Sorry, thought you were saying I condoned the name-calling.Stace said:I didn't say that you were doing the name calling
I would agree with you there - neither one is doing anything they should be, but this is America, land of the almighty dolla ($). Making money is OK, but selling out your country isn't.Stace said:And yes, Sharon Rocha is very similar to Cindy Sheehan. They both lost their children, and they're both making money off of that. NEITHER of them should be doing the things they are. Cindy just has a larger audience because of the circumstances under which her son died.
easyt65 said:Sorry, thought you were saying I condoned the name-calling.
I would agree with you there - neither one is doing anything they should be, but this is America, land of the almighty dolla ($). Making money is OK, but selling out your country isn't.:roll:
And if I read your comment correctly about 'chill pills', congratulations. If I am WAY off the mark, :doh I deny ever saying anything!
Vandeervecken said:The lies and distortions of the right wing are nearly as bad as their name calling here.
#1 No matter how you try and distort it, Bush did not ask for, and congress did not issue a Declaration of War. We are not at war.
#2 Chavez, a democratically elected leader of a South American nation is not only not an enemy of our nation but Venezuela is a member of several organizations we are members of such as NAFTA, the OAS and the like. Venezuela even holds Most Favored nation status with us. Hardly an enemy of our nation. You might note that Cuba and Castro can say none of those things.
#3 Yes you have every right to base your debate on childish name calling in this nation, However that does not mean we do not have the right to point out that playground taunts seem to be most of what you have. Grown adults who think, "She is an ugly bitch," somehow rebuts her political stance are truly pitiful, lack any sort of knowledge and our worthy of no respect in this forum.
#4 It would be nice to see the rules finally start getting followed on this forum. As it stands now there are a number of long standing members, and some of the mod team, who are totally rule exempt and fill this forum with insults, profanity and all manner of rules violations with seeming impunity. Meanwhile many newcomers are told to watch their step or the very same mod team members breaking the rules will jump all over them.
#5 Yes Cindy's son did reenlist, but perhaps he bought the lies and propaganda of the Bush administration and actually somehow thought Iraq had something meaningful to do with 9-11 when in reality is is private Bush family vengeance for the attempt on the elder Bush's life. Of course that and the fact that the House of Saud and House of Bush are so intertwined as to make any attack on our real enemies impossible under the current junta in Washington.
Stace said:It has to do with all of you getting all up in arms because Cindy's made some money and garnered some attention off of her son's death. Well, Laci Peterson's mother is doing the same thing, though not quite on the same scale....she's making the talk show rounds, she's got a book out......so why is no one berating her for making money off of her daughter's death? What makes it so wrong for Cindy, but ok for Sharon Rocha?
Vandeervecken said:#1 No matter how you try and distort it, Bush did not ask for, and congress did not issue a Declaration of War. We are not at war.
Vandeervecken said:#2 Chavez, a democratically elected leader of a South American nation is not only not an enemy of our nation but Venezuela is a member of several organizations we are members of such as NAFTA, the OAS and the like. Venezuela even holds Most Favored nation status with us. Hardly an enemy of our nation. You might note that Cuba and Castro can say none of those things.
Vandeervecken said:#3 Yes you have every right to base your debate on childish name calling in this nation, However that does not mean we do not have the right to point out that playground taunts seem to be most of what you have. Grown adults who think, "She is an ugly bitch," somehow rebuts her political stance are truly pitiful, lack any sort of knowledge and our worthy of no respect in this forum.
Vandeervecken said:#4 It would be nice to see the rules finally start getting followed on this forum. As it stands now there are a number of long standing members, and some of the mod team, who are totally rule exempt and fill this forum with insults, profanity and all manner of rules violations with seeming impunity. Meanwhile many newcomers are told to watch their step or the very same mod team members breaking the rules will jump all over them.
Vandeervecken said:#5 Yes Cindy's son did reenlist, but perhaps he bought the lies and propaganda of the Bush administration and actually somehow thought Iraq had something meaningful to do with 9-11 when in reality is is private Bush family vengeance for the attempt on the elder Bush's life. Of course that and the fact that the House of Saud and House of Bush are so intertwined as to make any attack on our real enemies impossible under the current junta in Washington.
Trajan Octavian Titus said:Actually when I heard that the mother was going to putting out a book it made me sick to know that she was trying to profit off of her daughters death.
