• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

China signals opening for trade talks with US

Not “we”

Boomers and older than Boomer Americans.

Gen X and younger weren’t the ones calling those shots - Boomers and older were. They were the ones calling the shots, running the companies, making the bulk of the purchases because they controlled and had the money, driving the change.

All manipulated by marketing and corporate interests…and promises of trickle down wealth. Reinforced by being able to buy the latest color tv at Walmart cheap or the flashy imported car.

Those were the generations making the decisions that got us into this damn mess and bringing the Walmarts, etc of the world into existence - chasing the latest and greatest and cheapest stuff.

Put Ronald Reagan into office. Completely gutted the US middle class because of that decision…and his policies…all that benefit the absolute richest, to the expense of everyone else.

And now that they’ve gone and had their fun and enjoyed enormous wealth and prosperity as Americans in comparison to the rest of the world…while breaking down unions, giving out corporate tax cuts and tax cuts to the wealthy, etc…expanding the wealth disparity GINI coefficients in this country - and thoroughly broken shit…the same people want to come back with the “well back in the day” nostalgia.

It’s not back in the day. It’s 2025.

The world has changed and there is no going back.

There are paths forward…but a tariff war with the entire world and pissing on all of our allies and going against trade agreements we’ve signed, etc…isn’t it.

But, hey…the voters spoke. This is the path the US is on.

Buckle up. We are only 100 days in.
 
anatta said:
China's dependence on US trade.
Click to expand...

It's not "dependence" when both sides benefit - Americans want the goods just as much as China wants to sell them. Forcing the U.S. to make everything domestically would make us dramatically poorer. Specialization and comparative advantage is what makes markets efficient and wealth-generating. Hitler tried making Germany self-sufficient and it was a disaster.
 
BirdinHand said:
Not “we”
Click to expand...
Yes, we. We still flock to WalMart and buy Chinese goods because they're cheaper. (My wife and I avoid anything made in China, whenever possible.) I get it. By buying the Chinese product we can buy more, other Chinese products. And at some income levels, we don't have much choice. With just a little discipline, though, we can get by on one less pair of shoes, or the very latest video game. And maybe we'll help to create another US job or two. More jobs mean more people paying income tax and, maybe, more government services with lower taxes for each one of us.
 
RetiredAtLast said:
American consumers, in many cases, have the choice not to buy Chinese goods, even if they cost a bit more.
Click to expand...

Goods made in America do not cost a bit more, they cost a lot more. Not a big deal if you're only buying one thing, but it's not one thing it's close to everything. China is the manufacturing powerhouse of the world, and by a wide margin. They make everything. Force us to buy made in America products means our standard of living goes down significantly, because our buying power would go down significantly.
 
We do not have a job shortage problem.

(Well, we didn’t…)

We couldn’t fill the jobs we HAD open in the manufacturing sector. Or ANY sector. Companies have been trying desperately to HIRE people for years (minus the Covid glitch)

We were at effectively a full employment economy. We have been relying on immigrants - of ALL types - because we simply did not have enough people of all types of skills - domestically.

Our problem has been stagnant wages not keeping up with the cost of living - and there’s NOTHING about what Trump is doing that’s going to change that.

In fact, it will make it worse.

Oh…and he’s also going to hand out tax cuts, AGAIN…increasing the deficit….again.
 
This and another post of yours read as if someone is suggesting that the US be "self sufficient." No one is. And no one is suggesting that Americans be forced to buy American. The current tariff argument is as much about tariffs imposed by China on US goods (125%) that make it impossible for US good to compete IN CHINA. Now, I don't know which American products could compete in China if they were sold there at lower prices, but the idea behind the tariff hikes ON China is that both countries should lower their tariffs, making Chinese products remain at the low prices of two months ago, and a demand of some size created IN CHINA for some US made products.
 
BirdinHand said:
We do not have a job shortage problem.
Click to expand...
We have a debt problem. We spend more of your tax money for interest on the National Debt than we do for anything else! We can either generate more tax revenue by having more people paying taxes, or we can raise taxes on you and me, or we can learn to do without some government services and benefits. Personally, I'd like to see some of the 7 or 8 million unemployed people working and paying taxes.
BirdinHand said:
Our problem has been stagnant wages not keeping up with the cost of living
Click to expand...
Since you apparently want to make it partisan, during Trump's first term median wages grew faster than inflation.
BirdinHand said:
Oh…and he’s also going to hand out tax cuts, AGAIN…increasing the deficit….again.
Click to expand...
Mostly, he's going to keep the same tax rates from 2017 (the ones that Biden didn't increase), and reduce some taxes for working people (no tax on tips or overtime), seniors (no tax on Social Security), young families (tax deduction on home interest and for local taxes).
 
Perhaps you could start walking the walk by buying Trump sneakers.

Oh wait, he has them made in China.
 
Buster Keaton said:
China is hurting.
They are having labor protests because factories are shutting down.
Click to expand...
No they are not. They are still selling to the rest of the world and that is 85% of their exports. We are the ones that are going to suffer in a few months when 1000's of small businesses go under and layoffs are raging. Most Chinese goods are sold by American companies and all their employees will be laid off. Plus our own exports are plummeting more than China's and no one is visiting here anymore.
 
