Class Wars vs. Culture Wars (2 Viewers)

[Questerr]

You mean the state should get a portion of it. What percentage should the state take from my lifetime of work?

Depends of how much we’re talking about. For over a billion dollars, I’d say at least 50%.

 

[aociswundumho]

There is a happy medium between $78 / hour for working at a pizza shop and being paid $14 / hour, right?

This doesn't even come close to answering my question. Are you now saying that it's ok for the employer to keep some of the value produced by the employee?

 

[Lord of Planar]

Which war is more important, and impacts you and your family and friends more?

Class War: In political science, the term class conflict or class struggle refers to the economic antagonism and political tension that exist among social classes because of clashing interests, competition for limited resources, and inequalities of power in the socioeconomic hierarchy.[1] In its simplest manifestation, class conflict refers to the ongoing battle between the rich and poor.[2]

(Examples I would include: Tax cuts for the rich; health insurance profits at the expense of denial of coverage, union busting, corruption of politicians through legalized bribery)

Culture War: A culture war is a form of cultural conflict (metaphorical "war") between different social groups who struggle to politically impose their own ideology (moral beliefs, humane virtues, religious practices) upon mainstream society,[1][2] or upon the other. In political usage, the term culture war is a metaphor for "hot-button" politics about values and ideologies, realized with intentionally adversarial social narratives meant to provoke political polarization among the mainstream of society over economic matters of[3][4] public policy[5] and of consumption.[1] As practical politics, a culture war is about social policy wedge issues that are based on abstract arguments about values, morality, and lifestyle meant to provoke political cleavage in a multicultural society.[2]

(Examples I would include: LGBTQ rights, 'wokeism', general equality)

Only losers start either war.

 

[aociswundumho]

Because the rich in that country bribe the government to use violence to crush unionization efforts? We should definitely get rid of the government and the let the rich just employ those violent actors themselves. That will be better, right?

Could you just answer the question for once?

 

[Dans La Lune]

I have news for capitalists: If people are happy and healthy and can sustain a living for their family, they are less inclined to ask for more.

This doesn't even come close to answering my question. Are you now saying that it's ok for the employer to keep some of the value produced by the employee?

Sure it does. There is fair compensation for running a business and there's just unfair exploitation. Would you say earning 10% of your actual value is on the fair or unfair side of the spectrum?

 

[Dans La Lune]

Only losers start either war.

So you're saying the right-wing are losers. Got it.

 

[Questerr]

Could you just answer the question for once?

The “best option” in the third world being working like a slave in a sweatshop exists because of capitalist coercion.

 

[Rogue Valley]

More Billionaire Wealth Achieved Through Inheritance, Overtaking Entrepreneurship

A new UBS report shows that new billionaires in 2023 accumulated the majority of wealth by inheritance, not entrepreneurship, a trend that wealth managers see continuing.

www.investopedia.com

Where do billionaires come from? Mom and Dad.

The great billionaire wealth transfer means people born very, very rich are going to stay very, very rich.

www.vox.com

Billionaires amass more through inheritance than wealth creation, says UBS

A survey of the global elite shows the ‘great transfer’ between generations has overtaken entrepreneurship

www.ft.com

Report: Silver Spoon Oligarchs: How America’s 50 Largest Inherited-Wealth Dynasties Accelerate Inequality

Fifty dynastic billionaire families hold as much wealth as the bottom half of U.S. families. Their wealth grew at ten times the rate of ordinary families over the last 40 years.

inequality.org

 

[aociswundumho]

Would you say earning 10% of your actual value is on the fair or unfair side of the spectrum?

You're asking if it's fair to sell your labor for 10% of its actual value.

Replace labor with car or house and see if that makes any sense.

 

[devildavid]

Why not? I thought capitalists were greedy?



Then why do some people have extremely high salaries?

Heck, why do capitalists pay any more than the legal minimum for all jobs?

Never said capitalists were greedy. Capitalism seeks to exploit labor to the greatest extent that it can. Capitalists can collude on labor costs when it is mutually beneficial.

There is no one reason why people have high salaries. But it isn’t always about their real value to the success of a company.

Capitalists pay what they can get away with paying and still run a successful business.

 

[Questerr]

You're asking if it's fair to sell your labor for 10% of its actual value.

Replace labor with car or house and see if that makes any sense.

There’s no unequal power in the parties negotiating the value of the sale of labor is there?

On one side is a company worth millions or billions of dollars and on the other side is a worker who might be homeless or starve or die from lack of healthcare if they don’t take whatever the company offers.

Your position on this is as nonsense as thinking people will be able to negotiate the price of healthcare and price discriminate on which hospital treats them when they are actively dying from an injury.

 

[jaypatriot]

Which war is more important, and impacts you and your family and friends more?

