Christians and the GOP

[nota bene]

Social change, individual change, and change of heart does not always equate to political change.....sorry, your claim just does not hold water. Christ even encouraged his disciples to follow established law.......he was not the revolutionary that some historical revisionists would make him out to be. Sorry, but you are simply wrong here.

Yes, Christ did encourage His disciples to follow established law. He did not preach about "organizing"; He talked about individual conscience. He said to pick up your Cross and follow Him--to act justly and righteously, to lead by example, to remember that inasmuch as you have done it unto one of the very least of our brethren, you have done it unto Him.

 

[Cardinal Fang]

wrong! congress can lay taxes, but it cant treat people differently, meaning it cant punish people or single out people because they have more wealth, the government has to treat every one equal....what is taxation, it is the rising of revenue...not a tool of government to get even with people who have more money! government has no authority to redistribute wealth, and they cannot be venture capitalist, and hand out loans to people of institutions, that is crony- capitalism an illegal.......education ,to our federal government is unconstitutional...so is housing! government has no authority too set wages on private citizen, because it is contract, government has no power under the constitution to interfere with contract , if no violation of rights have taken place. discrimination laws on citizens business, are illegal...the 14th amendment states government cannot discriminate, not citizens. under the constitution my property rights are mine, not governments, as long as i don't violate other rights with my property, i can do as i please with it. and when a person in on someone else's property he has no rights!.....they cant kill you of enslave you , because that's criminal, but you don't have free speech, assembly rights, free to worship, bare a firearm......you only have a privilege that the owners allows you! by the way, ...we are under the banner of the Constitution is this forum!

Since I'm not willing to do it, you need to spend a very, very, very, very, very, very long time fact-checking this, since virtually every word of it is utter nonsense.

 

[Master PO]

Since I'm not willing to do it, you need to spend a very, very, very, very, very, very long time fact-checking this, since virtually every word of it is utter nonsense.

really!........ every word?


so government does not have too treat every citizen equally.

 

[Cardinal Fang]

really!........ every word? so government does not have too treat every citizen equally.

Virtually every word. And quite obviously no, equal protection does NOT mean that the government is expected to treat every cititzen equally. Your ability to confuse and distort the law is staggering.

 

[Master PO]

Virtually every word. And quite obviously no, equal protection does NOT mean that the government is expected to treat every cititzen equally. Your ability to confuse and distort the law is staggering.

virtually...wow! where will you go from here?.......government has to treat everyone equal, it cant discriminate.... it cant favor one citizen over another. that is the basic of basics of the constitution.

 

[Medusa]

in my opinion ,christ wouldnt like to be used for political aims..

 

[Paschendale]

You only have to read the incessant jeering, smearing and ridiculing of Christianity and Christians by Democrat partisan hacks on this forum, who will even inject their religious bigotry into topics having nothing to do with religion, to understand why. If a group incessantly tries to belittle and insult you, you will naturally dislike that group.

So do you basically discount any criticism of Christianity that isn't primarily concerned with catering to the feelings of those being criticized?

wrong! congress can lay taxes, but it cant treat people differently, meaning it cant punish people or single out people because they have more wealth, the government has to treat every one equal....what is taxation, it is the rising of revenue...not a tool of government to get even with people who have more money!

This is entirely untrue. It can and does treat a lot of people differently, but it has rules about who and why it can do this with.

by the way, ...we are under the banner of the Constitution is this forum!

Pull that attitude when you get an infraction. See how far that gets you.

so government does not have too treat every citizen equally.

No. For example, the ADA singles out special protections for people with disabilities. If the government could not treat some people differently, then it could not do this.

 

[Master PO]

So do you basically discount any criticism of Christianity that isn't primarily concerned with catering to the feelings of those being criticized?



This is entirely untrue. It can and does treat a lot of people differently, but it has rules about who and why it can do this with.



Pull that attitude when you get an infraction. See how far that gets you.



No. For example, the ADA singles out special protections for people with disabilities. If the government could not treat some people differently, then it could not do this.

i do not understand, what attitude are you speaking of sir?

i was referring to ,the statement of heres the Constitution again type statement, which i stated, we are under the constitution part of a forum..so it applies... is my meaning..it was not an insult by me, i dont not engage in such practices.

rights cannot be treated differently, that is unconstitutional, privileges can be treated differently.

the ADA is unconstitutional on private property, but not government property, the14th amendment states only government cant discriminate.

private property is a absolute, and federal law does not trump natural rights....this is the basis of republican government, which is what the constitution states article 4 section 4.

