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China Displaces U.S. as Global Leader in Research

watsup said:
Thank you so much, Mr Trump, for turning the US into a second class nation as regards science.
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As has already been noted, this decline in research/graduate education has been underway for some time.

That said, the GOP has long discouraged belief in / acceptance of inconvenient facts. This anti-science, anti-American activity accelerated when trump came on the scene.
 
Pyrite said:
As has already been noted, this decline in research/graduate education has been underway for some time.

That said, the GOP has long discouraged belief in / acceptance of inconvenient facts. This anti-science, anti-American activity accelerated when trump came on the scene.
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Removing billions of dollars from university research is not going to help.
 
Callen said:
Trump is willingly walking away from America's dominance on the world stage and China is thrilled to step right in.
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The ****ed up part is, I think they actually think they're doing the opposite.
 
As long as we're building our global knowledge base does it really matter who funds it? For the longest time we complained that China stole our IP, now they're producing their own and we're still complaining.
 
dmpi said:
As long as we're building our global knowledge base does it really matter who funds it?
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Once upon a time Righties would have been very very upset that the US didn't lead the world in everything. NOW they make excuses.
 
noonereal said:
Scary that MAGA has no clue of the implications
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MAGA and Trump well understand the implications of China, their research, their goals, their successful education system, their military, etc. WELL understand it.
 
watsup said:
Thank you so much, Mr Trump, for turning the US into a second class nation as regards science.
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Sure, that's Trump's goal! That's a key reason why Musk is Trump's new best friend - because Trump really wants the U.S. to be a second class nation in science, education, and innovation.
 
Pyrite said:
As has already been noted, this decline in research/graduate education has been underway for some time.

That said, the GOP has long discouraged belief in / acceptance of inconvenient facts. This anti-science, anti-American activity accelerated when trump came on the scene.
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Well, you were on the right track with your first sentence. Then you got extremely confused.
 
I haven't seen a thread in years where I've found so much agreement with so many posters from the left. I think what those posters and what I see - as the causes of many of these points may differ tremendously - but it has been a most interesting thread in that I've found so much agreement with the points.
 
gbg3 said:
Sure, that's Trump's goal! That's a key reason why Musk is Trump's new best friend - because Trump really wants the U.S. to be a second class nation in science, education, and innovation.
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Cheap labor is often found in uneducated populations. 🤷‍♀️
 
SNOWFLAKE said:
Nine of the world’s top 10 research institutions are now Chinese.
March 24, 2025




More for the curious.
fpif.org

China Displaces U.S. as Global Leader in Research - FPIF

Nine of the world’s top 10 research institutions are now Chinese.
fpif.org fpif.org

For the not so curious, try a few whataboutisms
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In terms of quantity, yes, China leads the world now; however, there are questions about the quality of Chinese research - at least in 2025.

That being said, I do believe the Chinese are catching up to the West across a wide range of disciplines, and if anything, it is the West's desire to isolate China that will fuel their innovation. I mean all we need to do is to look at the recent developments with DeepSeek and AI. Despite our very best efforts to isolate China, they found workarounds.

Smart protectionism is one thing, but it's foolish as hell to believe that we can win a global competition by trying to rig the system so that we win the domestic market and a few others. It's even more foolish when we reckon with the fact that China will have nearly twice the number of PhD STEM grads this year as their next-closest competitor, the United States. And that number is accelerating. And, oh by the way, many US STEM grads come from...China. We import our labor and our cognitive power.

China mostly produces its own. Just on that basis alone, I think we'd be wise to be very, very careful with whom we pick fights.
 
gbg3 said:
Sure, that's Trump's goal! That's a key reason why Musk is Trump's new best friend - because Trump really wants the U.S. to be a second class nation in science, education, and innovation.
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Pretty much so.
 
gbg3 said:
MAGA and Trump well understand the implications of China, their research, their goals, their successful education system, their military, etc. WELL understand it.
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Lol

What else can i say to this moronic utterance?
 
noonereal said:
Lol

What else can i say to this moronic utterance?
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I think you kind of answered your own question with these five words - "What else can i say". ;)
 
multivita-man said:
In terms of quantity, yes, China leads the world now; however, there are questions about the quality of Chinese research - at least in 2025.

That being said, I do believe the Chinese are catching up to the West across a wide range of disciplines, and if anything, it is the West's desire to isolate China that will fuel their innovation. I mean all we need to do is to look at the recent developments with DeepSeek and AI. Despite our very best efforts to isolate China, they found workarounds.

Smart protectionism is one thing, but it's foolish as hell to believe that we can win a global competition by trying to rig the system so that we win the domestic market and a few others. It's even more foolish when we reckon with the fact that China will have nearly twice the number of PhD STEM grads this year as their next-closest competitor, the United States. And that number is accelerating. And, oh by the way, many US STEM grads come from...China. We import our labor and our cognitive power.

China mostly produces its own. Just on that basis alone, I think we'd be wise to be very, very careful with whom we pick fights.
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Data manipulation/fabrication/falsification is a huge issue RE: Chinese research, so indeed its quality remains an ongoing concern, even into 2025.

I will point out however, that the US produces roughly 2 STEM graduates per STEM job annualized, so for the time being, despite all the doomsaying, there is no imminent higher education crisis.

However, none of this is any cause for complacency as the CCP aggressively pursues its ultimate goal of replacing Pax Americana, and our current trajectory, while alterable, is currently moving in the wrong direction.

While strict isolationism is a poor idea, a continuation of smart, controlled decoupling and friendshoring and strict forbiddance of 'technology transfers' (i.e. the coerced/forced disclosure of trade secrets and technology to Chinese entities as a 'cost of doing business', whether directly or to a Chinese partner) and the sharing of strategic technologies (yes, they will find black market/subterfuge methods to compensate; however, this will make things more costly and slow them down), are good policies going forward that should have been enacted yesterday (moreover, to be clear, we have certainly not yet committed our 'best efforts' to isolate China).

Above and beyond that, it's also important to get our own house in order, and ensure that China doesn't wrest away Western hegemony before its demographic issues make that impossible... though I fear that such a correction will not happen so long as Trump is in power without Democratic majorities in the House and Senate to keep his idiocy in check.
 
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