Climate Change- does its cause matter

[grip]

Record heatwaves sweep the world from US to Japan via Europe

Record heat is forecast around the world from the United States, where tens of millions are battling dangerously high temperatures, to Europe and Japan, in the latest example of the threat from global warming. Italy faces weekend predictions of historic highs with the health ministry issuing a...

news.yahoo.com

Whether climate change is manmade or not, it's becoming obvious that we need to try and mitigate its impact on our environment in any way we can.

 

[Slavister]

Whether climate change is manmade or not, it's becoming obvious that we need to try and mitigate its impact on our environment in any way we can.

If people don't think their cars and other uses of fossil fuels causes it, they are not going to want to move away from those / reduce their standard of living.

 

[MamboDervish]

Whether climate change is manmade or not, it's becoming obvious that we need to try and mitigate its impact on our environment in any way we can.

And no less important is trying to mitigate the pollution to our planet from fossil fuels, even if they had no effect on AGW. Why anybody, even AGW deniers, bends over backward for the fossil fuel industry, has always been a head shaker to me. What are they thinking?

 

[The Stars Tremble]

If people don't think their cars and other uses of fossil fuels causes it, they are not going to want to move away from those / reduce their standard of living.

I think maybe you have that the wrong way around.

Suppose there was a known, but non-human cause of global warming. Aliens perhaps. Wouldn't people be more motivated to "fight back" than if they were just motivated by a bad conscience?

I'm cynical, I know. But it's my experience that bad conscience usually leads to denial and doubling down. While an external threat is more likely to cause altruism.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Record heatwaves sweep the world from US to Japan via Europe

Record heat is forecast around the world from the United States, where tens of millions are battling dangerously high temperatures, to Europe and Japan, in the latest example of the threat from global warming. Italy faces weekend predictions of historic highs with the health ministry issuing a...

news.yahoo.com

Whether climate change is manmade or not, it's becoming obvious that we need to try and mitigate its impact on our environment in any way we can.

I guess that means exaggeration and hiding the facts that don't support the climate extremist claims.

 

[OrphanSlug]

We are going to need much more soup and paint to throw.

 

[Slavister]

I think maybe you have that the wrong way around.

Suppose there was a known, but non-human cause of global warming. Aliens perhaps. Wouldn't people be more motivated to "fight back" than if they were just motivated by a bad conscience?

I'm cynical, I know. But it's my experience that bad conscience usually leads to denial and doubling down. While an external threat is more likely to cause altruism.

Not really following your point. Mine (and maybe yours) is that if people don't believe in the cause of the warming they won't fight it accordingly. Especially if that fight means their standard of living has to be sacrificed to some degree.

 

[Mr Person]

Obviously it matters. The cause plays a big role in determining what to do about it.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

And no less important is trying to mitigate the pollution to our planet from fossil fuels, even if they had no effect on AGW. Why anybody, even AGW deniers, bends over backward for the fossil fuel industry, has always been a head shaker to me. What are they thinking?

Don't bite the hard that feeds you. And therefore, don't bite the hand which feeds your car.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

Not really following your point. Mine (and maybe yours) is that if people don't believe in the cause of the warming they won't fight it accordingly. Especially if that fight means their standard of living has to be sacrificed to some degree.

We disagree about human nature. I think most people are more motivated to make sacrifices, in opposition to a common enemy. Compared to admitting they're part of the problem and should cut back.

By analogy, consider the gap between rich and poor. This is absolutely terrible for the poor, even if they're only relatively poor. It makes them feel like shit when they work 50 hours a week or more, and still can't put good food on their family's table. "Good" of course being relative, but can you blame them for comparing themselves to the rich? Their work is undervalued, and that makes them feel undervalued.

Now this problem could be easily solved, by the rich. But do the rich give away their money to solve the problem? Do they in your words "sacrifice their standard of living"? No of course not. There is no external enemy causing them to take the side of the poor. Their attitude to the poor is at best, one of benign neglect. "Your problem buddy."

Globally, there is a strong correlation between poverty and being victims of climate change. The global rich can move to currently cold areas, or even to polar areas if shit gets real bad. The poor are stuck in the tropics, where monsoons may collapse, rain fall on deserts where it will achieve nothing without artificial fertilizers, new deserts made of formerly forested or agrarian land. Tropical diseases will increase.

If the rich won't take responsibility for poverty in their own countries, what makes you think the global rich will take responsibility for starvation and disease in parts of the world they already regard as "shitholes"? They will blame anyone, and everyone, before they blame themselves.

 

[Port & Starboard]

Record heatwaves sweep the world from US to Japan via Europe

Record heat is forecast around the world from the United States, where tens of millions are battling dangerously high temperatures, to Europe and Japan, in the latest example of the threat from global warming. Italy faces weekend predictions of historic highs with the health ministry issuing a...

news.yahoo.com

Whether climate change is manmade or not, it's becoming obvious that we need to try and mitigate its impact on our environment in any way we can.

I agree.

I also love renewable energy to help lessen our carbon footprint..........................................but with a better thought out phasing in period.

 

[Slavister]

If the rich won't take responsibility for poverty in their own countries, what makes you think the global rich will take responsibility for starvation and disease in parts of the world they already regard as "shitholes"? They will blame anyone, and everyone, before they blame themselves.

Well the poor in the democratic countries can go ahead and vote for the greenest parties out there to try and fix this. Yet they don't seem to. E.g. in US, a lot of poor vote for the least environmentally friendly party, the GOP.

