Closed Borders Within Europe Unleash Congestion and Chaos

[PoS]

Closed Borders Within Europe Unleash Congestion and Chaos - The New York Times

The pledge that the movement of goods would not be interrupted by the measures appeared to be failing badly on Wednesday, especially in Hungary, the landlocked nation that has suddenly become a bottleneck in Europe. Prime Minister Viktor Orban carried through with his promise on Monday to close the borders to all foreign nationals — leaving road travelers stranded and fuming.
After many international airlines cut flights and the United States banned travel from most of Europe, plans were thrown into disarray and airports became scenes of panic and confusion. A similar scene has been playing out for days on a larger scale on European roads.
Bulgarians, Romanians, Serbians and Ukrainians on either side of the main Austria-Hungary crossing have left their cars and sat on the main road, preventing any vehicles from crossing in either direction in an effort to pressure the authorities to open the crossing.

Free movement of goods and people is a principle at the heart of the European Union, and a week ago, countries including Germany had derided President Trump’s decision to close the American borders to most of Europe. But as the number of infections has climbed worldwide — it was more than 200,000 by Wednesday — individual members of the 26 nations belonging to the borderless Schengen Agreement began throwing up controls and turning back nonresidents and others who were not able to prove a need to enter the countries.

Another nail in the EU coffin.

 

[Carjosse]

Closed Borders Within Europe Unleash Congestion and Chaos - The New York Times




Another nail in the EU coffin.

This would be a point in favour of the EU and the Schengen area no? All this highlights is the problems of having closed borders. Also this further goes to prove that despite being members of the EU all these nations maintain full sovereignty over their borders. You can't have your arguments both ways.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Closed Borders Within Europe Unleash Congestion and Chaos - The New York Times




Another nail in the EU coffin.

Schengen zone is different then the EU.

But still, I do wonder what long term effects the disease will have on the zone, although I don’t see how logically the disease is going to end it. Because if you’re an incubator for most viruses for several days up to a week you can easily pass a border checkpoint while looking healthy and get sick or contagious later.

I routinely cross the US Canadian border and it takes me like less then a minute. Last time I entered Canada my entire interview was like this

CBSA: good morning why are you coming to Canada?

Me: I’m meeting a friend in Canada (gives friends name)

CBSA: where did you meet her?

Me: gives name of location

CBSA: ok have a good day

If crossing hypothetical European borders were that easy it wouldn’t stop disease spread

 

[EMNofSeattle]

This would be a point in favour of the EU and the Schengen area no? All this highlights is the problems of having closed borders. Also this further goes to prove that despite being members of the EU all these nations maintain full sovereignty over their borders. You can't have your arguments both ways.

Well no it’s not a point in favor of the Schengen zone. At best it’s neutral. I think the Schengen zone certainly does permit the disease to spread faster.

Truly closed borders would likely stop or greatly reduce a disease spread, but that’s not politically feasible

 

[PeteEU]

Well no it’s not a point in favor of the Schengen zone. At best it’s neutral. I think the Schengen zone certainly does permit the disease to spread faster.

Truly closed borders would likely stop or greatly reduce a disease spread, but that’s not politically feasible

Horse****. There has not been true closed borders for 100s of years, with the exception of the Iron curtain. Borders were "close able" in 1918 and yet the Spanish flu spread like wildfire. The border system 500+ years ago did not stop the black plague.



Sent from my Honor 8X

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Horse****. There has not been true closed borders for 100s of years, with the exception of the Iron curtain. Borders were "close able" in 1918 and yet the Spanish flu spread like wildfire. The border system 500+ years ago did not stop the black plague.


Sent from my Honor 8X

The Spanish flu, was spread largely by soldiers who are being demobilize from wartime. The black plague bears almost no lessons on the efficacy of border control in the 21st-century. And you also kind of seized on three words that I said, without realizing that the point of my post was that the type of borders that would prevent disease or not politically realistic

 

[truthatallcost]

Horse****. There has not been true closed borders for 100s of years, with the exception of the Iron curtain. Borders were "close able" in 1918 and yet the Spanish flu spread like wildfire. The border system 500+ years ago did not stop the black plague.



Sent from my Honor 8X

The Spanish Flu spread throughout Europe because World War 1 was ongoing. The Plague was brought from the east on merchant ships and routes, eventually reaching England and Ireland, because trading merchants disobeyed orders to stop ships.

 

[Chagos]

What is currently happening is the "we-must-be-seen-to-be-doing-something" crowd confusing addition with multiplication.

Better said, the impact of either on infection rate.

