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Christians Sue for Right NOT to Tolerate Policies

independent_thinker2002 said:
What is your favorite food? When did you choose to make that your favorite food? What is your favorite sexual position? When did you choose to make that your favorite? These questions are rhetorical of course. They illustrate my point though.
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They change, that illustrates mine.;)
 
We should never become so tolerant that we tolerate intolerance. It's one thing to say "fags are going to burn in hell" but it's another to say "homosexuality is not in line with the path of God."
 
Deegan said:
I agree, it's not a good place for such debate, not in middle, or high school, but college, that's a whole different ballgame, and has been for sometime now. But I still feel it's better to allow it, let's all know who the assholes are, then we can say, look, there goes the asshole.
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I don't think all gay teenagers/young adults hearing this teacher would just dismissher as an "asshole"; I do worry that some would take it to heart, would think "If even my teacher thinks I'm sick I must be", would worry that said teaher would not take any bullying the student received seriously. I'm sorry, but it's just not worth the risk to me.
 
Deegan said:
They change, that illustrates mine.;)
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Do you make a conscientious decision to change them? Or does it happen naturally?
 
Binary_Digit said:
We should never become so tolerant that we tolerate intolerance. It's one thing to say "fags are going to burn in hell" but it's another to say "homosexuality is not in line with the path of God."
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Say what you want, but that's for God to decide, good Christians know this, hell, we've tolerated our own preists for this long, and they take advantage of young boys not old enough to decide for themselves. This kind of nonsense needs to be heard, so we know which church not to attend.
 
Deegan said:
Well, that's one aspect I will never agree with, that people don't have a choice, or are born only to be with one sex. I believe you can be born with more female, or male genes, such as the struggle some men and women endure with their gender, but not born to only to a specific sexuality. Everyone has a choice, and I don't believe in furthering that lie, but that's just my opinion.
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If you (personally) can make a conscious choice to be sexually attracted to men instead of women, then I'll agree with you. But I bet you can't.
 
Enola/Alone said:
I don't think all gay teenagers/young adults hearing this teacher would just dismissher as an "asshole"; I do worry that some would take it to heart, would think "If even my teacher thinks I'm sick I must be", would worry that said teaher would not take any bullying the student received seriously. I'm sorry, but it's just not worth the risk to me.
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It's all very well and logical to say "oh, well sod them, they're morons", but anyone who's been the target of bullies or harassment will tell you that as much as we understand that they're the wanker with a problem, it's still belittling, humiliating and hurtful.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Do you make a conscientious decision to change them? Or does it happen naturally?
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I just don't buy in to it sir, people change, and I cannot, in good conscience, stand by while people tell others they are this way, and to accept it. I have a gentleman that works with me, he was gay for 20 years, he then met a nice girl, and is now married, his gay friends have treated him like a traitor, and mocked him behind his back. Why?

I think this speaks to what I am trying to get across here, and it's only one story, there are millions of others.
 
Deegan said:
I just don't buy in to it sir, people change, and I cannot, in good conscience, stand by while people tell others they are this way, and to accept it. I have a gentleman that works with me, he was gay for 20 years, he then met a nice girl, and is now married, his gay friends have treated him like a traitor, and mocked him behind his back. Why?

I think this speaks to what I am trying to get across here, and it's only one story, there are millions of others.
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You're right about one thing: this is just ONE stroy, one example of what it's like to live life as a gay person. The man in the above strory isn't somebody who was gay and then "chose" to be straight, he was bi. And his so called-friends are asses. Surely you're not implying that gay people can "chose" to be straight?
 
Deegan said:
I just don't buy in to it sir, people change, and I cannot, in good conscience, stand by while people tell others they are this way, and to accept it. I have a gentleman that works with me, he was gay for 20 years, he then met a nice girl, and is now married, his gay friends have treated him like a traitor, and mocked him behind his back. Why?

I think this speaks to what I am trying to get across here, and it's only one story, there are millions of others.
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You know, he could've just been bisexual.

