Class Wars vs. Culture Wars

[Dans La Lune]

Which war is more important, and impacts you and your family and friends more?

Class War: In political science, the term class conflict or class struggle refers to the economic antagonism and political tension that exist among social classes because of clashing interests, competition for limited resources, and inequalities of power in the socioeconomic hierarchy.[1] In its simplest manifestation, class conflict refers to the ongoing battle between the rich and poor.[2]

(Examples I would include: Tax cuts for the rich; health insurance profits at the expense of denial of coverage, union busting, corruption of politicians through legalized bribery)

Culture War: A culture war is a form of cultural conflict (metaphorical "war") between different social groups who struggle to politically impose their own ideology (moral beliefs, humane virtues, religious practices) upon mainstream society,[1][2] or upon the other. In political usage, the term culture war is a metaphor for "hot-button" politics about values and ideologies, realized with intentionally adversarial social narratives meant to provoke political polarization among the mainstream of society over economic matters of[3][4] public policy[5] and of consumption.[1] As practical politics, a culture war is about social policy wedge issues that are based on abstract arguments about values, morality, and lifestyle meant to provoke political cleavage in a multicultural society.[2]

(Examples I would include: LGBTQ rights, 'wokeism', general equality)

 

[Slartibartfast]

Ultimately the US would be much better off if we didn't have to content with lobbying and other efforts by the rich to turn the legal system against regular folks. This makes all of us less successful while the GINI index gets increasingly top heavy.

The culture wars are just a distraction.

 

[Bok Tuklo]

The culture wars are just a distraction.

It is the illusion of political discourse. We can no longer address real problems as a nation, or we are so bored by them as to be effectively the same. So, we argue over genitals and Toni Morrison novels while telling ourselves we are engaged with civic affairs.

 

[aociswundumho]

In its simplest manifestation, class conflict refers to the ongoing battle between the rich and poor.[2]

The classes aren't static; people are constantly moving up or down. While millions improve their skills and gain education, others are losing jobs, facing health problems, and falling behind. Some entrepreneurs are getting rich, while others are losing everything. Look at your own life. Most of us reading this have experienced financial ups and downs, and many of us, myself included, have dealt with wild swings.

 

[Questerr]

The classes aren't static; people are constantly moving up or down. While millions improve their skills and gain education, others are losing jobs, facing health problems, and falling behind. Some entrepreneurs are getting rich, while others are losing everything. Look at your own life. Most of us reading this have experienced financial ups and downs, and many of us, myself included, have dealt with wild swings.

Except statistically, facts don’t bear you out. If you are born to a rich family, you will likely be rich and your kids will be rich. If you are born to a poor family, you will likely be poor and your kids will be poor.

Class movement is a marginal occurrence. Not a common event.

 

[Bok Tuklo]

Except statistically, facts don’t bear you out. If you are born to a rich family, you will likely be rich and your kids will be rich. If you are born to a poor family, you will likely be poor and your kids will be poor.

Class movement is a marginal occurrence. Not a common event.

 

[Dans La Lune]

The classes aren't static; people are constantly moving up or down. While millions improve their skills and gain education, others are losing jobs, facing health problems, and falling behind. Some entrepreneurs are getting rich, while others are losing everything. Look at your own life. Most of us reading this have experienced financial ups and downs, and many of us, myself included, have dealt with wild swings.

There is a point of wealth at which failing is virtually impossible, hence the notion that the rich tend to fail upward. This is largely because money and privilege creates more money and more privilege, whereas hard work rarely generates significant wealth.

 

[aociswundumho]

There is a point of wealth at which failing is virtually impossible, hence the notion that the rich tend to fail upward.

Nonsense. No matter how much you have, you can always blow it. Look at Mike Tyson, or countless other profession athletes who were filthy rich and lost it all. Or consider that 70% of lottery winners end up broke in under ten years.

 

[zincwarrior]

Culture wars are used to distract from class wars.

 

[Questerr]

There is a point of wealth at which failing is virtually impossible, hence the notion that the rich tend to fail upward. This is largely because money and privilege creates more money and more privilege, whereas hard work rarely generates significant wealth.

And @aociswundumho wants there to be zero regulations or things like inheritance taxes to ensure those wealthy families end up as new version of feudal nobility.

 

[Questerr]

Nonsense. No matter how much you have, you can always blow it. Look at Mike Tyson, or countless other profession athletes who were filthy rich and lost it all. Or consider that 70% of lottery winners end up broke in under ten years.

Because the point at which it’s virtually impossible to lose your wealth is considerably higher than Tyson or lottery winners make. Billions of dollars.

 

[aociswundumho]

If you are born to a rich family, you will likely be rich and your kids will be rich. If you are born to a poor family, you will likely be poor and your kids will be poor.

Likely isn't "always", hence the classes are not static.

