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Civil War in the UK

Evilroddy said:
I don't think the UK is on the verge of the Wars of Three Factions or Grievances in the foreseeable future..
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Things got very heated in some quarters with the Brexit debate in 2015/2016 but we settled back into peace. Betz isn't talking to the British people or even his peers in the world of University education, this is for his domestic American audience that has been engaged in the latest version of identity based culture wars between each other for the last 10-15 years.

Some Americans are desperate to bring that kind of hostility to our country and our politics.

This article talks about how the latest version started and of how UK politics often ape what happened in the US previously and if you believe in any of this "culture war / civil war" type rubbish then it will actually happen in the USA first.

www.kcl.ac.uk

How culture wars start

Is the UK going down the same road as the US?
www.kcl.ac.uk
 
Infinite Chaos:

Given that the UK survived the 1970s with the Oil Crisis, sky-rocketing inflation, IMF loans, three-day work weeks, regular power cuts, colder than normal winters, class divisions, and union radicalisation but without rebellion or civil war; the idea that it is on the verge collapse and civil war now is cod-wallop.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.
 
Evilroddy said:
Infinite Chaos:

Given that the UK survived the 1970s with the Oil Crisis, sky-rocketing inflation, IMF loans, three-day work weeks, regular power cuts, colder than normal winters, class divisions, and union radicalisation but without rebellion or civil war; the idea that it is on the verge collapse and civil war now is cod-wallop.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.
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Yea, but England did not have all those "immigrants" that weaken the blood pool....


please note, I wrote England.. and of course this is all sarcastic.
 
PeteEU said:
Yea, but England did not have all those "immigrants" that weaken the blood pool....


please note, I wrote England.. and of course this is all sarcastic.
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PeteEU:

Understood and I think you put your finger right on the OP's intention in starting this thread. A Culture War starts by some people starting culture wars. It's really that simple. Don't get me wrong. there are things which need to be fixed urgently in the UK, like everywhere else, but that requires political reform through compromise and not polarisation to induce internecine warfare based on nativism or ultranationalism.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.
 
Evilroddy said:
PeteEU:

Understood and I think you put your finger right on the OP's intention in starting this thread. A Culture War starts by some people starting culture wars. It's really that simple. Don't get me wrong. there are things which need to be fixed urgently in the UK, like everywhere else, but that requires political reform through compromise and not polarisation to induce internecine warfare based on nativism or ultranationalism.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.
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I agree.. but the solutions needed are not something that the current crop of politicians are willing to do, as it will piss off their masters in the 1%. Man I sound like a freaking communist, but it is a sad fact of the failed US inspired capitalist society we have today.

The number 1 and 2 problems in society is cost of living and housing.

On housing, it is simple.. build more affordable housing. Problem is that would push down housing prices as supply increases. That in turn means those that do own houses, would become poorer, as they in many cases would be "underwater" loan wise. That would cause a seismic event in most European societies. So even the freaking socialists only build token housing..

On cost of living. That is far harder to tackle, because you are going up against big business.. often American owned. The greed from big business was clearly evident after Covid and the Ukraine invasion. They all claimed that they had to raise prices because costs had gone up.. only to post record profits. That is greedy. Only competition and cracking down on big business to create more competition will solve this problem. The EU tries, but certain countries push against this.. Italy comes to mind on lack of competition in key industries.

Now the far right.. will they do anything different? Of course not. Blaming black and brown people for the ills of society does nothing to fix the problem. On top of that, these far right parties are often financed by big business... look at Elon, look at Radcliff in the UK and so on. The far right will protect big business... period. Look at Italy! Look at the UK and its banks!.. protect the rich, and **** the rest.
 
PeteEU said:
England did not have all those "immigrants" that weaken the blood pool....
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I know where you're heading with that but even "England" is not itself heading for any kind of culture war, at least not anything beyond what has been happening in terms in inter-UK rivalry with the Scots and English.
 
Silenthunder said:
Dr David Betz, an (American) professor in the War Studies department at King’s College, London, believes that civil war in this country is now inevitable, even if we haven’t taken this on board. Professor Betz does have an argument, and parts of it seem to me irrefutable. The three factors that he identified as leading up to civil strife in any country studied were ethnic replacement, the State’s loss of legitimacy, and “polar factionalism”. That’s not the order that he put them in. No one who is Reform UK-adjacent wants to hear that racist motives are uppermost on their agenda, but, without the fury supplied by ethnic resentment, the other motives would be insufficient for the kind of widespread slaughter that he foresees.




