Christians, What do you think of this?

[Southern Belle]

God isn't so riughteous though, Jesus from what we know of him seems like a great dude to model yourself after but God not so much...

I know it looks that way, but even in the New Testament it says:

1 Peter
12Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

13But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

God uses trials to teach people lessons and to grow and mature them in the faith. He'll come again and everything will be made new. We shouldn't let our circumstances weaken our faith because if you know Jesus, God works all things together for good, to those that love Him, no matter what they are and we should be looking to the future. That's what the Bible teaches. We need Jesus to get rid of our sins for us, and also, this life is so short, and God will always take care of those who love Him and seek after him.

 

[digsbe]

God isn't so riughteous though, Jesus from what we know of him seems like a great dude to model yourself after but God not so much...

In Christianity, Jesus is God. He is the Human incarnation of God and is God Himself. Basically, Jesus is God, and represents God. You can't model yourself after one and not the other, because both are the same. Jesus is God in Human flesh.

 

[Southern Belle]

In Christianity, Jesus is God. He is the Human incarnation of God and is God Himself. Basically, Jesus is God, and represents God. You can't model yourself after one and not the other, because both are the same. Jesus is God in Human flesh.

Yes, that's right, and I personally have noticed Jesus in the Old Testement through God's goodness. They are indeed the same.

 

[RyrineaHaruno]

I love how some Christians call this propaganda when it is just giving out new ideas to the Jesus mythology. Just like how the Jefferson bible took out the divine stuff, since he didn't believe in that crap. I am an Atheist I too like this idea thought, since it seem more logical that he was a god like figure after all.

 

[BCR]

In Christianity, Jesus is God. He is the Human incarnation of God and is God Himself. Basically, Jesus is God, and represents God. You can't model yourself after one and not the other, because both are the same. Jesus is God in Human flesh.

So then Jesus killed all those people in the old testament...He isn't a good dude in my book then. I see what your getting at but I was talking from my point of view which is an Atheist view.

 

[SingleCellOrganism]

So then Jesus killed all those people in the old testament...He isn't a good dude in my book then. I see what your getting at but I was talking from my point of view which is an Atheist view.

From your tiny human perspective I can understand where you are coming from.

From the perspective of the being who holds time/space/life/death in his power, the things that happened in the old testament (please quote one so I can specifically address it) were done from a need to move society in certain directions.

For example, the surrounding nomadic pockets around the Jews were sacrificing babies and doing all sorts of unspeakable cruelties, and while God knows they are from "a time of ignorance" and will be judged accordingly, he couldn't let them just roll over the Jews and destroy his plan for bringing his son into the world through the Israelites. So military action was taken to completely wipe out that "tribe".

It seems cruel to mortals with no hope for resurrection, but from God's perspective its different, and while his "heart breaks" like in the Noah flood it needs to be done (relative to the story). The alternative being let the Israelites be conquered, his plan destroyed, and the nomadic baby sacrificers populate the region.

To put this into modern history, think of the Pol Pot regime --- while there were innocents in the ranks, would it be wrong to strike them considering their brutality and the implications of letting him run amok? Same question with Hitler, do you kill people in order to stop something bad from happening? Do you kill to change anything? Is there ever a time to kill? etc. etc.

 

[Geo Patric]

hardly new. anyone who reads more than the latest mystery thriller was aware of it.

geo.

 

[Geo Patric]

From your tiny human perspective I can understand where you are coming from.

yo, SCO.... i can make this rationalizing a lot easier for ya. All that about joshua and the conquering of Cannaan? never really happened. They made it up while captive there in Phillistia.... make em feel big and bad. (see The Bible Unearthed, Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origins of Its Sacred Texts - Norman Finklestein).

archaeology reveals nothing of such destruction. rather it shows longstanding, healthy communities that slowly evolved from 'pagan' cannaanite to Hebrew cannaanite - peacefully, as the semi-nomadic hebrews integrated... kinds sorta like central americans into Arizona.

and ya know what.... it really amazes me how many of the people who claim to love YHWH are PISSED that he DIDN'T order his people to slaughter tens of thousands of innocent pagans, burn their cities and enslave their women and children. really!

geo.