Covid-19 is here and any individual addition from outside will show as being negligible in comparison to the infection rate and speed within any national border and among the "nationals" within.

Shutting oneself off in this manner is the old caveman reflex against "dem others from the outside" and where the individual cavemen band didn't have a widespread and interlocked economy (and could thus get away with it), we do.

One can maybe do this for 2 weeks, 4 weeks or six. But any longer will have the economy tanking and not just the own one.

All gubmints over here know this and none are prepared to keep this up. They're just not saying so right now.

 

[Chagos]

The Spanish flu could spread as much as it did due to the warring nations of WWI censoring practically any information about it. For the primary reason of not affecting (IOW upholding) fighting morale.

Only country not doing this was Spain (not a WWI participant) and that's how the epidemic was given its handle.

Regarding the (bubonic) plague, its spread to Western Europe had nothing to do with merchant traders disobeying orders to stop ships, simply because no such orders existed. By the time any such orders might have been given, it was already here and infections had been multiplying nicely. Quite apart from the fact that W-European nations didn't even know what it was (let alone where it originated).

All theories (some probable, some less so) were arrived at years later.

 

[Sven Karma]

Yeah, none of this would have happened if only the EU had a "wartime President" like Trump. Looking forward to the upcoming Presidential election being indefinitely postponed btw

 

[PoS]

This would be a point in favour of the EU and the Schengen area no? All this highlights is the problems of having closed borders. Also this further goes to prove that despite being members of the EU all these nations maintain full sovereignty over their borders. You can't have your arguments both ways.

How would that favor the EU? The philosophy behind it was always about open borders within the zone- now every country is scrambling to close their own local ones within it.

 

[PeteEU]

How would that favor the EU? The philosophy behind it was always about open borders within the zone- now every country is scrambling to close their own local ones within it.

God you really need to read up on the EU instead of spewing this continuous bull****.

Sent from my Honor 8X

 

[Jean-s]

How would that favor the EU? The philosophy behind it was always about open borders within the zone- now every country is scrambling to close their own local ones within it.

The more you write about the European Union, the more manifest is your ignorance. Not only are member states closing borders, even cities within the EU are on lockdown for citizens within countries. It has nothing to do with normal free movement of people and goods which remains a hallmark of the Union but these weeks are not normal times and jurisdictions at national and municipal levels are taking temporary and sensible precautions.

 

[Carjosse]

How would that favor the EU? The philosophy behind it was always about open borders within the zone- now every country is scrambling to close their own local ones within it.

Because this is pointing all the disruption closed borders cause. Also the EU is not the same as Schengen.

 

[PoS]

God you really need to read up on the EU instead of spewing this continuous bull****.

Sent from my Honor 8X

Wrong, the quote is right in the OP:

Free movement of goods and people is a principle at the heart of the European Union

The more you write about the European Union, the more manifest is your ignorance. Not only are member states closing borders, even cities within the EU are on lockdown for citizens within countries. It has nothing to do with normal free movement of people and goods which remains a hallmark of the Union but these weeks are not normal times and jurisdictions at national and municipal levels are taking temporary and sensible precautions.

LOL you just contradicted yourself from one sentence to the next. Typical European.:lamo

Because this is pointing all the disruption closed borders cause. Also the EU is not the same as Schengen.

Wrong again:

Schengen Area - Wikipedia

The Agreement and its related conventions were incorporated into the mainstream of European Union law by the Amsterdam Treaty in 1997, which came into effect in 1999.

 

[Carjosse]

Wrong, the quote is right in the OP:





LOL you just contradicted yourself from one sentence to the next. Typical European.:lamo



Wrong again:

Schengen Area - Wikipedia

Yes and see the chaos that happens without that free movement.

And I don't think you know what Schengen is, it may be part of EU law but not all members are part of Schengen and not all members of Schengen are part of the EU. Not even all areas of EU member states in Schengen have Schengen apply. And of course free movement of labour and goods has similar asterisks.

And I am not European.

 

[PoS]

Yes and see the chaos that happens without that free movement.

And I don't think you know what Schengen is, it may be part of EU law but not all members are part of Schengen and not all members of Schengen are part of the EU. Not even all areas of EU member states in Schengen have Schengen apply. And of course free movement of labour and goods has similar asterisks.

I know exactly what Shengen is- and your whole point is a non-sequitur since most of it is covered by the EU and the principles of freedom of movement are the same.

And I am not European.

I was not addressing you- I qouted 2 others- did you not read their names and instead just read the quotes? I hope thats not a product of your Canuck education...