Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly.....[W:696:1188]

TheNextEra · Apr 29, 2014

Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

mac said:
Look, welfare has been around since the 60s. Since then, the poverty rate has remained about the same while the number of single parent families has soared. Welfare is a trap that the unwitting, though thoroughly responsible, fall into. Once in, they find that they cannot get out because it simply makes no economic sense to take the kind of job they can get over taking welfare. So, no matter who's fault it is, once on welfare, it is incredibly difficult to get off it. If it didn't exist, they wouldn't be trapped into it.

You are again dodging the person and trying to lay blame to a system. Much like the left has done with blaming guns instead of the person, you are blaming welfare instead of the person.

If a person wanted to get off welfare the right CONSTANTLY says they are able to. So it's not welfare, its the person.

mac · Apr 29, 2014

Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

TheNextEra said:
According to the right a person can get off welfare if they really wanted to. Again, personal responsibility. So you are again dodging the person and trying to lay blame. Much like the left has done with blaming guns instead of the person, you are blaming welfare instead of the person.

I'm not blaming welfare instead of the person. The person has a choice. What I'm saying is that the choice is a trap that they didn't expect.

TheNextEra · Apr 29, 2014

Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

mac said:
I'm not blaming welfare instead of the person. The person has a choice. What I'm saying is that the choice is a trap that they didn't expect.

Oh come on, "a trap they didn't expect"? What "traps" them?

mac · Apr 29, 2014

Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

TheNextEra said:
Oh come on, "a trap they didn't expect"? What "traps" them?

The fact that they can get as much from welfare, or very nearly as much (sometimes more), as they could at any job they're likely to qualify for. Then their children who, are raised on welfare, come to know it as a way of life...normal...what they are supposed to do.

I personally know people that are third and fourth generation welfare recipients.

TheNextEra · Apr 29, 2014

Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

mac said:
The fact that they can get as much from welfare, or very nearly as much (sometimes more), as they could at any job they're likely to qualify for. Then their children who, are raised on welfare, come to know it as a way of life...normal...what they are supposed to do.

I personally know people that are third and fourth generation welfare recipients.

Again, that's not a trap, that's an abuse of the system BY THE PERSON. Not the systems fault, it is the person's own fault and noone else's.

Excon · Apr 29, 2014

Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

reconmark said:
As I prefaced my earlier post.

Yes a meaningless preface.
What is funny is you speaking about prefacing, when what Bundy clearly stated, "we sure don’t want the colored people to go back to that point;".
And yet you ignore the content and context of his words to make false claims of racism.

reconmark said:
As I prefaced my earlier post. "Would you have the intellectual honesty when proven wrong?"
Well, you have shown everyone that you do not.

You speaking about intellectual honesty? What a laugh. :lamo
Especially as you are worong.
You have not shown what you claim, because you can not as his comments were not racist.
Your claim is false.

reconmark said:
Write as many irrational flailing's as you like, it's obvious to anyone reasonable that I proved you wrong.
I used the definition of racism that YOU provided and made the factual point,.

iLOL :doh
:lamo
You proved your self wrong.
His comments were not racist.

AJiveMan · Apr 30, 2014

Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

upsideguy said:
Only if you take things out of context..... the suggestion was that Cliven racism is somewhat explainable as he is an uneducated man. Someone made an assertion that educated people (would not be racist; not likely be racist; less likely racist.... not certain as to the exact assertion). I was only pointing that educated people can be racist.

Fine to somewhat noble for you to be the last man standing in protecting the reputation of Sterling. I do want to point that the NBA, which likely has more information about the matter than just about anyone else, is much further down that tracks than you. As you stand on the platform waiting for the next train you should ask yourself if protecting Sterling's reputation is out of your nobility; your naivete or you have a habit of defending racists...

My post was posted before the NBA decided it was really, authentically Sterling's voice, up until that point, it was anyone's guess whose voice it was, which is why I was reserved in passing judgement upon someone based on what could have been heresay or a doctored voice recording. Sorry to burst your bubble, but no, I do not support racists or racism.

