China Building World's Largest Aircraft Carrier (1 Viewer)

[Bodi]

Or just those with a sun tan ?

Seems a strange worry...

 

[Rich2018]

Seems a strange worry...

Indeed it does.

 

[Fledermaus]

Indeed it does.

China Building World's Largest Aircraft Carrier​

 

[JMB1911A1]

The IJN Shinano was the largest aircraft carrier of WW2 until it wasn't (courtesy of the USN).

Japanese aircraft carrier Shinano - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Hamish Howl]

Is that thing going to sink at the wharf like their sub?

 

[Hamish Howl]

You generally do not find pirates operating near carriers, and carriers are not real good at dealing with them.

Aircraft are - very - good at dealing with them.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Aircraft are - very - good at dealing with them.

Gross overkill. They operate out of small 15-20 foot boats. Helicopters are more than enough to deal with them if needed, not F-18s or F-35s. Back to the artillery battery and B-52 carpet bombing to take out a rogue elephant.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

Gross overkill. They operate out of small 15-20 foot boats. Helicopters are more than enough to deal with them if needed, not F-18s or F-35s. Back to the artillery battery and B-52 carpet bombing to take out a rogue elephant.

I hate to break it to you, but helicopters are, in fact, aircraft.

 

[Port & Starboard]

So, China is going to build another large slow target?

 

[Tangmo]

China's disadvantage is that their geography makes them vulnerable to blockade from the sea.

But they're now overcoming that disadvantage. Here's how:

China's shipbuilding capacity is 232X greater than America's.

The Ryukyu island chain from Japan to Taiwan is not navigable to the open western Pacific so it seals in the PLA Navy over the continental shelf.

The PLAN has only the Miyako Strait just northeast of Taiwan as its navigable access route to the western Pacific. The USN and the Japan Maritime Self Defense Force with the Japan Air SDF and USAF control the Strait which is heavily mined, has sound equipment in the Strait and includes Japanese missiles on small islands on the north side in the Strait. Plus there's Taiwan right there at the Strait south side.

It's not worth it to the PLAN to try to fight its way through the Miyako Strait into the open western North Pacific. The PLAN are sitting ducks over the continental shelf.

The only other navigable access for the PLAN into the open western Pacific is the Bushi Channel between Taiwan and the Philippines which is also heavily defended by Japan, the USN and AF from Guam which is west of the Phils -- and by Taiwan that is right there. A couple of years ago the US gained access to the northernmost area of Luzon island to establish four new USA military facilities with missiles to add to the defenses of the Bushi Channel.

The more PLAN ships there are the bigger the party to sink 'em. Cause PLAN has nowhere it can go. The South China Sea is controlled at its west by the India Navy and Air Force who several years ago constructed new bases in the Andaman islands at the north of the Malacca Strait which is so narrow in places one can spit across it from shore to shore.

 

[sanman]

The Ryukyu island chain from Japan to Taiwan is not navigable to the open western Pacific so it seals in the PLA Navy over the continental shelf.

The PLAN has only the Miyako Strait just northeast of Taiwan as its navigable access route to the western Pacific. The USN and the Japan Maritime Self Defense Force with the Japan Air SDF and USAF control the Strait which is heavily mined, has sound equipment in the Strait and includes Japanese missiles on small islands on the north side in the Strait. Plus there's Taiwan right there at the Strait south side.

It's not worth it to the PLAN to try to fight its way through the Miyako Strait into the open western North Pacific. The PLAN are sitting ducks over the continental shelf.

The only other navigable access for the PLAN into the open western Pacific is the Bushi Channel between Taiwan and the Philippines which is also heavily defended by Japan, the USN and AF from Guam which is west of the Phils -- and by Taiwan that is right there. A couple of years ago the US gained access to the northernmost area of Luzon island to establish four new USA military facilities with missiles to add to the defenses of the Bushi Channel.

The more PLAN ships there are the bigger the party to sink 'em. Cause PLAN has nowhere it can go. The South China Sea is controlled at its west by the India Navy and Air Force who several years ago constructed new bases in the Andaman islands at the north of the Malacca Strait which is so narrow in places one can spit across it from shore to shore.

