Chinese Automakers Would You Buy One?

[dseag2]

For a couple of reasons. China's government and the fact that electric cars even from Japan, Korea and the US have low scores on the reliability scale. I would buy an EV in a heartbeat but they have not reached the level of reliability that gas-powered or hybrid cars have. Also, the charging stations are an issue in many states and when really cold weather arrives you're done.

EVs Are Getting More Reliable, but They Still Lag Behind Hybrids and Gas-Only Cars - Consumer Reports

Consumer Reports shares insights about how electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) compare against traditional cars in reliability, based on owner surveys.

www.consumerreports.org

 

[ThirdTerm]

A cheap-looking car in my neighborhood caught fire a few month ago. I immediately suspected a short circuit as a cause and the car was possibly made in China or South Korea.

BYD electric car catches fire at Hong Kong charging station

Photos of the scene show the BYD car’s bonnet and tyre were damaged, with the charging cable left connected to vehicle.

www.scmp.com

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Very good post except for the last line.

It's better to keep manufacturing offshore? Why is that a good thing? Other than cheaper labor costs and worker safety requirements?

 

[Stealers Wheel]

The Ford Pinto was an EXCELLENT car with one fatal flaw...nothing else on that car was bad or defective.
By the way, the Pinto was not the first car to use that chassis or powertrain.
The Pinto used a 1600cc four cylinder engine that European Ford service literature referred to as the Taunus In-Line engine or Lima In-Line (LL)
Later examples of the Lima went all the way up to 2.3 liters.

It was designed and manufactured in Lima, Ohio but had enjoyed a good history prior to the 1970's in all kinds of English Ford cars.
The only defect was poor protection for the fuel tank and that is due to Ford USA top brass deciding that shouldering "a few personal injury lawsuits" was cheaper than the cost to recall, redesign and retrofit all the early models, a particularly cruel and barbaric example of corporate malfeasance and criminal negligence.

But aside from that the Pinto was a fine automobile and a good many owners embarked on third party solutions to protect the fuel tank once the defect became public, like this center reinforcement piece that reduced impact damage from rear end collisions and spread the impact to the frame rather than the gas tank.

View attachment 67496087

For my money the best example of a flop would be the Chevy Vega.

I owned both a Pinto and Vega. Pinto was a far superior car to the Vega. Vega had an aluminum block. Big, big mistake, IMO.

 

[rhinefire]

The Ford Pinto was an EXCELLENT car with one fatal flaw...nothing else on that car was bad or defective.
By the way, the Pinto was not the first car to use that chassis or powertrain.
The Pinto used a 1600cc four cylinder engine that European Ford service literature referred to as the Taunus In-Line engine or Lima In-Line (LL)
Later examples of the Lima went all the way up to 2.3 liters.

It was designed and manufactured in Lima, Ohio but had enjoyed a good history prior to the 1970's in all kinds of English Ford cars.
The only defect was poor protection for the fuel tank and that is due to Ford USA top brass deciding that shouldering "a few personal injury lawsuits" was cheaper than the cost to recall, redesign and retrofit all the early models, a particularly cruel and barbaric example of corporate malfeasance and criminal negligence.

But aside from that the Pinto was a fine automobile and a good many owners embarked on third party solutions to protect the fuel tank once the defect became public, like this center reinforcement piece that reduced impact damage from rear end collisions and spread the impact to the frame rather than the gas tank.

View attachment 67496087

For my money the best example of a flop would be the Chevy Vega.

"A fine automobile" that exploded into a fireball killing everyone inside from a rear-end collision. IDIOTIC is a better definition than EXCELLENT.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

I saw a documentary on this subject of China's production and export of its vehicles. I would never buy one because of their politics and, lack of pollution regulations.

I wouldn’t purchase one because of their long track record of cutting corners and producing crap.

Cheap isn’t better if cheap is also far less quality.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

"A fine automobile" that exploded into a fireball killing everyone inside from a rear-end collision. IDIOTIC is a better definition than EXCELLENT.

You may want to look more closely, as the number of incidents was far less than, for example, VW Bugs that would explode on frontal impacts due to gas tanks placed in the front with only a CARDBOARD barrier separating the gasoline from the electrical connections.
Sorry but while the Pinto had a fatal flaw that I ALREADY POINTED OUT, the fact is, the Pinto's vulnerability was not much worse than many other cars that also had bad ideas that could lead to deadly results.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I owned both a Pinto and Vega. Pinto was a far superior car to the Vega. Vega had an aluminum block. Big, big mistake, IMO.

Yup, that's all I was saying.
The Pinto had its faults and it had the potential for fuel fires on high speed rear impacts if you didn't install the reinforcement piece, which a bunch of folks DID do because it was cheap and easy.
But overall it was a fine little car for the money and in the intervening years a TON of other Ford products have wound up using almost the exact same design and layout with the minor mods needed to do away with the danger.
The base model Mustang II with the 2300cc four banger WAS essentially a gussied up Ford Pinto with a better steering box.