Vandeervecken said:The lies and distortions of the right wing are nearly as bad as their name calling here.
#1 No matter how you try and distort it, Bush did not ask for, and congress did not issue a Declaration of War. We are not at war.
#2 Chavez, a democratically elected leader of a South American nation is not only not an enemy of our nation but Venezuela is a member of several organizations we are members of such as NAFTA, the OAS and the like. Venezuela even holds Most Favored nation status with us. Hardly an enemy of our nation. You might note that Cuba and Castro can say none of those things.
#3 Yes you have every right to base your debate on childish name calling in this nation, However that does not mean we do not have the right to point out that playground taunts seem to be most of what you have. Grown adults who think, "She is an ugly bitch," somehow rebuts her political stance are truly pitiful, lack any sort of knowledge and our worthy of no respect in this forum.
#4 It would be nice to see the rules finally start getting followed on this forum. As it stands now there are a number of long standing members, and some of the mod team, who are totally rule exempt and fill this forum with insults, profanity and all manner of rules violations with seeming impunity. Meanwhile many newcomers are told to watch their step or the very same mod team members breaking the rules will jump all over them.
#5 Yes Cindy's son did reenlist, but perhaps he bought the lies and propaganda of the Bush administration and actually somehow thought Iraq had something meaningful to do with 9-11 when in reality is is private Bush family vengeance for the attempt on the elder Bush's life. Of course that and the fact that the House of Saud and House of Bush are so intertwined as to make any attack on our real enemies impossible under the current junta in Washington.
ludahai said:The same is true for both Korea and Vietnam, wars that began under Democratic administrations.
NYStateofMind said:FYI:
The first US casualties in the Vietnam War were in 1959. The US military presence began in 1955, during the (Republican) Eisenhower administration.
Vandeervecken said:The lies and distortions of the right wing are nearly as bad as their name calling here.
#1 No matter how you try and distort it, Bush did not ask for, and congress did not issue a Declaration of War. We are not at war.
#2 Chavez, a democratically elected leader of a South American nation is not only not an enemy of our nation but Venezuela is a member of several organizations we are members of such as NAFTA, the OAS and the like. Venezuela even holds Most Favored nation status with us. Hardly an enemy of our nation. You might note that Cuba and Castro can say none of those things.
#5 Yes Cindy's son did reenlist, but perhaps he bought the lies and propaganda of the Bush administration and actually somehow thought Iraq had something meaningful to do with 9-11 when in reality is is private Bush family vengeance for the attempt on the elder Bush's life. Of course that and the fact that the House of Saud and House of Bush are so intertwined as to make any attack on our real enemies impossible under the current junta in Washington.
ludahai said:The Gulf of Tonkin Incident saw the escalation from more than a token military force, and that occurred during the Johnson Administration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Incident
Soon after the Korean War, with the intention of preventing South Vietnam from becoming a communist state, United States President Dwight D. Eisenhower sent the first of hundreds of American armed servicemen (along with CIA agents [1]) to Vietnam as military advisers on Feb 12 1955.
At a news conference, Eisenhower stated, "You have a row of dominoes set up, you knock over the first one, and what will happen to the last one is a certainty that it will go over very quickly." Eisenhower and his staff subsequently started a plan for military support of South Vietnam.
On July 8, 1959 Dale Buis and Charles Ovnand were the first Americans killed in Action in Vietnam.
Deegan said:This all carries Little weight if you are not prepared to speak about ALL the lies we hear daily, you listed only those of the right. Is there any honesty in you, or are you just an angry partisan yourself? I can say that I agree with most of your post here, but I refuse to ignore the real threat that Chavez poses on his country, and Latin America as a whole. I would also add that I don't know why Cindy's son re-enlisted, only that he did do so, and this speaks to his courage, loyalty, and honor to his fellow troops, this is how I will remember him, not on what is presumed!
Scarecrow Akhbar said:Hmmm....war began when our troops rolled over the border. That it's not a war following constitutional requirements doesn't mean it's not a war.
Scarecrow Akhbar said:Chavez is no friend of ours. He's probably the second biggest threat to US security in this hemisphere, outside of Mexico. Commie China has MFN status, too.
Scarecrow Akhbar said:Or...we're talking to Democrats...
Scarecrow Akhbar said:Call me Switzerland, I'm not getting involved. Just send me all that dental gold...