Just like with WW2 in the Pacific, all kinds of other islands can be involved. The Chinese are in the process of setting up various other bases around the Indo-Pacific region.
They already have that "String of Pearls" around India going down to Maldives and also Djibouti by the Red Sea, and they're likewise trying to gain footholds in Latin America, including not only Panama, but also Nicaragua, and even a new port at Peru. They are setting up the bases first, and afterwards can produce multitudes of ships to populate them later on when they're ready. They're not going to tip off their hand too early.

"Hide your strength, bide your time"
- CCP slogan, attributed to Deng Xiaoping

 

[Phys251]

I caught a couple of contradictions in the first few minutes of the OP video and stopped watching. It is a propaganda vide designed to fearmonger.

Consider the source.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

This will bring their fleet of aircraft carriers to a number of….4.

In comparison to the US fleet of 11…with 2 more on the way.

And it is much more than just the ship. It's the decades of experience, knowledge passed on from actual missions and exercises, it's the men and women who crew and command these floating cities.

You know what our submarine fleets do? They have spent decades learning how to destroy our AC carriers. We've taken that knowledge, developed countermeasures and tactics to foil their missions. And the games continue.

China, in contrast does not have either the experience or knowledge it has taken us decades to acquire. I pity the crew of any Chinese carrier who faces the wrath of the US Navy.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Just like with WW2 in the Pacific, all kinds of other islands can be involved. The Chinese are in the process of setting up various other bases around the Indo-Pacific region.
They already have that "String of Pearls" around India going down to Maldives and also Djibouti by the Red Sea, and they're likewise trying to gain footholds in Latin America, including not only Panama, but also Nicaragua, and even a new port at Peru. They are setting up the bases first, and afterwards can produce multitudes of ships to populate them later on when they're ready. They're not going to tip off their hand too early.

"Hide your strength, bide your time"
- CCP slogan, attributed to Deng Xiaoping

Are you old enough to remember when the Soviet Union tried to establish a military foothold (60s,70s) in the Americas via Cuba? That did not end well for the Soviets. They spent billions and the US countered and thwarted them at every turn.

I can guarantee you our intel people at NSA and elsewhere are on it. We track each and every Chinese ship around the world. We know what's on those ships, where they left China, and where they unload their cargos. They can build all the bases in SA they want. We will prevent those bases from becoming a threat, to either us or the countries in the region.

 

[sanman]

Are you old enough to remember when the Soviet Union tried to establish a military foothold (60s,70s) in the Americas via Cuba? That did not end well for the Soviets. They spent billions and the US countered and thwarted them at every turn.

I can guarantee you our intel people at NSA and elsewhere are on it. We track each and every Chinese ship around the world. We know what's on those ships, where they left China, and where they unload their cargos. They can build all the bases in SA they want. We will prevent those bases from becoming a threat, to either us or the countries in the region.

The Soviets were not a capitalist country with the amount of money China has. China has loads of cash, and is an 18-trillion dollar economy. Has the US stopped China from getting bases in parts of Asia and Africa? Has the US been able to rival the investments made by China for Belt-and-Road? China has bankrolled some really big-ticket projects across the developing world.

 

[Helix]

The biggest existential threat to our country, IMO, isn't a Chinese boat or even an asteroid. It has already been installed.

 

[Oozlefinch]

I hate to break it to you, but helicopters are, in fact, aircraft.

So are Blimps, but I don't see any nation using those off the Horn of Africa.

 

[Oozlefinch]

And it is much more than just the ship. It's the decades of experience, knowledge passed on from actual missions and exercises, it's the men and women who crew and command these floating cities.

You know what our submarine fleets do? They have spent decades learning how to destroy our AC carriers. We've taken that knowledge, developed countermeasures and tactics to foil their missions. And the games continue.

China, in contrast does not have either the experience or knowledge it has taken us decades to acquire. I pity the crew of any Chinese carrier who faces the wrath of the US Navy.

China is considered by a great many to be one of the weakest navies in the world. And that has nothing to do with the ships, and everything to do with their experience.

