China and South Korea seeing an increase in cases as they reopen.

[Luckyone]

China and South Korea are seeing an increase in Covid-19 cases as they reopen.

China, South Korea see sudden spike in Covid-19 cases as measures ease
1 DAY AGO

Meanwhile, Egypt reported its biggest daily increase on Saturday. Infections were rising in some US states as President Donald Trump pushed for businesses to reopen despite warnings by public health experts.

Over the hump? This is a double humped camel problem and if we don't watch out, we could have the first three or four humped camel ever seen.

But what the heck, who cares about living or dying as long as the economy continues forward, right?

 

[Slavister]

So far, the second hump is nothing like the first

 

[Luckyone]

So far, the second hump is nothing like the first


View attachment 67283932

I have no idea where you got that chart but the chart from Worldomoter.com is nowhere like yours.

Check it out.

United States Coronavirus: 2,162,484 Cases and 117,859 Deaths - Worldometer

 

[Slavister]

I have no idea where you got that chart but the chart from Worldomoter.com is nowhere like yours.

Check it out.

United States Coronavirus: 2,162,484 Cases and 117,859 Deaths - Worldometer

Look at the graph - it's the chart for South Korea. It's in big black letters, right in its title...

You said...

China and South Korea are seeing an increase in Covid-19 cases as they reopen.

Over the hump? This is a double humped camel problem ...

 

[Luckyone]

Look at the graph - it's the chart for South Korea. It's in big black letters on it...

You said...

Yeah, well did you click on the link I gave.

Here are two other links from today

China sees two-month high in confirmed cases of coronavirus - Vox

China Reports 57 New Coronavirus Cases Amid Beijing Outbreak - The New York Times

Evidently the parties involved (China and South Korea) are unhappy about it. They were not expecting it and given that these two countries have shown the best results in controlling the virus, this is worrisome as we have not controlled the virus anywhere near as well as those two countries.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

China and South Korea are seeing an increase in Covid-19 cases as they reopen.



Over the hump? This is a double humped camel problem and if we don't watch out, we could have the first three or four humped camel ever seen.

But what the heck, who cares about living or dying as long as the economy continues forward, right?

What do you suggest is the pathway moving forward? 6 more months of lockdown, 1 year, 5 years? How long is enough?

 

[Luckyone]

What do you suggest is the pathway moving forward? 6 more months of lockdown, 1 year, 5 years? How long is enough?

As I have stated repeatedly before. The CDC has clear guidelines on reopening the economy that include testing of everyone returning to work, what industries to reopen first and the requirements for businesses to reopen, as well as the numbers in that area being on the way down for at least 2 weeks. Most areas, governors, and the president are not following the guidelines, meaning unnecessary deaths will occur.

This is like the flu in some ways but multiplied by 5. There are going to continue to be infections and deaths (that cannot be prevented) but every effort and guideline given by the CDC should be followed to a tee.

That is my answer. These are not being done. These guidelines were followed closely and clearly in China and South Korea and in other locations and they are generally working even though some spikes have occurred nonetheless. Nonetheless, the spikes in those areas are something like from 10 to 57 rather than from 400 to 1500 as we have seen here.

The key world here is "unnecessary and preventable" deaths.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

As I have stated repeatedly before. The CDC has clear guidelines on reopening the economy that include testing of everyone returning to work, what industries to reopen first and the requirements for businesses to reopen, as well as the numbers in that area being on the way down for at least 2 weeks. Most areas, governors, and the president are not following the guidelines, meaning unnecessary deaths will occur.

This is like the flu in some ways but multiplied by 5. There are going to continue to be infections and deaths (that cannot be prevented) but every effort and guideline given by the CDC should be followed to a tee.

That is my answer. These are not being done. These guidelines were followed closely and clearly in China and South Korea and in other locations and they are generally working even though some spikes have occurred nonetheless. Nonetheless, the spikes in those areas are something like from 10 to 57 rather than from 400 to 1500 as we have seen here.

The key world here is "unnecessary and preventable" deaths.

"As I have stated repeatedly before." Sorry, I don't see your posts that often.

I just perused the CDC Coronavirus website and could find nothing about "what industries to reopen first" nor "the requirements for business to reopen". I see a lot of guidelines and considerations.

 

[Luckyone]

"As I have stated repeatedly before." Sorry, I don't see your posts that often.

I just perused the CDC Coronavirus website and could find nothing about "what industries to reopen first" nor "the requirements for business to reopen". I see a lot of guidelines and considerations.

stands to common sense that industries like sports arenas and other where people concentrate in large numbers would be the last to open. You will find that information in the guidelines though not industries themselves specifically mentioned. Certainly, the CDC has stated clearly that where more than 25 people would gather would not be an industry to open unless all precautions in preventing the spread of the virus are taken. How can you do that when a large number of people will be attending.