 

[Paschendale]

i do not understand, what attitude are you speaking of sir?

i was referring to ,the statement of heres the Constitution again type statement, which i stated, we are under the constitution part of a forum..so it applies... is my meaning..it was not an insult by me, i dont not engage in such practices.

rights cannot be treated differently, that is unconstitutional, privileges can be treated differently.

the ADA is unconstitutional on private property, but not government property, the14th amendment states only government cant discriminate.

private property is a absolute, and federal law does not trump natural rights....this is the basis of republican government, which is what the constitution states article 4 section 4.

You can think that all you like, but two centuries of American jurisprudence will disagree with you.

 

[rocket88]

You can think that all you like, but two centuries of American jurisprudence will disagree with you.

That doesn't matter, libertartians seem to have this idea that they read the Constitution once and therefore know it better than Supreme Court justices.

With regards to Christianity and the GOP, if Jesus were invited to the GOP Convention, He'd undoubtedly decline to attend. Of course they didn't invite Him, because he might turn over the moneychangers tables or something. Too "Occupy" you know.

 

[rocket88]

in my opinion ,christ wouldnt like to be used for political aims..

WWJD? Probably have words with whoever sells those t-shirts!

 

[Master PO]

You can think that all you like, but two centuries of American jurisprudence will disagree with you.

that is why republican government is almost gone, because the federal government has been killing it.

Sandra Day O'Connor calls america a democracy, she being a judge would know better being she has the know constitutional law and the federalist papers.

but anyone who read both knows, democracy in the USA iS illegal according to the constitution and the federalist papers.

 

[Master PO]

That doesn't matter, libertartians seem to have this idea that they read the Constitution once and therefore know it better than Supreme Court justices.

With regards to Christianity and the GOP, if Jesus were invited to the GOP Convention, He'd undoubtedly decline to attend. Of course they didn't invite Him, because he might turn over the moneychangers tables or something. Too "Occupy" you know.

my friend, i have been told repeatably i am wrong, but i have yet had anyone challenge what i put forth, with the writings of the founders, in the founding documents or the federalist papers.

if you can please show me, where i am wrong instead of just saying i am, and show me where the founders, contradict my statements i will...... bow too your knowledge.

 

[Paschendale]

my friend, i have been told repeatably i am wrong, but i have yet had anyone challenge what i put forth, with the writings of the founders, in the founding documents or the federalist papers.

if you can please show me, where i am wrong instead of just saying i am, and show me where the founders, contradict my statements i will...... bow too your knowledge.

Our government is not a "be all, end all" of what the founders said. They're all dead. They also implemented a system where law and government could change. And it has. We do not have to arrange everything according to what people who have been dead for almost 200 years thought.

Also the Federalist Papers are not law. Neither is Common Sense, or the Declaration of Independence, or anything else written by anyone ever other than actual laws, court opinions, or the constitution.

If you want to comment on our government and law, learn how they work.

 

[Master PO]

Our government is not a "be all, end all" of what the founders said. They're all dead. They also implemented a system where law and government could change. And it has. We do not have to arrange everything according to what people who have been dead for almost 200 years thought.

Also the Federalist Papers are not law. Neither is Common Sense, or the Declaration of Independence, or anything else written by anyone ever other than actual laws, court opinions, or the constitution.

If you want to comment on our government and law, learn how they work.

the federalist papers explain the constitution and what it means.

what i put forth, is what the founders have said, you or others and not show me, what i say is incorrect.

now you can say things, get up tight, buts it you my friend who need the learn the meaning of what was created, and is not legal and legal.

so you don't like what is say, when do not brother to reply too me, its a very simple process.

good day too you.

 

[Cardinal Fang]

virtually...wow! where will you go from here?.......government has to treat everyone equal, it cant discriminate.... it cant favor one citizen over another. that is the basic of basics of the constitution.

Equal protection might mean that I can't tax your $75K income at a higher rate than your neighbor's $75K income. It most certainly does NOT mean that I can't tax Thurston's $750K income at a higher rate than your $75K income. You have this whole concept all balled up into one massive hodge-podge of confusion.

 

[Cardinal Fang]

the ADA is unconstitutional on private property, but not government property, the14th amendment states only government cant discriminate.

ADA covers all private property deemed to be serving as a public accommodation. Learn some law for a change.

private property is a absolute, and federal law does not trump natural rights....this is the basis of republican government, which is what the constitution states article 4 section 4.

If private property were an absolute, there wouldn't be a Takings Clause, there is no such thing as natural rights -- only rights established, maintained, and defended by society, and the entire text of Article 4, Section 4 appears below...

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

It says nothing at all about what the bases of a republican form of government might be. Like so much other stuff, you simply made that up.