Class War: In political science, the term class conflict or class struggle refers to the economic antagonism and political tension that exist among social classes because of clashing interests, competition for limited resources, and inequalities of power in the socioeconomic hierarchy.[1] In its simplest manifestation, class conflict refers to the ongoing battle between the rich and poor.[2]

(Examples I would include: Tax cuts for the rich; health insurance profits at the expense of denial of coverage, union busting, corruption of politicians through legalized bribery)

Culture War: A culture war is a form of cultural conflict (metaphorical "war") between different social groups who struggle to politically impose their own ideology (moral beliefs, humane virtues, religious practices) upon mainstream society,[1][2] or upon the other. In political usage, the term culture war is a metaphor for "hot-button" politics about values and ideologies, realized with intentionally adversarial social narratives meant to provoke political polarization among the mainstream of society over economic matters of[3][4] public policy[5] and of consumption.[1] As practical politics, a culture war is about social policy wedge issues that are based on abstract arguments about values, morality, and lifestyle meant to provoke political cleavage in a multicultural society.[2]

(Examples I would include: LGBTQ rights, 'wokeism', general equality)

"A wedge issue in politics is any issue used to create a division within a political party. These issues are usually employed as a tactic by a minority party against a governing majority party, with the aim of splitting the majority's electorate into two or more camps"

I like this conclusion regarding culture war:
"As practical politics, a culture war is about social policy wedge issues that are based on abstract arguments about values, morality, and lifestyle meant to provoke political cleavage in a multicultural society.
(Examples I would include: LGBTQ rights, 'wokeism', general equality)"

Typical Progressive wedge issues are transgenderism, wealth inequality, deportation of criminal migrants, racism, critical race theory, and anti-Semitism.
These issues are consistently dividing the country to the benefit of enemies like Russia and China.

 

[devildavid]

You mean the state should get a portion of it. What percentage should the state take from my lifetime of work?

Whatever is needed for the infrastructure that aided in your work and kept you safe and secure.

 

[Questerr]

"A wedge issue in politics is any issue used to create a division within a political party. These issues are usually employed as a tactic by a minority party against a governing majority party, with the aim of splitting the majority's electorate into two or more camps"

I like this conclusion regarding culture war:
"As practical politics, a culture war is about social policy wedge issues that are based on abstract arguments about values, morality, and lifestyle meant to provoke political cleavage in a multicultural society.
(Examples I would include: LGBTQ rights, 'wokeism', general equality)"

Typical Progressive wedge issues are transgenderism, wealth inequality, deportation of criminal migrants, racism, critical race theory, and anti-Semitism.
These issues are consistently dividing the country to the benefit of enemies like Russia and China.

Why are trans people, non-white people, and Jews a “wedge issue” for conservatives? Do they hate them or something?

 

[aociswundumho]

On one side is a company worth millions or billions of dollars and on the other side is a worker who might be homeless or starve or die from lack of healthcare if they don’t take whatever the company offers.

I agree that's often the case in the third world.

Nevertheless, a low wage is better than no wage.

is a worker who might be homeless or starve or die from lack of healthcare if they don’t take whatever the company offers.

Therefore if you prevent the "exploitation", the person dies. If you prevent them from working for that low wage, then you are morally culpable for their death.

 

[Questerr]

I agree that's often the case in the third world.

Nevertheless, a low wage is better than no wage.



Therefore if you prevent the "exploitation", the person dies. If you prevent them from working for that low wage, then you are morally culpable for their death.

Why isn’t it the case in the first world? Is it because we have government programs that prevent people from starving just because they are unemployed alongside other forms of social welfare?

All things you want to not exist.

Instead, society could force the capitalist to provide a higher wage at the expense of their profits. But capitalists would rather kill workers trying to unionize than do that.

 

[Lord of Planar]

So you're saying the right-wing are losers. Got it.

What do they start?

 

[Questerr]

What do they start?

Culture wars.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Culture wars.

Nope. It is the left constantly doing that. The right has to defend against the left.

I cannot think of any examples, so tell me.

 

[Questerr]

Nope. It is the left constantly doing that. the right has to defend against the left.

I cannot think of any examples, so tell me.

The Left wants people to be treated normally like everyone else. It’s the Right that consistently fights back and wants unequal treatment.

 

[Lord of Planar]

The Left wants people to be treated normally like everyone else.

Too general. I can assume several things, still their fault.

It’s the Right that consistently fights back and wants unequal treatment.

"fights back." Yes. In defense from being attacked.

 

[Questerr]

Too general. I can assume several things, still their fault.

"fights back." Yes. In defense from being attacked.

How are conservatives “attacked” by trans or gay people being allowed to exist in society without oppression?

 

[Lord of Planar]

How are conservatives “attacked” by trans or gay people being allowed to exist in society without oppression?

Attack those who do the oppression. Stop attack all the right.

Who oppresses them and how? they are free just like everyone else.

Are you expecting "special rights?"

 

[Questerr]

Attack those who do the oppression. Stop attack all the right.

Who oppresses them and how? they are free just like everyone else.

Are you expecting "special rights?"

It’s not a special right to allow women to use women’s restrooms.

The Right pushes for oppression of LGBTQ people. Hell, there are conservatives right now who want Lawrence v Texas overturned so they can go back to putting gay people in prison.

 

[Lord of Planar]

It’s not a special right to allow women to use women’s restrooms.

Duh. But a man dressed as a women is not as woman. In adult situations, not so bad, but owners of establishments have rights too. You cannot demand other people be denied their rights to satisfy another, and that is what happens.

In schools, it is not acceptable.

You are demanding special rights above others.

The Right pushes for oppression of LGBTQ people. Hell, there are conservatives right now who want Lawrence v Texas overturned so they can go back to putting gay people in prison.

This is the push back, caused by what the left does. They are in defense mode. Not the aggressors.

Stop and think for a moment, the perspective of the other side.