RetiredAtLast said:
Do you really want to keep having a $300 billion trade deficit with China? That's $300 billion of our money supporting their military, buying their weapons to use against Taiwan - or us!
Click to expand...
Do you even know what a trade deficit is? Do you really think it is a problem that Americans are richer than the Chinese? That is what Trump is "fixing". Soon Americans will be too poor to buy all those goods. We buy 15% of China's exports. Do you think losing us as customers will cause China to stop building up their military? I think our weakness will cause them to build up faster.
 
RetiredAtLast said:
Personally, I'd like to see some of the 7 or 8 million unemployed people working and paying taxes
Click to expand...
Hate to break it to you - but many of them are largely unemployable in any capacity that would allow them to be economically viable

Lacking skills, lacking personal motivation, suffering from mental health afflictions and/or addictions, stuck in unfortunate personal circumstances that make them unable to work, etc.

4% unemployment is considered a “full employment economy” because you will NEVER have a 100% employment rate. We were about as good as could have been hoped for.

Know who paid a ton of tax money and got very little in return? Immigrants. .

The immigrants we desperately need to fill jobs. And pay taxes
RetiredAtLast said:
Since you apparently want to make it partisan, during Trump's first term median wages grew faster than inflation
Click to expand...
Wage growth compared to inflation was higher under Obama and slowed under Trump in the first term

Then we had his mismanagement of Covid and THAT cliff we went over. Not to mention all the lives lost.
The tax cuts that increased our deficit? And will again increase our deficit?

Which is it - is the deficit a problem or not?
 
Last edited:
Stop mentioning Trump's first term. It was a disaster that included increasing our debt by $8 trillion and 100's of 1000's of Americans dying from covid at higher rates than any other nation. And that is nothing compared to what he is doing now. His approval is dropping fast and is still high because the layoffs from his trade war have not really started yet.
 
Of course the comedy here is the Chinese government never said it didn't want to negotiate, and did so before the tariff fiasco was launched. The caveat here is their government is considering talks, but with the condition the US remove the tariffs.
 
phoenix2020 said:
Even Donald manufactures his shoes in China, and you will not see @L88 nor any other MAGA directly confront their lord and savior about it.
Click to expand...

It's nice to have a fan club but I'm not even close to being MAGA.

Your simple binary thinking is no different than a hardcore MAGA.
 
Context is important. The US is the one who has been approaching China wanting talks. China is saying they are open to that but only if the US drops their tarriffs . So unless Trump backs off his tariffs there will be no talks.

“At the same time, the U.S. has recently sent messages to China through relevant parties many times, hoping to talk with China,” the spokesperson added. “China is currently evaluating this.”

"In its statement Friday, the Chinese Commerce Ministry suggested it was waiting for Washington to make the first move, before any formal negotiations can begin.

“We have noticed that the United States has been leaking information about adjusting tariff measures recently,” the spokesperson said. “China wants to emphasize is that in any possible dialogue or talks, if the United States does not correct its wrong unilateral tariff measures, it means that the United States has no sincerity at all and will further damage the mutual trust between the two sides.”

“Saying one thing and doing another, or even trying to coerce and blackmail under the guise of talks, will not work with China,” they added."

China ‘evaluating’ possible trade talks with U.S.

Beijing has noted comments by senior U.S. officials expressing willingness to negotiate, Chinese Ministry of Commerce says
www.theglobeandmail.com
 
Reactions: L88
I thought Trump said, repeatedly, they were already in talks?
 
Who here thinks they really understand what is taking place. I speak to tariffs alone now.
 
Callen said:
Context is important. The US is the one who has been approaching China wanting talks. China is saying they are open to that but only if the US drops their tarriffs . So unless Trump backs off his tariffs there will be no talks.
Click to expand...
Bingo!

The Fox news crowd knows none of this.
 
Correct. And we have all lived very well as a result. There is no reason to declare war now. None. Zero. Zilch.

All we are doing is making China stronger and the USA weaker. You do realize this, right?
 
noonereal said:
Who here thinks they really understand what is taking place. I speak to tariffs alone now.
Click to expand...
The evil DJT is playing the same zero-sum game as the Chinese play. He says his mission is to increase domestic manufacturing.

As part of an ongoing trade war, US President Donald Trump has placed tariffs of up to 145% on Chinese goods. China has hit back with a 125% tax on US products.

Trump has also introduced a 10% tax on goods from the vast majority of other countries, while pausing much higher rates for dozens of other nations for 90 days.

He argues that tariffs will boost US manufacturing and protect jobs, but the world economy has been thrown into chaos, and prices are expected to rise.

The International Monetary Fund (IMF) has cut its global growth forecast because of the uncertainty caused by tariffs, and says it expects the US to be hit the hardest.

What are tariffs, how do they work and why is Trump using them?

Tariffs are a key part of the US president's political vision but economists fear a global trade war.
www.bbc.com
 
You must log in or register to reply here.