Yes, I alluded earlier or in another thread that Bundy was an uneducated man, and stated I thought he'd only gotten an 8th. education, but someone wanted links to try to make me prove that was his highest level of education.

I believe that these old men, Bundy and Sterling alike have not evolved and never will, it is in their minds that their dislike or hatred is inbred deep within them. They still believe that they're actually living in pre 1960's era, where all the old racists never got out of or away from their prejudices.

Let's not kid ourselves with the wealthy vs. poor racists, there racists that come from all walks of life. Being that Bundy and Sterling are not poor, one would think they'd be educated enough, to make a wild guess and have some deeper thoughts than to open their mouths like sewers and spew the crap that they did. I would think that a wealthy person would have attained an education sufficient enough to better themselves, but, after hearing remarks from both of these men, I can see that is not the case.

The Mark · Apr 30, 2014

Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

Excon said:
I'm sure you did. :doh

Well...yeah? Why else would I say that I did?

Excon said:
Wtf?
Out of context.
It is more than apparent he is speaking to those in the welfare state.

Do you honestly think he was addressing those who weren't?
I would hope not as that would be out of context.
And yet here you are suggesting exactly that. :doh

It was not apparent to me - my take was that he thought most/all black persons were in the welfare state, which is only one of the faulty assumptions/stereotypes he had a basis for his remarks.

Excon said:
Which is really asinine given the fact of content of context of what he said.
He was speaking concern, not hatred, intolerance or disparagement.

He wasn't intentionally disparaging. But his assumptions were disparaging.

Excon said:
Which is really asinine given the fact of content of context of what he said. Nothing he said was racist.
He was speaking concern, not hatred, intolerance or disparagement.

See above.

Excon said:
How absurd. He didn't use it to disparage. In content and context there was no disparagement.

I can only tell you what my take on his remarks was. I felt that he was unintentionally disparaging of black persons.

j-mac · Apr 30, 2014

Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

HolyBull said:
I attack bigoted behavior wherever I see it. Why should I defend people who do nothing but harm my cause and violate basic ethical principles?

Like I don't particularly care for all of this hoopla over Mr. Bundy's remarks. There are more important issues involved with his story than what he thinks about "the negro," and his opinion, from the extended transcript, is a fairly common conservative one made more offensive by antiquated language and a poor understanding of history. Rubbing all this in conservatives' faces is a pointless waste of time, since it has no bearing on why so many conservatives initially supported Bundy.

As for Steele, for what it's worth, there are too many revisions and conflicting versions to the story for me to make any final judgment. I'll choose to take Steele's word that he was never hit with an Oreo, but he did see two of them on the ground, and that the motives of the Oreo-droppers are unknown. I still don't know how this pertains to Keyes's treatment by the media and the general liberal sphere.

Well, I am trying to highlight that this racist crap happens all too often, especially when demo's believe that a black man has, or is a conservative...Steele was an example that came to mind because for 20 years, and during that flap, I lived in Harford County Maryland, and I remember it.

But here is the point I am getting at...When it does happen to conservative black politicians by demo's, it is often denied, or dismissed as not a racial attack at all...while in the inverse, the very same people often come out and are the first to scream racism....Take this for example...

WASHINGTON -- Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.) says a new campaign ad depicting him punching white women in the face fuels racist stereotypes and would spark "national outrage" if he weren't a black conservative. But an NAACP spokesman begs to differ.

The ad, released Thursday by American Sunrise PAC, features a cartoon version of West punching an elderly woman in a boxing ring as a narrator says West "socked it to seniors" by pushing to gut Medicare. It also shows West punching a younger woman as the narrator criticizes West's support for cuts to women's health care funding. Both women are white.

West said Friday that people across the country would be furious if the ad depicted a white man punching a woman of color, but because he is African American and a Republican, nobody is offended by it.

"There would be national outrage," West said in an interview on Fox News. "That's part of the duplicitous hypocrisy that comes with the liberal left. They believe that they can do anything, especially if you're a black conservative."

The Florida Republican specifically said news outlets like The Huffington Post would be "apoplectic" if a conservative PAC ran an ad with a black Democratic politician punching a white woman. He also called out civil rights leaders for not speaking up.