 

[SingleCellOrganism]

yo, SCO.... i can make this rationalizing a lot easier for ya. All that about joshua and the conquering of Cannaan? never really happened. They made it up there is captivity in Phillistia.... make em feel big and bad.

archaeology reveals nothing of such destruction. rather it shows longstanding, healthy communitities that slowly evolved from 'pagan' cannaanite to Hebrew cannaanite - peacefully, as the semi-nomadic hebrews integrated... kinds sorta like central americans into Arizona.

and ya know what.... it really amazes me how many of the people who claim to love YHWH are PISSED that he DIDN'T order his people to slaughter tens of thousands of innocent pagans, burn their cities and enslave their women and children. really!

geo.

I'm certainly far from being pissed that God didn't kill more people. If anything, I completely and rationally explained the behavior in the context the story, respond to that please.

I don't know where you are getting your archeological information from, so I can't comment, link please.

 

[Geo Patric]

I'm certainly far from being pissed that God didn't kill more people. If anything, I completely and rationally explained the behavior in the context the story, respond to that please.

sorry, that a just and loving god inspired a genocide of tens of thousands of innocent people (actual numbers of people living in palestine c 1400 BCE i do not know) whom he had never approached himself because they were simply not his own 'chosen' few is beyond acceptance to a rational man, and so, i rejected it long ago while still calling myself a believer.

I don't know where you are getting your archeological information from, so I can't comment, link please.

well. i posted the source... Finklesteins book. But... if yer having problems finding it, he, among others (both religious and secular), provided interview and content material to PBS when THEY took a look at the bible. A nice timeline summary in flash format is provided or you can watch the entire series online!

the internet... ya gotta love it!

geo.

 

[SingleCellOrganism]

sorry, that a just and loving god inspired a genocide of tens of thousands of innocent people (actual numbers of people living in palestine c 1400 BCE i do not know) whom he had never approached himself because they were simply not his own 'chosen' few is beyond acceptance to a rational man, and so, i rejected it long ago while still calling myself a believer.


well. i posted the source... Finklesteins book. But... if yer having problems finding it, he, among others (both religious and secular), provided interview and content material to PBS when THEY took a look at the bible. A nice timeline summary in flash format is provided or you can watch the entire series online!

the internet... ya gotta love it!

geo.

Thanks for the links, I'll watch, I must have missed the Finkelstein reference; sorry.

Do you reject the explanation I wrote? It had nothing to do with preference of peoples, it had to do with fulfilling the plan of redemption, the fact that the Israelites were "chosen" had nothing to do with it other than God fulfilling his word to Abraham and more importantly moving his plan forward.

Every one of those people will be resurrected and given a chance, as explained by the bible - I laud the intent behind your morality, but I just think you are wrong impuning God for something that is explainable, and justifiable by him. Life can be painful, but the outcome of the biblical narrative is one of peace, reconciliation, and forgiveness (of God as well, in the hearts of those who hated him, when they see who he really is). Considering a lesser being would have likely destroyed us all by now (I would if I had to witness all the bad of mankind), I am in awe of the biblical God for his patience, and the humble approach to his plan.

There are multiple scriptures asking mankind to judge God, and in the end (biblical narrative) his "works are justified". This is where logic and reason can dissolve into faith, maybe God is a wrathful maniac hell-bent on causing pain. I just don't buy that, that is an irrational conclusion in my mind, so the alternative must be true: God inspired those things as a part of a larger plan that is outside the scope of our comprehension (cause and effect relationships, etc).

 

[cpwill]

I was gonna put this on my facebook but I'm not sure I'd like to deal with the backlash and anger I'll receive.

YouTube - Religulous - The similarities between Horus and Jesus

It doesn't end at Horus either, many "sons of god" found in the Mediterranean were very similar to the Jesus story

understandable, as for the information being inaccurate I wouldn't know. They have there major differences from the look of it but at the same time they are eerily similar when it comes to some of the acts they performed and how they were born and died.

the copycat stories generally turn out to be bunk. my favorite thus far was the guy who insisted that Jesus was really Mithras because both of them had been virgin births...... Mithras having been born out of solid rock.... which i guess technically had probably never had sexual intercourse :lol:

Jesus and Horus Parallels:

1) Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.