Personally, I don't see how genuine gays can turn straight any more than I could see myself being able to turn gay. :?

galenrox said:
But just because we hold children to a certain standard doesn't mean we have to hold adults to them. In elementary school they have rules about when you can go to the bathroom along with other things. But we're talking about a college here, which is attended almost (if not entirely) exclusively by adults.
Regardless of how stupid this person is, she has a right to say that she thinks homosexuality is immoral. And a federally funded University has the responsibility to not undermine their students' constitutional rights. Now where the line needs to be drawn, I don't know, but that's not the issue being debated here. The issue being debated here is whether or not their current rules are on the wrong side of the 1st ammendment, and they clearly are.
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That's not what's against the rules, though - what's forbidden is insults, mockery and general harassment based on sexuality. How can intimidating another person be covered by free speech? I have no right to punch someone who calls me an idiot, based on "self-defence".
 
vergiss said:
It's all very well and logical to say "oh, well sod them, they're morons", but anyone who's been the target of bullies or harassment will tell you that as much as we understand that they're the wanker with a problem, it's still belittling, humiliating and hurtful.
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Exactly, and if it somehow seems like your shool/college is supporting them/encouraging them, it's even worse.
 
Deegan said:
I just don't buy in to it sir, people change, and I cannot, in good conscience, stand by while people tell others they are this way, and to accept it. I have a gentleman that works with me, he was gay for 20 years, he then met a nice girl, and is now married, his gay friends have treated him like a traitor, and mocked him behind his back. Why?

I think this speaks to what I am trying to get across here, and it's only one story, there are millions of others.
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Sounds to me like your coworker was bisexual.

When was the last time you CHOSE to be attracted to women instead of men? I don't recall ever making that choice for myself, it's something that happened involuntarily when I hit puberty. I can't, for the life of me, imagine saying, "hey, I'd rather sleep with men" and then all of a sudden I get turned on by seeing naked men and couldn't care less about naked women. It doesn't work that way.
 
It is a scary proposition that an issue can't be debated on a college campus. The policy seems too vague. What exactly does "put down" mean? There is a proper way to debate without "putting down" in an ad hominem attack. Dialogue is the only way towards growth and understanding. There is also a difference between "My faith tells me that homosexuality is wrong for me "and "My faith tells me that homosexuality is wrong for you" There is a difference between having and exercising your personal faith and trying to impose your personal faith on others.Trying to impose your faith on others is a violation of the others' exercising of religion.
 
Just don't project your own "gayness" on others, that is the moral to this story. Just because you are happy being with one sex, don't try to advance the theory that you don't have a choice, you do, and always will. Don't let people tell you, "oh, you're just bi sexual then" yesterday, you were just as gay as the next guy, but today, you really liked a chick, and now you're "BI" what a crock of s**t. People can change, and have, people can stay the same, and will, but don't put restrictions on relationships, it's not nice, it's not logical, and it's not at all supported by the facts!

I actually have an analogy, surprise!

It's like when woman tell men they can't have female friends, they tell us, you a man, that's just the way you are, you'll eventually want to f**k her, you know you will. This may be true for some, but not all, and they all still have this in common, choice, there is still a choice.
 
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independent_thinker2002 said:
There is also a difference between "My faith tells me that homosexuality is wrong for me "and "My faith tells me that homosexuality is wrong for you"
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Good point!

Deegan said:
Just don't project your own "gayness" on others, that is the moral to this story.
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So don't project your own "straightness" on gays either, right?

Deegan said:
Just because you are happy being with one sex, don't try to advance the theory that you don't have a choice, you do, and always will. Don't let people tell you, "oh, you're just bi sexual then" yesterday, you were just as gay as the next guy, but today, you really liked a chick, and now you're "BI" what a crock of s**t. People can change, and have, people can stay the same, and will, but don't put restrictions on relationships, it's not nice, it's not logical, and it's not at all supported by the facts!
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Does that mean you CAN imagine yourself making a choice to turn gay, and henceforth being attracted to men and not women?
 
Deegan said:
Just don't project your own "gayness" on others, that is the moral to this story. Just because you are happy being with one sex, don't try to advance the theory that you don't have a choice, you do, and always will. Don't let people tell you, "oh, you're just bi sexual then" yesterday, you were just as gay as the next guy, but today, you really liked a chick, and now you're "BI" what a crock of s**t. People can change, and have, people can stay the same, and will, but don't put restrictions on relationships, it's not nice, it's not logical, and it's not at all supported by the facts!
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Dude, could you seriously start humping other men tomorrow?

Religion is definitely a choice. That doesn't mean I condone insults and harassment based on the target's faith. There's no proof handedness is inherent, and people can switch hands when the usual hand has been injured, or when they've been forced to. Does that mean left-handers shouldn't carry on about it not being a "choice"? Should they cease to impose their "left-handedness" on others? "Boohoo that you're left-handed, you'll just have to use a right-hander's baseball mitt like everyone else!"
 
Binary_Digit said:
Good point!


So don't project your own "straightness" on gays either, right?