 

[ralfy]

If you want to mitigate it, then the cause obviously matters.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Record heatwaves sweep the world from US to Japan via Europe

Record heat is forecast around the world from the United States, where tens of millions are battling dangerously high temperatures, to Europe and Japan, in the latest example of the threat from global warming. Italy faces weekend predictions of historic highs with the health ministry issuing a...

news.yahoo.com

Whether climate change is manmade or not, it's becoming obvious that we need to try and mitigate its impact on our environment in any way we can.

Is the climate overall really warming?

We have snow melt primarily by pollutants we put in the atmosphere, which deposit on the snow and ice. This causes the albedo to be reduced. A reduced albedo absorbs more solar energy. this causes an acceleration of the ice melting.

As for cities, the residents see increasing temperatures as the populations and city sizes grow. There is a change albedo, emissivity, and evaporation cooling. To add, nearly all monitoring stations across the world are within the influence of the urban heat island effect. It is impossible to correctly adjust the city influence out to know what the warming really is globally. It's just a guess.

Precipitation patterns are affected by pollutants in the atmosphere and windmills.

Land use changes cause known flood planes to be worse, because we almost always restrict the natural flow of know high river flow events. this is not climate change. It is land use change.

There is another thing i was going to mention, but my train of though was derailed...

Anyway, this once again, leads to where I will say we need to address the problems most easily fixed first lake restructuring the way we do land use changes, and stop polluting the environment. these are inexpensive compared to limiting CO2. We can then assess the environment to see if more action is needed.

 

[Lord of Planar]

And no less important is trying to mitigate the pollution to our planet from fossil fuels, even if they had no effect on AGW. Why anybody, even AGW deniers, bends over backward for the fossil fuel industry, has always been a head shaker to me. What are they thinking?

Bigotry against those you incorrectly call deniers does not help the discussion.

 

[Germinator]

Record heatwaves sweep the world from US to Japan via Europe

Record heat is forecast around the world from the United States, where tens of millions are battling dangerously high temperatures, to Europe and Japan, in the latest example of the threat from global warming. Italy faces weekend predictions of historic highs with the health ministry issuing a...

news.yahoo.com

Whether climate change is manmade or not, it's becoming obvious that we need to try and mitigate its impact on our environment in any way we can.

Is the climate overall really warming?

as long as misleading stories about climate change circulate on the internet and have large number of "believers" of alternative climate science facts (for example)

http://www.infowars.com/posts/flash...solar-orbit-not-because-of-suvs-fossil-fuels/

there will not be the political will to "try and mitigate its impact on our environment"

seems the only hope to "try and mitigate its impact on our environment" is to educate "believers" of alternative facts, with a story "believers" of alternative science facts can support and perhaps relate to,... (for example)

 

[Lord of Planar]

as long as misleading stories about climate change circulate on the internet and have large number of "believers" of alternative climate science facts (for example)

http://www.infowars.com/posts/flash...solar-orbit-not-because-of-suvs-fossil-fuels/

there will not be the political will to "try and mitigate its impact on our environment"

seems the only hope to "try and mitigate its impact on our environment" is to educate "believers" of alternative facts, with a story "believers" of alternative science facts can support and perhaps relate to,... (for example)

I'm sorry, but Infowars is not a good source. Especially when it refers to another activist entity and a NASA source is no where too be found.

Material like this does not help. People just laugh.

 

[MamboDervish]

Bigotry against those you incorrectly call deniers does not help the discussion.

I don't call anyone anything incorrectly. If they deny AGW, then they are a denier - by definition.

That's not bigotry - that's accuracy.

 

[watsup]

I guess that means exaggeration and hiding the facts that don't support the climate extremist claims.

What facts might that be?

 

[watsup]

Bigotry against those you incorrectly call deniers does not help the discussion.

And yet more psychological projection.

 

[watsup]

Material like this does not help. People just laugh.

See post #20.

 

[longview]

I don't call anyone anything incorrectly. If they deny AGW, then they are a denier - by definition.

That's not bigotry - that's accuracy.

Who here is actually denying that Human activity can change the climate?
There is quite a bit of evidence that earlier pollution, was cooling the planet.
This continued until about 1985, when our efforts allowed more of the available
sunlight to reach the ground.
From Dimming to Brightening: Decadal Changes in Solar Radiation at Earth's Surface
What you are calling a denier, is someone who does not accept all the catastrophic predictions,
but if one reads the actual peer reviewed studies, they can grasp the full width of the uncertainties expressed.
Some of it is simple, Which computer simulation was run, ECS, TCR, TCRe, etc?
Some of it is more complex, like are clouds a net positive or negative feedback.

 

[MamboDervish]

Who here is actually denying that Human activity can change the climate?

I don't recall saying anyone was. That was Lord of the Planar's fantasy.

What you are calling a denier, is someone who does not accept all the catastrophic predictions, ...

Wrong. As I've stated quite clearly above, what I am calling a denier is someone who denies AGW.

 

[Lord of Planar]

I don't recall saying anyone was. That was Lord of the Planar's fantasy.

Bullshit.

Wrong. As I've stated quite clearly above, what I am calling a denier is someone who denies AGW.

Nobody here does that.

 

[PoS]

Record heatwaves sweep the world from US to Japan via Europe

Record heat is forecast around the world from the United States, where tens of millions are battling dangerously high temperatures, to Europe and Japan, in the latest example of the threat from global warming. Italy faces weekend predictions of historic highs with the health ministry issuing a...

news.yahoo.com

Whether climate change is manmade or not, it's becoming obvious that we need to try and mitigate its impact on our environment in any way we can.

If CC isnt manmade, then its dubious we can affect it. This is the reason why climate cultists convince themselves of human guilt- because if its natural, then what we do doesnt matter.