They almost never actually conduct "fleet operations", other than a couple of times a year, They will then assemble a fleet for a couple of one week exercises, all leaving port to take part in them, then returning to port when they are finished. Other than at those times, their ships are rarely at sea other than occasionally as individual ships.

As the saying goes, you "train as you fight". And if you never spend time with your ships operating as a fleet, how can anybody expect them to operate as a fleet in war? Most of their ships spend no more than 3 to 4 weeks at sea at a time, then return to port. And operate alone.

And by the same token, their UNREP is a complete and utter joke. This will go hand in hand with fleet operations, and is how you resupply a ship that is at sea. This is something the US got down pretty damned good during WWII, and has been improving ever since. This is why they commonly have ships at sea for sex months at a time without problem, and at times up to a year. But China completely lacks this ability.

So even if they get in a major combat with somebody, how are they going to be able to resupply? If at sea for an extended period of time on a defensive missions, how are they going to resupply? This is a major factor when it comes to running a "real navy", as opposed to an upgunned Coast Guard. And for all practical purposes, that is all China has. An upgunned coast guard. With ships that seem completely incapable of operating for more than a few weeks at a time, operating with other ships in a practiced manner, or being able to operate outside of their own waters without problems like maintenance and supply.

And these are capabilities that they are not even attempting to improve or change. I have been watching the PLAN for decades, and it is in reality little improved than it was three decades ago. They got some newer boats, but how it operates is unchanged from the 1970s.

 

[Rich2018]

The Soviets were not a capitalist country with the amount of money China has. China has loads of cash, and is an 18-trillion dollar economy. Has the US stopped China from getting bases in parts of Asia and Africa? Has the US been able to rival the investments made by China for Belt-and-Road? China has bankrolled some really big-ticket projects across the developing world.

The old USSR had bases in Asia and Africa.

 

[Fledermaus]

The old USSR had bases in Asia and Africa.

Yep.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Are you old enough to remember when the Soviet Union tried to establish a military foothold (60s,70s) in the Americas via Cuba? That did not end well for the Soviets. They spent billions and the US countered and thwarted them at every turn.

I knew a couple of sub drivers from the 1960s to the 1990s. And they all said pretty much the same thing.

Soviet subs were not bad, but limited in being about a generation behind the US and almost always operating the same way. That made them incredibly predictable, and they often did not even consider that they might have actually been detected as they would rarely do things unexpected.

And they all would say the same things about the Chinese subs. Rarely found outside of their home waters, and so noisy you would think you would not even need the SONAR gear to detect them. They were all based on first generation Soviet subs and power plants, and by the 1980s they were so loud and outdated it was almost a joke.

With the Soviets, it was a bit nuanced. But the US used their abilities in "SONAR pickets" to keep aware of the location of almost all Soviet subs. And they also mastered passive SONAR and tracking subs with aircraft. The biggest advantage of that is that the Soviets often had no idea they were even being tracked.

Cuba was both an attempt to pump money into the Cuban economy, as well as to give them a base to project power from. However, by that time the world was already changing. Nuclear subs no longer needed as many ports to operate out of, and longer range aircraft simply made it unnecessary to actually involve a fleet to match the movements of another fleet. And it was not just the US, the UK also often spent time shadowing those fleets so both countries gained a lot of experience in how Soviet fleets operate.

During most of the Cold War, the US subs would operate with impunity right to the edge of many Soviet naval bases. But the reverse can not be said, the Soviets gave most of the US bases a wide berth. Not that they were even needed, because US doctrine was generally to leave port in a submarine on the surface, and spend a significant amount of time on the surface before finally submerging. At which time it would pretty much vanish unless they happened upon it by luck.

 

[sanman]

The old USSR had bases in Asia and Africa.

The Soviet Union never had aircraft carriers as a key part of its strategy. Soviet naval doctrine relied more on submarines than carriers. But the Chinese have a massive ship-building capacity, and can churn out carriers in droves, once they decide to. The Soviets had a lot of forced allocated for land invasion of Europe, whereas the Chinese don't have to think like that, and can be more navalized. So the Chinese have a different style than the Soviets did, and so they're not using the same playbook.