Scarecrow Akhbar said:What you're saying here is that Cindy's stupidity was not only genetic, but its on a dominant gene.
Scarecrow Akhbar said:You're also demonstrating a deplorable ignorance of why Iraq is important in and of itself, ignorance of the realities of what we can do, and ignorance of what we need to do.
Scarecrow Akhbar said:Iraq is important because of the map.
Scarecrow Akhbar said:We can't be wasting resources attacking countries controlled by people favorable to us. Note Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia.
Scarecrow Akhbar said:We need to replace the emotionally ruled culture of the towelhead world with a rational culture. As a first step, we took out the Taliban. That too was a war, deny it not, though it wasn't a "declared" war either. Both Afghanland and Iraq now have fledgling representative governments that we're responsible for.
Scarecrow Akhbar said:Cindy Sheehan, in her urge to profit off her son's death, is harming this nation by telling the terrorists that they're right, that if they hold on long enough, we'll run away, just like we did in Somalia, just like we did in Vietnam. People supporting Sheehan are working their hardest to make sure Iraq is another US Vietnam.
That's all they're doing.
ludahai said:The same is true for both Korea and Vietnam, wars that began under Democratic administrations.
ludahai said:Democratic if you accept outright fraud and intimidation at the ballot box and denial of access of opposition candidates to the same media time that Chavez was able to get.
ludahai said:I do agree that the childish chants from BOTH sides need to go.
ludahai said:Agreed!
ludahai said:Perhaps he re-enlisted because he thought he was part of a noble mission. This is not Bush's war. This is a war that was delayed and was inevitable due to the behavior and intransigence of Saddam. Most countries would consider an assination attempt on a former head of state as an act of war, but Clinton's partisanship and hatred for PResident Bush (at that time) apparently knew no bounds. As for this whole House of Saud - House of Bush thing, EVERY president since FDR has been intertwined with the Saudis in one way or another.
Trajan Octavian Titus said:Joint Resolutions of Congress on September 14, 2001, and October 22, 2002, we are in an official state of war..
Trajan Octavian Titus said:NAFTA, North, American, Free, Trade, Agreement, the only members are Canada The U.S. and Mexico, Venezuela is not a member of CAFTA either, they are a member of Mercosur but that has nothing to do with the U.S. and it is primarily Chavez who is standing in the way of the FTAA (Foriegn Trade of the Americas Agreement). Furthermore; upon being elected Chavez has rewritten the Constitution, installed a unicameral legislature beholden to his will, put into legislation to crack down on the freedom of the press, and has aligned Venezuela with such nations as Iran and Cuba, it is clear that Chavez is not only an enemy of the U.S. but an enemy to freedom in general. Hitler was elected too..
Trajan Octavian Titus said:The Bush administration never claimed that Saddam was responsible for 9-11 they did make the claim that AlQaeda was allied with Saddam which is true.
Vandeervecken said:The Korean Conflict (Also no declaration of war there) was started by a UN resolution and as a part of out duties as signatory to the UN charter.
The Vietnam Conflict was started during the administration of Eisenhower. First troops in country went in 1956, first deaths 1959. Facts are stubborn things.
Sounds like Florida circa 2000. In fact the last charge sounds like US politics for the last several decades.
We have a point of solid agreement here.
Make that two points of solid agreement.
You should really read Craig Unger's book House of Saud-House of Bush. It is fully footnoted, and leaves no doubt. This is well beyond the norm. This is Bush's war, he could not go against the nation that really attacked us, Saudi Arabia, so he decided to settle family accounts with Saddam.
PS, would you mind if I copied your signature graphic about support for Denmark and placed it in my own for a while?
Vandeervecken said:That makes it a conflict, not war, which has a legal designation under both our Constitution and international law. We have never declared war. Bush never asked for a declaration of war, congress never issued one.
Vandeervecken said:Doesn;t mean he is an enemy either. Under no reasoible designation of the word enemy can you call him that.
Vandeervecken said:A playground taunt, naught else.
Vandeervecken said:A semantic null.
Vandeervecken said:No, that is not what I said nor implied.
Vandeervecken said:#5 Yes Cindy's son did reenlist, but perhaps he bought the lies and propaganda of the Bush administration and actually somehow thought Iraq had something meaningful to do with 9-11 when in reality is is private Bush family vengeance for the attempt on the elder Bush's life. Of course that and the fact that the House of Saud and House of Bush are so intertwined as to make any attack on our real enemies impossible under the current junta in Washington.