Most Billionaires Are Self-Made, Not Heirs

Some 32 percent of the Forbes 400 in 2011 belonged to very rich families, down from 60 percent in 1982.

www.chicagobooth.edu

 

[Questerr]

Likely isn't "always", hence the classes are not static.

Most Billionaires Are Self-Made, Not Heirs

Some 32 percent of the Forbes 400 in 2011 belonged to very rich families, down from 60 percent in 1982.

www.chicagobooth.edu

Almost no billionaires are “self-made”. Nearly every single one is given a leg up by their family somehow. And all of them get where they are through exploitation.

And I didn’t say always, did I? If the part of my post you DISHONESTLY CUT OUT I specifically said class movement is a marginal occurrence.

 

[aociswundumho]

There is a point of wealth at which failing is virtually impossible,

Tyson had a peak net worth of 300 million dollars at one point.

 

[Bok Tuklo]

Because the point at which it’s virtually impossible to lose your wealth is considerably higher than Tyson or lottery winners make. Billions of dollars.

Yeah. That is proved by Elmo spending 44 billion on a company with revenue of The Olive Garden and is not now living on the streets.

 

[aociswundumho]

And all of them get where they are through exploitation.

You lot are still stuck in the 1850s.

 

[Questerr]

You lot are still stuck in the 1850s.

No, it’s a simple fact. You don’t become a billionaire without exploitation, whether that’s of your workers, your consumers, the environment, or some combination of the three.

 

[eohrnberger]

Seems that some here in this thread suffer from the belief in liberal / progressive myths.

MYTH 1. Inequality Has Never Been Worse ​

MYTH 2. The Rich Didn’t Earn Their Money ​

MYTH 3. The Rich Stay Rich; the Poor Stay Poor ​

MYTH 4. More Inequality Means More Poverty ​

MYTH 5. Inequality Distorts the Political Process ​

Five Myths about Economic Inequality in America ​

September 7, 2016 • Policy Analysis No. 797​

By Michael D. Tanner​

https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/five-myths-about-economic-inequality-america#​

 

[Slartibartfast]

Seems that some here in this thread suffer from the belief in liberal / progressive myths.

MYTH 1. Inequality Has Never Been Worse ​

MYTH 2. The Rich Didn’t Earn Their Money ​

MYTH 3. The Rich Stay Rich; the Poor Stay Poor ​

MYTH 4. More Inequality Means More Poverty ​

MYTH 5. Inequality Distorts the Political Process ​

Five Myths about Economic Inequality in America ​

September 7, 2016 • Policy Analysis No. 797​

By Michael D. Tanner​

https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/five-myths-about-economic-inequality-america#​

Do you have anything that is not from a propaganda outfit?

 

[Luce]

Which war is more important, and impacts you and your family and friends more?

Class War: In political science, the term class conflict or class struggle refers to the economic antagonism and political tension that exist among social classes because of clashing interests, competition for limited resources, and inequalities of power in the socioeconomic hierarchy.[1] In its simplest manifestation, class conflict refers to the ongoing battle between the rich and poor.[2]

(Examples I would include: Tax cuts for the rich; health insurance profits at the expense of denial of coverage, union busting, corruption of politicians through legalized bribery)

Culture War: A culture war is a form of cultural conflict (metaphorical "war") between different social groups who struggle to politically impose their own ideology (moral beliefs, humane virtues, religious practices) upon mainstream society,[1][2] or upon the other. In political usage, the term culture war is a metaphor for "hot-button" politics about values and ideologies, realized with intentionally adversarial social narratives meant to provoke political polarization among the mainstream of society over economic matters of[3][4] public policy[5] and of consumption.[1] As practical politics, a culture war is about social policy wedge issues that are based on abstract arguments about values, morality, and lifestyle meant to provoke political cleavage in a multicultural society.[2]

(Examples I would include: LGBTQ rights, 'wokeism', general equality)

Culture war is a tool of class warfare.

 

[devildavid]

Nonsense. No matter how much you have, you can always blow it. Look at Mike Tyson, or countless other profession athletes who were filthy rich and lost it all. Or consider that 70% of lottery winners end up broke in under ten years.

Rich entertainers are statistical outliers, not at all indicative of the impact of class. Same with lottery winners. In fact, they are probably more likely to lose it all due to coming from the lower class, on average.

 

[devildavid]

You lot are still stuck in the 1850s.

Exploited labor is part and parcel of capitalism to this day. Agriculture and clothing are two obvious examples.

 

[aociswundumho]

Exploited labor is part and parcel of capitalism to this day. Agriculture and clothing are two obvious examples.

Define "exploited labor".

 

[eohrnberger]

Do you have anything that is not from a propaganda outfit?

I completely get your perspective: Non-Leftist thinking = propaganda

That'd be a false equivalence, by the way, but you do you.

 

[aociswundumho]

If you are born to a rich family, you will likely be rich and your kids will be rich.

Suppose you build a business up, get rich, and then leave a lot of money to your kids when you die.

Why is that a problem?