Horus’ mother was not a virgin. She was married to Osiris, and there is no reason to suppose she was abstinent after marriage. Horus was, per the story, miraculously conceived. Seth had killed and dismembered Osiris, then Isis put her husband's dead body back together and had intercourse with it. In some versions, she used a hand-made phallus since she wasn't able to find that part of her husband. So while it was a miraculous conception, it was not a virgin birth.

Horus was given three different birthdates in mythology, one of which does correspond to December 25th. But since Jesus wasn't, per the evidence, born on 12/25, this isn't a parallel.

"Meri" (technically "Mr-ee") is the egyptian word for "beloved" and was apparently applied to Isis prior to Jesus' time, as a title, not as part of her name. But since there were probably thousands of women between Horus' time and Jesus' with a name or title that was a variation on "Mary", there's no real reason to suppose that Jesus' mother was named after Isis in particular. Even if, hypothetically, the Gospel authors themselves fabricated Jesus' mother and decided to name her "Mary", it's far more likely that they named her after other women from around their time named "Mary" than it is that they named her after "Isis-Meri".

Horus was born in a swamp, not a cave/manger. Acharya's footnotes for this point only make the claim that Jesus was born in a cave, and say nothing about Horus being born in one.

Horus' birth was not announced by a star in the east

There were no “three wise men” at Horus’ birth, or at Jesus’ for that matter (the Bible never gives the number of wise men, and they showed up at Jesus’ home, not at the manger, probably when Jesus was a year or two old)...

2) His earthly father was named "Seb" ("Joseph").

First of all, there is no parallel between the Egyptian name “Seb” and the Hebrew name “Joseph”, other than the fact that they’re common names. Also, Seb was Osiris’ father, not Horus’...

6) He had 12 disciples, two of whom were his "witnesses" and were named "Anup" and "Aan" (the two "Johns").

Horus had four disciples (called ‘Heru-Shemsu’). There’s another reference to sixteen followers, and a group of followers called ‘mesnui’ (blacksmiths) who join Horus in battle, but are never numbered. But there’s no reference to twelve followers or any of them being named “Anup” or “Aan”...

8) Horus walked on water.

No, he did not.

9) His personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father." He was thus called "Holy Child."

Horus was never referred to as “Iusa” (nor was anyone in Egyptian history - the word does not exist) or “Holy Child”...

12) He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.

Horus was never crucified. There’s an unofficial story in which he dies and is cast in pieces into the water, then later fished out by a crocodile at Isis’ request. This unofficial story is the only one in which he dies at all...

13) He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light," "Messiah," "God’s Anointed Son," the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd," the "Lamb of God," the "Word made flesh," the "Word of Truth," etc.

The only titles Horus is given are “Great God”, “Chief of the Powers”, “Master of Heaven”, and “Avenger of His Father”. None of the above titles are in any Egyptian mythology...

and so forth.

 

[Hawkins]

Jews were sacrificing babies and doing all sorts of unspeakable cruelties

I don't know where you get this information from. Sacritficing babies never happened to the Jews but rather a practice of those who believed in other gods.

People usually assume too fast about Christianity and reject it based on false information.

 

[SingleCellOrganism]

I don't know where you get this information from. Sacritficing babies never happened to the Jews but rather a practice of those who believed in other gods.

People usually assume too fast about Christianity and reject it based on false information.

Actually, though possibly with bad punctuation, I said this:

"For example, the surrounding nomadic pockets around the Jews were sacrificing babies and doing all sorts of unspeakable cruelties"

I.E. what you said.

Beyond that, I am arguing for christianity!

 

[Hawkins]

Actually, though possibly with bad punctuation, I said this:

"For example, the surrounding nomadic pockets around the Jews were sacrificing babies and doing all sorts of unspeakable cruelties"

I.E. what you said.

Beyond that, I am arguing for christianity!

I must be my mistake then.

 

[SingleCellOrganism]

I must be my mistake then.

Haha, no problem Hawk, after re-reading my sentence it wasn't exactly obvious what I was saying.

 

[Orion]

Most early Egyptian and Babylonian mythologies came from Sumer, which was essentially the cradle of civilization.

It's not surprising that many stories in the Bible come from that region.