 

[Smeagol]

I've often wondered why Christians support the GOP so vehemently. Its true the GOP holds some "Christian" values such as opposition to gay marriage and abortion, but I don't recall reading about Jesus harping on these issues. The GOP doesn't seem to hold the more important values of Christianity ( Charity and compassion on the poor, sick, and elderly). They give tax breaks to millionares and cut funding for what little the poor of this country have (Welfare,Medicare, etc...) I don't remember Jesus ever telling thw poor to "get a job" or the sick "you should've gotten a better HMO). I'm being faciscious obviously, but in all sincerity it seenms all Christian morals are null in the GOP.

I also don't get this "Christian nation" hangup. Didn't Jesus say Christians would be persecuted and hated and reviled for their faith? Beaten, tortured, thrown in jail, and killed for his sake? Wasn't the early church nomadic in a sense? Its not like we're in China or Laos just because gays can marry and you can't hold prayers in classrooms, or women have a choice to have a baby or not. It seems to me Christians should support the ones who want more socialistic things than supporting the rich getting richer, but thats just me. end of rant.

Its a few things. You're right that gay marriage and abortion are big issues to Evangelicals but I think you minimize their importance.

I understand non-Evangelicals see abortion differently but to many Evangelicals abortion is nothing short of legalized per-meditated murder. As citizens, Evangelicals feel the need to promote policies that limit abortion and the GOP, at least to some extent includes such policies in its platform. At the same time the Democrats not only do not welcome pro-life (anti-abortion) policies but push for the more extreme positions on the issues; namely partial birth, tax-payer funded, no parental notification or consent if a minor is involved (excluding Mitt Romney when running for Governor of MA) and a SCOTUS nominee litmus test as agreeing with Roe V. Wade, again all in pursuit of what Evangelicals consider legalized murder.

The gay rights issue position is rooted the Bible. Although its often taken out of context, Evangelicals consider the Bible to be the supreme law for mankind. There is a lot Biblical admonition on homosexuality and also key, examples of entire population centers coming under devastating calamity, gay and hetro alike once homosexuality is normalized in society. Even outside of the Bible, Evangelicals affirm the position that homosexuality triggers calamity on the whole society when looking to the history of the Greek and Roman Empires. Once homosexuality was widespread and seen as normal, the end of their empires came shortly thereafter and a spiritual causative relation is presumed. Evangelicals opposing the gay political agenda isn't about hate or bigotry from their perspective but rather its about saving America from its inevitable demise. It might sound like an overreaction but they honestly think the gay political agenda threatens the survival of America.

Additionally, its been the Democrats who generally oppose Christianity in the culture. School choice for private Christian school, In God We Trust on US currency, Christmas nativity scenes, school prayer and football games and graduations, keeping "One nation under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, etc. etc. are all seen as generally being opposed by Democrats sometimes aggressively opposed.

 

[Monserrat]

I've often wondered why Christians support the GOP so vehemently. Its true the GOP holds some "Christian" values such as opposition to gay marriage and abortion, but I don't recall reading about Jesus harping on these issues. The GOP doesn't seem to hold the more important values of Christianity ( Charity and compassion on the poor, sick, and elderly). They give tax breaks to millionares and cut funding for what little the poor of this country have (Welfare,Medicare, etc...) I don't remember Jesus ever telling thw poor to "get a job" or the sick "you should've gotten a better HMO). I'm being faciscious obviously, but in all sincerity it seenms all Christian morals are null in the GOP.

I also don't get this "Christian nation" hangup. Didn't Jesus say Christians would be persecuted and hated and reviled for their faith? Beaten, tortured, thrown in jail, and killed for his sake? Wasn't the early church nomadic in a sense? Its not like we're in China or Laos just because gays can marry and you can't hold prayers in classrooms, or women have a choice to have a baby or not. It seems to me Christians should support the ones who want more socialistic things than supporting the rich getting richer, but thats just me. end of rant.

When it comes to the Christians I know it basically all boils down to the abortion issue, everything else is just static noise. It's really simple black and white logic:

1. Once conceived the Zygote, embryo, and then fetus thingy is a human with a soul.
2. Aborting said human with a soul is murder.
3. Democratic candidates are in favor of abortion being legal
4. Democratic candidates are in favor of murder being legal.

So if you think about it that way it makes perfect sense as to why that type of christian would only side with one particular party line, they may like aspects of the other but they can't align themselves with a side that allows "children" to be murdered.

 

[Master PO]

ADA covers all private property deemed to be serving as a public accommodation. Learn some law for a change.


If private property were an absolute, there wouldn't be a Takings Clause, there is no such thing as natural rights -- only rights established, maintained, and defended by society, and the entire text of Article 4, Section 4 appears below...