I'm curious to hear the thoughts of our UK members on this topic and how they might correlate with what we're seeing in the US today.
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There is a long, long list of so-called 'leaders' who have underestimated the UK. Start with FDR who fully believed Hitler would win the island. Speaking of leaders who under estimated "The Isles" the list is headed by that same Nazi.

That island withstood two or more years against the might of the Nazi war machine and won it with a handful of crazed pilots from England, Scotland, Canada, Poland, Italy.....

Their planes were slower, their machine guns less powerful but they defeated the then greatest military machine on the planet ... all with a stiff upper lip.

Don't get me wrong. In truth I don't like the Brits much, but credit is due to such bravery
 
One interesting difference between the UK and the US is that the UK has, for virtually all of its history, been a white European country. There is a much deeper sense of white identity in the UK than in the US. IMO, three factors create an environment for civil war: ethnonationalism, cultural devolution, and Factionalism.
 
Silenthunder said:
Dr David Betz, an (American) professor in the War Studies department at King’s College, London, believes that civil war in this country is now inevitable, even if we haven’t taken this on board. Professor Betz does have an argument, and parts of it seem to me irrefutable. The three factors that he identified as leading up to civil strife in any country studied were ethnic replacement, the State’s loss of legitimacy, and “polar factionalism”. That’s not the order that he put them in. No one who is Reform UK-adjacent wants to hear that racist motives are uppermost on their agenda, but, without the fury supplied by ethnic resentment, the other motives would be insufficient for the kind of widespread slaughter that he foresees.




I'm curious to hear the thoughts of our UK members on this topic and how they might correlate with what we're seeing in the US today.
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Oh, yeah, we have those "race war" loons here, too.
 
Wow, I live in the UK and hadn't noticed we're on the brink of civil war.
Sure, the English and Scottish take the piss out of each other constantly but that's just friendly banter and a laugh.
 
Silenthunder said:
One interesting difference between the UK and the US is that the UK has, for virtually all of its history, been a white European country. There is a much deeper sense of white identity in the UK than in the US. IMO, three factors create an environment for civil war: ethnonationalism, cultural devolution, and Factionalism.
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There was never slavery on British shores by law. There were always people of non white complexion all through history, if you look. King Henry VIII's prize warship which sank in 1545 mustered a diverse crew.

www.bbc.co.uk

Mary Rose crew 'was from Mediterranean and North Africa'

Bone structure and DNA of 10 skeletons found on board Henry VIII's sunken flagship have been analysed.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
Silenthunder said:
One interesting difference between the UK and the US is that the UK has, for virtually all of its history, been a white European country. There is a much deeper sense of white identity in the UK than in the US. IMO, three factors create an environment for civil war: ethnonationalism, cultural devolution, and Factionalism.
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Erm, we've had people flocking in from all over the former colonies for generations.
The UK has a huge Indian population and Indian food is basically a national dish here.

Chicken Tika Massala is on the same popularity level as fish and chips.
Recently we had shitloads of Polish people and they have worked hard and been welcomed.

The UK is hugely multicultural and I personally work with people from a number of different nationalities.
 
Peter said:
Wow, I live in the UK and hadn't noticed we're on the brink of civil war.
Sure, the English and Scottish take the piss out of each other constantly but that's just friendly banter and a laugh.
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He's trying to help the EDL defend you from those people.
 
Peter said:
The EDL are a bunch of morons who don't deserve attention.
They will never have political clout.
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Well, OP is apparently here to plead their case.
 
Peter said:
I'd put more faith in Count Binface becoming a political force than the EDL.
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Yes, but there you were, unaware that you are on the brink of civil war from "devolution" and "ethnic replacement."
 
Luce said:
Well, OP is apparently here to plead their case.
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I'm not on anyone's side. Tommy Robinson and that whole crowd are morons. However we are seeing in Europe and the US are rise of race wars due to a combination of issues. Ethno-nationalism is a toxin in a society. And factualism is one of the greatest issues we're dealing with now - essentially truth is defined by ideology not facts. So if I came across as supporting this, I don't. This is a debate/discussion board and I put this topic up for discussion. I'm not saying the UK is or isn't on the verge of civil war. However that messaging is what the UK right is pushing like crazy.
 
Silenthunder said:
I'm not on anyone's side. Tommy Robinson and that whole crowd are morons. However we are seeing in Europe and the US are rise of race wars due to a combination of issues. Ethno-nationalism is a toxin in a society. And factualism is one of the greatest issues we're dealing with now - essentially truth is defined by ideology not facts. So if I came across as supporting this, I don't. This is a debate/discussion board and I put this topic up for discussion. I'm not saying the UK is or isn't on the verge of civil war. However that messaging is what the UK right is pushing like crazy.
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Do you have any examples of a mainstream UK right party pushing this drivel?
 
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