Vandeervecken said:Yet none of this was cited by the Bush administration in reasons for war.
Vandeervecken said:Ah, so when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor we should have invaded Brazil becasue it was geographically more accesible?
Vandeervecken said:Saudi Arabia is our number one enemy on the pleanet.
Vandeervecken said:The problem with Sau In point of fact I wouls say they are the number one enemy of western civilization. Pakistan has the bomb which is why Bush coizied up to them.
Vandeervecken said:Islam and rationality are mutually exclusive things. One cannot have both.
Vandeervecken said:It will be no matter what anyone else does. You cannot impose democracy on unwilling others at the point of a gun.
Vandeervecken said:The lies and distortions of the right wing are nearly as bad as their name calling here.
#1 No matter how you try and distort it, Bush did not ask for, and congress did not issue a Declaration of War. We are not at war.
Vandeervecken said:#2 Chavez, a democratically elected leader of a South American nation is not only not an enemy of our nation but Venezuela is a member of several organizations we are members of such as NAFTA, the OAS and the like. Venezuela even holds Most Favored nation status with us. Hardly an enemy of our nation. You might note that Cuba and Castro can say none of those things.
I couldn't agree with you more - there is no need for profanity or personal attacks within debate. I have no problem stating that I believe her 'crusade' has become about HER now rather than about her son, that she does not speak for anyone else's sons or daughters, and that, IMHO, she has disgraced her son's memory and the memory of his act of a truly honorable and noble thing in sacrificing for his country. But that is just me,and I said it without 1 personal attack or profanity-laced tirade.Vandeervecken said:#3 Yes you have every right to base your debate on childish name calling in this nation... Grown adults who think, "She is an ugly bitch," somehow rebuts her political stance are truly pitiful, lack any sort of knowledge and our worthy of no respect in this forum. #4 It would be nice to see the rules finally start getting followed on this forum. As it stands now there are a number of long standing members.....
Translation:Vandeervecken said:#5 Yes Cindy's son did reenlist, but perhaps he bought the lies and propaganda of the Bush administration and actually somehow thought Iraq had something meaningful to do with 9-11 when in reality is is private Bush family vengeance for the attempt on the elder Bush's life.
Uh...I wasn't making a big deal over whether it was a Senator or a Representative. I was talking about the fact that she was wearing a t shirt, not unfurling a banner. I've read every post in this thread, thanks, and you said no such thing in your first few posts....in fact, from what I can see, it wasn't until post #39 that you tried to say Rep. Woolsey should have known better.....
I'm perfectly aware of all of that, so what's your point, exactly?
Stinger said:If a lawenforcement officer asks you something and your are unresponsive you are likely to be taken into custody especially at just such an occasion.
You>>Well, no kidding. I'm aware of that, too...my husband IS a police officer, you know. So I still don't get your point. It's not like I ever made the argument that she shouldn't have been arrested, now did I?
What was your point about her JUST wearing a T-Shirt then?
Vandeervecken said:Your problem is that you assume that since I oppose Bush and the rest of the Christian Fascisti that I must be a liberal Democrat. BZZZZT Wrong, thanks for playing, take your Rice-A-Roni and go home now.
Yes I call the left on their nonsense too. Such as when Clinton sent troops to Bosnia. I m no Democrat. Never voted for Clinton or Gore yadda yadda.
I was a democrat way back in my youth but their contempt for the 1st, 2nd, and 14th Amendments among others made me leave them behind.
No it's not I suggest you read the war powers resolution of 1973 again, we are in an official state of war.Vandeervecken said:This is simply a lie. Bush has not asked for, nor has Cingresses issued a Declaration of War. An authorization to use force is not a declaration of war. The United Staytes has not declared war since World War Two.
They tried to leave that strong impression even long past everyone knew it was false. Al-Qaeda was not allied with iraq, they in fact did not at all like the fact iraq was a secular government. More lies.
Stinger said:What was your point about her JUST wearing a T-Shirt then?
Stace said:Well, if you had bothered to read all of my posts, you would see that I was merely trying to keep the story accurate. I was getting sick of everyone saying that she was unfurling a banner when she wasn't. If you're going to discuss something, at least have the facts.
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