 

[noonereal]

It's better to keep manufacturing offshore? Why is that a good thing? Other than cheaper labor costs and worker safety requirements?

Do you want to pay 2 grand for a TV rather than one?
How about food? You want to pay triple?
It has benefited us post WW2 has it not?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Do you want to pay 2 grand for a TV rather than one?

If the TV set is repairable and upgradeable, yes absolutely I would cheerfully pay two grand.
I did in fact pay 1800 dollars for an early HD plasma and, if the screen had been larger than 40 inches I would have repaired it and/or upgraded it for another fifteen year lease on life.
The only reason I didn't was because I wanted something in the 55 inch range instead and in 2009 a 55 inch screen was ten times what it costs now.
I will use my HiSense Chinese TV for the four or five years it functions but when it fails I'll be another person contributing to landfills because it is basically a supersized tablet but it is designed to be less repairable than a tablet.

 

[rhinefire]

You may want to look more closely, as the number of incidents was far less than, for example, VW Bugs that would explode on frontal impacts due to gas tanks placed in the front with only a CARDBOARD barrier separating the gasoline from the electrical connections.
Sorry but while the Pinto had a fatal flaw that I ALREADY POINTED OUT, the fact is, the Pinto's vulnerability was not much worse than many other cars that also had bad ideas that could lead to deadly results.

Where were the VWs made? You failed to describe the details. Why not? Odd that IF what you post is true why is Pinto top on the list of exploding death traps?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Where were the VWs made? You failed to describe the details. Why not? Odd that IF what you post is true why is Pinto top on the list of exploding death traps?

I didn't fail to provide details.
I pointed out that a bog standard VW bug had the gas tank in the trunk, and that the only thing separating the fuel tank from the electrical was a cardboard piece on top of the firewall.
In fact, older models had the fuel FILLER in the trunk, you had to open the trunk to add fuel.

You know where Bugs are made.

Approximately thirty people died in Ford Pinto fires.
Your luck may be worse with certain Kia or Hyundai models.

Your luck may be worse with certain Kia or Hyundai models.

 

[SayMyName]

Hmmm, if the exhibits at the recent Shanghai International Auto show are any example, it sure would be hard to say, "No."

 

[dseag2]

I didn't fail to provide details.
I pointed out that a bog standard VW bug had the gas tank in the trunk, and that the only thing separating the fuel tank from the electrical was a cardboard piece on top of the firewall.
In fact, older models had the fuel FILLER in the trunk, you had to open the trunk to add fuel.

You know where Bugs are made.

Approximately thirty people died in Ford Pinto fires.
Your luck may be worse with certain Kia or Hyundai models.

Your luck may be worse with certain Kia or Hyundai models.

Sorry, but I would be giddy to see a Ford Expedition or Lincoln Navigator catch fire with a soccer mom on her phone inside. As long as she wasn't injured it would make my day.

 

[stevecanuck]

You might already own one. Some Volvo, Mercedes, GM and Ford/Lincoln models are made in China.

It pains me greatly to see the MG (Morris Garages) logo on a Chinese-made car.

 

[Allan]

It pains me greatly to see the MG (Morris Garages) logo on a Chinese-made car.

One thing China does is steal designs. When I lived there a popular car for taxis was a vehicle with an Elantra exterior and a Corolla interior. But the materials and build were cheap. The dashboard warped in the south China heat, door latches fell apart etc.

They were planning on releasing a car that was a duplicate of Mercedes C Class. But Mercedes raised hell and threatened to pull production. The Chinese manufacturer backed down and changed the design.

 

[SayMyName]

You might already own one. Some Volvo, Mercedes, GM and Ford/Lincoln models are made in China.

You are right about that, Allan. In those cases where the automobile is not entirely built, a good part of or the many parts are produced here. One plant in Xianju, Zhejiang Province makes 60 % of the water pumps for most cars and trucks being produced around the world. Volvo is now rolling out some models in Europe that are mainly produced in its plants in Luqiao and Ningbo, then shipped to Sweden for finishing. Could be the same in the US. Not sure. Mirror glass for high end vehicles such as Audi and BMW and many others are produced in Xinjiang Province, though they are branded as being manufactured in Henan Province before being forwarded to the prospective auto manufacturers. There is a lot more, but that should shed some light on the subject. It all reminds me of a similar situation in the past...

 

[ralfy]

That reminds me of one of Reich's Work of Nations. I think in one chapter he talked about American cars with engines designed in one country, parts made in several, advertising, marketing, and costumer support outsourced in still others, with at least half of investors foreigners.