"Where's the outrage from Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and the NAACP about this?" West asked. "They're not going to say anything because they're nothing but an effective wing of the Democratic Party."

snip

But NAACP spokesman Hilary Shelton said he watched the ad several times, specifically looking for the concerns raised by West, and saw nothing.

snip

The NAACP spokesman said the demographics of the people in the ad accurately represent the make-up of West's district, which makes the ad "fair game" in the midst of 2012 politicking. He also dismissed the idea that the ad is offensive to women.

Allen West Says Ad Showing Him Punching White Women Is Racist, But NAACP Disagrees

I mean....Come on!

Excon · Apr 30, 2014

Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

The Mark said:
Well...yeah? Why else would I say that I did?

Like I said. I am sure you did.
:doh

The Mark said:
It was not apparent to me - my take was that he thought most/all black persons were in the welfare state, which is only one of the faulty assumptions/stereotypes he had a basis for his remarks.

It is more than apparent in context.

The Mark said:
He wasn't intentionally disparaging. But his assumptions were disparaging.

Bs!
Context matters.
He was not disparaging.
He was speaking of concern.

The Mark said:
See above.

See answer above.

The Mark said:
I can only tell you what my take on his remarks was. I felt that he was unintentionally disparaging of black persons.

And that is a result of taking his comments out of context.
He comments were of concern. There was no hatred, intolerance or disparagement spoken.

The Mark · Apr 30, 2014

Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

Excon said:
Like I said. I am sure you did.
:doh

It is more than apparent in context.

Bs!
Context matters.
He was not disparaging.
He was speaking of concern.

See answer above.

And that is a result of taking his comments out of context.
He comments were of concern. There was no hatred, intolerance or disparagement spoken.

Look.

I listened to him talk, and read a transcript.

What I'm saying is what I heard in context.
So enough with the out of context BS.

I'm talking the overall gist of his remarks here, as I heard/saw them.

He was well-meaning but ultimately, and unwittingly, disparaging of black persons.

And as a result, unwittingly racist.

Obviously, my understanding could be flawed, just as yours could be.

HolyBull · Apr 30, 2014

Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

j-mac said:
Well, I am trying to highlight that this racist crap happens all too often, especially when demo's believe that a black man has, or is a conservative...Steele was an example that came to mind because for 20 years, and during that flap, I lived in Harford County Maryland, and I remember it.

But here is the point I am getting at...When it does happen to conservative black politicians by demo's, it is often denied, or dismissed as not a racial attack at all...while in the inverse, the very same people often come out and are the first to scream racism....Take this for example...

I mean....Come on!

That ad would be out of line even if it were depicting a white man punching women. Like I said, I never deny that there is bad behavior coming from all directions. People are weird animals and there is never going to be perfect morality when a bunch of them group up against each other.

What I take exception to is the idea that if I or someone like me dislikes Keyes or Steele, it must be because I see him as a traitor to African Americans. It's the same junk that sometimes gets pulled with Obama's detractors. I'd guess that there are marginally more racists in the conservative ranks than in the liberal ones, but it doesn't represent the view of the majority of either, so why can't we all just condemn the idiots when they open their mouths and get back to the stuff we actually disagree about?

Excon · Apr 30, 2014

Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

The Mark said:
What I'm saying is what I heard in context.
So enough with the out of context BS.

No. Then you are hearing what you want to here.
His comments were not racist.
He expressed concern, not hatred, intolerance or disparagement.
Claiming otherwise is false.

The Mark said:
I'm talking the overall gist of his remarks here, as I heard/saw them.

The overall gist is that of concern, not any make believe racism.

The Mark said:
but ultimately, and unwittingly, disparaging of black persons.

And as a result, unwittingly racist.

Wrong. Just simply wrong.
He expressed concern, not hatred, intolerance or disparagement.
Claiming he did is absurd.

The Mark said:
Obviously, my understanding could be flawed, just as yours could be.

His stating that we do not want to go back to that are not the words of a racist.
There is no misunderstanding in that.

j-mac · Apr 30, 2014

Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

HolyBull said:
That ad would be out of line even if it were depicting a white man punching women. Like I said, I never deny that there is bad behavior coming from all directions. People are weird animals and there is never going to be perfect morality when a bunch of them group up against each other.