Does that mean you CAN imagine yourself making a choice to turn gay, and henceforth being attracted to men and not women?
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I'm not projecting "straightness" I'm projecting choice, hey, I just realized, I'm more tolerant then you, I win!:2wave:
 
Deegan said:
Just don't project your own "gayness" on others, that is the moral to this story. Just because you are happy being with one sex, don't try to advance the theory that you don't have a choice, you do, and always will. Don't let people tell you, "oh, you're just bi sexual then" yesterday, you were just as gay as the next guy, but today, you really liked a chick, and now you're "BI" what a crock of s**t. People can change, and have, people can stay the same, and will, but don't put restrictions on relationships, it's not nice, it's not logical, and it's not at all supported by the facts!
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Of course you don't let other people tell you who you love. Who ever made a decision to love someone though? People change, but not always by conscious decision. You like what you like, it is not a decision.

I do recognize the fact that your coworker's friends treating him as a traitor was very bigoted. I have seen first hand bigotry towards "breeders" from homosexuals. It surely doesn't help anyone's cause.
 
vergiss said:
Dude, could you seriously start humping other men tomorrow?

Religion is definitely a choice. That doesn't mean I condone insults and harassment based on the target's faith. There's no proof handedness is inherent, and people can switch hands when the usual hand has been injured, or when they've been forced to. Does that mean left-handers shouldn't carry on about it not being a "choice"? Should they cease to impose their "left-handedness" on others? "Boohoo that you're left-handed, you'll just have to use a right-hander's baseball mitt like everyone else!"
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I can't imagine that, but it happens all the time, so I would have to say I don't know. I love my wife, I'm very happy with our life, and I would never cheat on here, but God forbid, something happened, and we were not together, who knows, it's that damn choice thing again, I'm glad it's there.

Did that sound gay, you just had to go there didn't you.:3oops:
 
Deegan said:
I actually have an analogy, surprise!

It's like when woman tell men they can't have female friends, they tell us, you a man, that's just the way you are, you'll eventually want to f**k her, you know you will. This may be true for some, but not all, and they all still have this in common, choice, there is still a choice.
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What does this prove? A man that is attracted to women is attracted to women?!? Are you trying to steer this in a direction that acting on attractions is a choice? Yes, it is. The attraction itself is not a choice.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
What does this prove? A man that is attracted to women is attracted to women?!? Are you trying to steer this in a direction that acting on attractions is a choice? Yes, it is. The attraction itself is not a choice.
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No, you missed it, it's about choice, and men don't "always" do anything. Just as gays, don't always choose to remain gay, they may decide to go straight, it's their choice. It's not a disease folks, and you are treating it as if it is one, it's not, not even close.
 
Deegan said:
I can't imagine that, but it happens all the time, so I would have to say I don't know. I love my wife, I'm very happy with our life, and I would never cheat on here, but God forbid, something happened, and we were not together, who knows, it's that damn choice thing again, I'm glad it's there.

Did that sound gay, you just had to go there didn't you.:3oops:
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Awww, teh cute! :mrgreen:

Personally, I think you fall in love with the person, not their gender - which accounts for all those surprised new gays and straights. However, most of us have a preference for one sex over another, when it comes to the initial attraction - a prefence that is beyond out conscious control - and it's rare for that preference to change.
 
vergiss said:
Awww, teh cute! :mrgreen:

Personally, I think you fall in love with the person, not their gender - which accounts for all those surprised new gays and straights. However, most of us have a preference for one sex over another, when it comes to the initial attraction, a prefence that is beyond out conscious control, and it's rare for that preference to change.
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I agree it is rare, but it happens, and people should feel free to change their minds, and not be told, "you're gay, that's it, don't try to change, just accept it, you will never experience the other side, you're doomed I guess, or not, am I sounding hypocritical here?";)
 
Deegan said:
No, you missed it, it's about choice, and men don't "always" do anything. Just as gays, don't always choose to remain gay, they may decide to go straight, it's their choice. It's not a disease folks, and you are treating it as if it is one, it's not, not even close.
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And here we are at the question that gets no answer. When did you choose to be straight? Is it a daily decision?

Why on earth would one choose to be gay?
 
Deegan said:
I agree it is rare, but it happens, and people should feel free to change their minds, and not be told, "you're gay, that's it, don't try to change, just accept it, you will never experience the other side, you're doomed I guess, or not, am I sounding hypocritical here?";)
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Wouldn't that be the exception rather than the rule, though? If it's rare, then you can't say that it's a choice for all gays.

Um, guys... methinks this has turned all into a THREAD HIJACK! :2razz:
 
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