 

[Tangmo]

This will bring their fleet of aircraft carriers to a number of….4.

In comparison to the US fleet of 11…with 2 more on the way.

The original goal of a dozen years ago was 7 PLAN aircraft carriers.

Several years ago however the CCP DictatorTyrants in Beijing decided to settle on 4 which is where it stays.

PLAN still can't coordinate and integrate one carrier battle group never mind 7 of 'em which besides are very expensive. US Indo-Pacific Command at Pearl Harbor listens in on PLA exercises which is how they know Chinese aircraft carriers and their escort battle groups remain years away from becoming a coordinated, integrated and effective fighting force.

Until circa 2000 the only "Navy" China had was its "Riverboat Navy" that policed the rivers of China. There's been a great and fast paced expansion since -- yet Beijing still cannot establish its dominance of the waters off its coast and in the South China Sea much less the western Pacific. PLAN seems very nervous about leaving the sight of shore.

So Beijing decided to go in BIG with a single and still unmanageable biggest aircraft carrier of the world whoopie. It's all about PR of course because it will take years to construct, test, correct and become operational. And to go nowhere given the risks of the carrier trying to sail the 7 seas away from home and its support, sustainment, replenishment and drydock repairs.

Going this aircraft carrier thingy alone is an ongoing huge problem for Beijing to include that no country with aircraft carriers is participating in developing the PLAN carriers and their battle groups to include no training assistance and no coordination of command expertise.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Has the US stopped China from getting bases in parts of Asia and Africa?

And what have they done with them?

Here is something the US does multiple times a year.

To give an idea, of the seven numbered "fleets" and 11 carriers, at this time five of them are at sea. And that means a group of anywhere from 7 to 10 ships are all at sea together for each of those carriers. All training and moving together as a fleet. And add in another half dozen or more support ships that will be going to and from those ships carrying everything from food and fuel to mail and items for the ship stores and delivering them as all of the ships are afloat.

And between the Carriers, our Amphibious Fleets, and the others this will mean at almost all times at least a dozen fleets of between 3 and 10 ships will be operating as such around the world at any given time. With most remaining at sea for at least 3 to 6 months.

It does not matter how many bases China has, because they still do not operate as a Navy. They go out almost entirely as single ships by themselves, and have to have those bases because they have no capability to support and maintain those ships while at sea.

The US regularly does missions to support our allies where we will send out a half dozen ships half way around the world, then conduct joint operations with other nations. Both in working together, and also with them trying to defend against an attack by the US. Or the US trying to defend somewhere as they conduct an attack. Exercises like this must happen a couple of dozen times a year, giving both the US and their allies good experience in using their ships as a fleet. Now when has China ever done that?

Simple answer, really never. They just finished one, one of the rare examples of this. And it is a joint exercise with China, Russia, and Iran. This is actually one of the silliest such exercises I have heard of to be honest. Seriously, what in the hell are Chinese ships going to be doing in the Persian Gulf?

China, Iran and Russia hold joint naval drills in Mideast as tensions rise between Tehran and US

China, Iran and Russia have conducted joint naval drills in the Middle East. The joint drills held Tuesday, called the Maritime Security Belt 2025, took place in the Gulf of Oman near the strategic Strait of Hormuz, the narrow mouth of the Persian Gulf through which a fifth of all crude oil traded w

apnews.com

Well, in this exercise they sent two ships. That's it, two ships. The Type 052D (stretched) destroyer Baotou 133, and the Type 903A replenishment ship Gaoyouhu 966. Yep, that's it. The ships sent to this "International exercise" numbered two, a single destroyer and a support ship to keep it operational.

Call me underwhelmed.

 

[Luce]

Gross overkill. They operate out of small 15-20 foot boats. Helicopters are more than enough to deal with them if needed, not F-18s or F-35s. Back to the artillery battery and B-52 carpet bombing to take out a rogue elephant.

If you're going to do it, why half ass it?

Gross overkill is a statement in itself.