What I take exception to is the idea that if I or someone like me dislikes Keyes or Steele, it must be because I see him as a traitor to African Americans. It's the same junk that sometimes gets pulled with Obama's detractors. I'd guess that there are marginally more racists in the conservative ranks than in the liberal ones, but it doesn't represent the view of the majority of either, so why can't we all just condemn the idiots when they open their mouths and get back to the stuff we actually disagree about?

I am with you right up to the point that you say what I put in bold.....I would prefer if we just leave it at there being racists in Both parties. Not, that one group has more than another....That leaves it open to people just painting an entire group....

Besides, why do you think that there are more in the republican party, than in the demo party? Have you personally done a survey?

The Mark · Apr 30, 2014

Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

Excon said:
No. Then you are hearing what you want to here.
His comments were not racist.
He expressed concern, not hatred, intolerance or disparagement.
Claiming otherwise is false.

The overall gist is that of concern, not any make believe racism.

Wrong. Just simply wrong.
He expressed concern, not hatred, intolerance or disparagement.
Claiming he did is absurd.

His stating that we do not want to go back to that are not the words of a racist.
There is no misunderstanding in that.

I never said that he knew he was racist. Or even had any intent to disparage.

Excon · Apr 30, 2014

Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

The Mark said:
I never said that he knew he was racist.

Of course you didn't because he isn't a racist and didn't say anything racist.

The Mark · Apr 30, 2014

Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

Excon said:
Of course you didn't because he isn't a racist and didn't say anything racist.

Agree on first, disagree on second.

Excon · Apr 30, 2014

Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

The Mark said:
disagree on second.

Which is why you are wrong.

The Mark · Apr 30, 2014

Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

Excon said:
Which is why you are wrong.

And why I think you're wrong.

Excon · Apr 30, 2014

Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

The Mark said:
And why I think you're wrong.

As your thinking has already been shown to be flawed ... :lamo

The Mark · Apr 30, 2014

Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

Excon said:
As your thinking has already been shown to be flawed ... :lamo

By whom?

Excon · Apr 30, 2014

Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

The Mark said:
By whom?

By Bundy's words in context.

Excon · Apr 30, 2014

Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

reconmark said:
Yada, yada, the last words of a man drowning. Keep flailing, maybe, just maybe you'll come off as informed and rational.

Done with you, I made a statement and in the end you had to agree with it. At least you had the intellectual honesty to support my statement, too bad you had to ruin it with the pride of the foolish.

No need for further back and forth, you can leave now.

:slapme:

The only one drowning has been you.

Thanks for providing the updated information showing that by respective population, blacks make up a disproportionately higher number on welfare than whites.
iLOL
:lamo:lamo:lamo

Buck Ewer said:
You are wrong again.
It was specific commenting of an entire race of people "The negro".
That is the way racists speak.
That is racism .
Bundy is a racist.

Wrong again. Do try to get it right next time.
His comments were not racist.
They were not disparaging, or of hatred or intolerance. For you to keep claiming such is absurd.

Buck Ewer said:
We are speaking to people who are so used to the commonality of a racist way of speaking that they do not recognize it as such when they see it.

More absurdity on your part.
His comments were not racist.

reconmark · Apr 30, 2014

Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

Excon said:
:slapme:

The only one drowning has been you.

Thanks for providing the updated information showing that by respective population, blacks make up a disproportionately higher number on welfare than whites.
iLOL
:lamo:lamo:lamo

Wrong again. Do try to get it right next time.
His comments were not racist.
They were not disparaging, or of hatred or intolerance. For you to keep claiming such is absurd.

More absurdity on your part.
His comments were not racist.

Just accept the fact you lost this and run along...

Excon · Apr 30, 2014

Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

reconmark said:
Just accept the fact you lost this and run along...

You arte the one who lost. Especially as your argument is dishonest.
And I just discovered that your snap benefits stats were old than the ones I provided. Go figure.

Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly.....[W:696:1188]

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Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly.....[W:696:1188]

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