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

It says nothing at all about what the bases of a republican form of government might be. Like so much other stuff, you simply made that up.

tell me?

how does a federal law like the ADA , passed by politicians, override the natural rights you and i have which are (unalienable), and cannot be taken away by government, since government is supposed to protect your rights?

natural rights existed before the Constitution , as the founders list in the DOI.

my property rights are as just as strong as my speech rights.

taking clause?.........their is no such thing, there are only 3 clauses which government has used to say they have authority, welfare clause, commerce clause, and supremacy clause.

really? no natural rights, it seems you have not read the founding documents at all.

really? no republican government, and no republicanism, like the founders say america is supposed to practice in the federalist papers?

made up?......no its ALL there for you too read in the federalist papers, and what the founders say about our government in there writings

i have asked many people on this forum, not to just read what i say, but go and seek the truth, of what i am saying but reading, those documents, ...i know they can be long and a dry read, but its the only way you can read the truth for yourself.

if you wish not too read it, and listen to what other people tell you without confirming it, well then your going to believe a lot of falsehoods.......about our government and it founders.

how many times have we been told america was a democracy, ...and its is not?..........

 

[Master PO]

Equal protection might mean that I can't tax your $75K income at a higher rate than your neighbor's $75K income. It most certainly does NOT mean that I can't tax Thurston's $750K income at a higher rate than your $75K income. You have this whole concept all balled up into one massive hodge-podge of confusion.

here is one example of what i mean, government is here to treat every equal, taxes are used to create revenue for our government, although government can have a progressive tax rate and tax people differently.

government cannot single out citizens, on radio, tv, and preach to the nation, that one class of people has more than other class, if cant use propaganda, to try the sway the public against another class, it is supposed to work for all the people, not create a situation of class warfare.

because it is using taxpayer money to run the government, how can government use money paid in by rich tax payers....(who the top 1% pay 40% of all the taxes) to promote, things against the very same rich tax payers by saying they are greedy, saying derogatory things about them, government cannot degrade that very public that is paying them.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

…there is no such thing as natural rights -- only rights established, maintained, and defended by society…

That's not what the great men who founded this nation believed, and that is not a principle upon which this nation was founded. If that's what you believe, then you're living in the wrong country. Your position is inconsistent with that of a citizen of a free country, and more consistent with a subject of a European-style monarchy.

From the Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.— That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…​

 

[Master PO]

That's not what the great men who founded this nation believed, and that is not a principle upon which this nation was founded. If that's what you believe, then you're living in the wrong country. Your position is inconsistent with that of a citizen of a free country, and more consistent with a subject of a European-style monarchy.

From the Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.— That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…​

thank you wise sir, you have posted the main objective of government....to secure the rights of the people...bravo!

 

[Master PO]

The Declaration of Independence declares that "the laws of Nature and Nature's God" are the source of man's rights. The natural rights listed and protected by the Bill of Rights existed before government, and in no way depend on government for their existence. The U.S. Supreme Court has declared this fact. These are known as absolute rights. Absolute rights belong to us due to the nature of our existence, are "unalienable" and "self-evident."

America was founded as a republic - a "nation of laws." In a republic the government is formed by - and constrained by - laws. But America has decayed into a democracy in which voters pass any law they please, and government is virtually unlimited in its ability to make laws, interpret the laws, and apply the laws with increasing force.

An individual must know his or her RIGHTS, understand that they are absolute rights not subject to government, and these rights must be forcefully claimed and exercised.

 

[clownboy]

I've often wondered why Christians support the GOP so vehemently. Its true the GOP holds some "Christian" values such as opposition to gay marriage and abortion, but I don't recall reading about Jesus harping on these issues. The GOP doesn't seem to hold the more important values of Christianity ( Charity and compassion on the poor, sick, and elderly). They give tax breaks to millionares and cut funding for what little the poor of this country have (Welfare,Medicare, etc...) I don't remember Jesus ever telling thw poor to "get a job" or the sick "you should've gotten a better HMO). I'm being faciscious obviously, but in all sincerity it seenms all Christian morals are null in the GOP.

I also don't get this "Christian nation" hangup. Didn't Jesus say Christians would be persecuted and hated and reviled for their faith? Beaten, tortured, thrown in jail, and killed for his sake? Wasn't the early church nomadic in a sense? Its not like we're in China or Laos just because gays can marry and you can't hold prayers in classrooms, or women have a choice to have a baby or not. It seems to me Christians should support the ones who want more socialistic things than supporting the rich getting richer, but thats just me. end of rant.

Google Ralph Reed for the answer. Much like blacks were captured as a demographic for the democrats, christians have been wooed and signed onto the GOP. When a demographic is adopted by a party, and the tactic is successful, the opposition party tries to neitralize the demographic. The more the attachment grows the more opposition tries to marginalize them - making the attachment semi-permanent.