By the way, Trump is having a rally in about a week in an arena that fits 19,000 people and he is asking everyone that goes to sign a waiver where the arena nor the the Trump group are held responsible. This is a perfect example of a president that is not following the rules set by the CDC. It is irresponsible of him, given that a rally is not needed. If it was a vote, perhaps an excuse could be given, but a rally that is basically a celebration of his candidacy shows he does not follow any guidelines but his own.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

stands to common sense that industries like sports arenas and other where people concentrate in large numbers would be the last to open. You will find that information in the guidelines though not industries themselves specifically mentioned. Certainly, the CDC has stated clearly that where more than 25 people would gather would not be an industry to open unless all precautions in preventing the spread of the virus are taken. How can you do that when a large number of people will be attending.

By the way, Trump is having a rally in about a week in an arena that fits 19,000 people and he is asking everyone that goes to sign a waiver where the arena nor the the Trump group are held responsible. This is a perfect example of a president that is not following the rules set by the CDC. It is irresponsible of him, given that a rally is not needed. If it was a vote, perhaps an excuse could be given, but a rally that is basically a celebration of his candidacy shows he does not follow any guidelines but his own.

I didn't see rules, I saw guidelines and the CDC first starts off with whether something is permitted by state/local authorities. As long as the state/local government allow it, it does not violate CDC guidelines. Hopefully none of the 19,000 are forced to go, I would have an issue with that.

 

[George50]

China and South Korea are seeing an increase in Covid-19 cases as they reopen.



Over the hump? This is a double humped camel problem and if we don't watch out, we could have the first three or four humped camel ever seen.

But what the heck, who cares about living or dying as long as the economy continues forward, right?

China has 57 new cases in a day, South Korea has 34 new cases. Both governments freak out and take care of the problem by testing, quarantine and contact tracing. The US has 20,000+ new cases in a day and the Trump administration goes ho-hum.

Good health means a good economy. South Korea’s unemployment rate is 4.8% ours is 13.3%.


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[Luckyone]

I didn't see rules, I saw guidelines and the CDC first starts off with whether something is permitted by state/local authorities. As long as the state/local government allow it, it does not violate CDC guidelines. Hopefully none of the 19,000 are forced to go, I would have an issue with that.

Who has been talking about legality?

This is about preventing unnecessary deaths. Was it illegal to put a choke hold on George Floyd? No, it wasn't. Was it wrong to let him die? Absolutely.

My whole thing is about doing what is right for the country from a health point of view. The Governors and Trump can change the rules as they see fit to make it legal or not, but the bottom line is that there is a right way and a wrong way and in this case, that has nothing to do with legality or not.

 

[Luckyone]

China has 57 new cases in a day, South Korea has 34 new cases. Both governments freak out and take care of the problem by testing, quarantine and contact tracing. The US has 20,000+ new cases in a day and the Trump administration goes ho-hum.

Good health means a good economy. South Korea’s unemployment rate is 4.8% ours is 13.3%.


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I am with you all the way.

 

[George50]

I didn't see rules, I saw guidelines and the CDC first starts off with whether something is permitted by state/local authorities. As long as the state/local government allow it, it does not violate CDC guidelines. Hopefully none of the 19,000 are forced to go, I would have an issue with that.

Rules/guidelines you are just talking semantics. The CDC is detailing what needs to be done to be successful. Instead of putting the full weight of his office behind the CDC’s advice, Trump is working against the CDC with his own guidelines being LIBERATE, LIBERATE and ridiculing states that follow CDC advice.

Don’t worry no one is being forced to go to Trump’s rally, according to the campaign, one million morons have signed up.


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[The AntiDonald]

I didn't see rules, I saw guidelines and the CDC first starts off with whether something is permitted by state/local authorities. As long as the state/local government allow it, it does not violate CDC guidelines. Hopefully none of the 19,000 are forced to go, I would have an issue with that.

Trump is the reason there is no national federal plan. He has stymied the CDC and the NIH. If Trump had come out strongly on a national plan, his Covidiot supporters would have believed him and complied. But instead he down played it and acted like it's no bid deal.

Now we have nationwide chaos with D states attempting to do the right thing and R states pretending there is no virus. I am going to blame the extended risk to Covid entirely on Trump and the Covidiots that follow him.

Along with that blame goes the blame for unnecessarily high death tolls.

 

[George50]

Trump is the reason there is no national federal plan. He has stymied the CDC and the NIH. If Trump had come out strongly on a national plan, his Covidiot supporters would have believed him and complied. But instead he down played it and acted like it's no bid deal.

Now we have nationwide chaos with D states attempting to do the right thing and R states pretending there is no virus. I am going to blame the extended risk to Covid entirely on Trump and the Covidiots that follow him.

Along with that blame goes the blame for unnecessarily high death tolls.

AMEN. I’ll add the blame for tanking the economy. South Korea who followed the science unemployment rate = 4.8%, US rate = 13.3%.


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[AliHajiSheik]

Who has been talking about legality?

This is about preventing unnecessary deaths. Was it illegal to put a choke hold on George Floyd? No, it wasn't. Was it wrong to let him die? Absolutely.

My whole thing is about doing what is right for the country from a health point of view. The Governors and Trump can change the rules as they see fit to make it legal or not, but the bottom line is that there is a right way and a wrong way and in this case, that has nothing to do with legality or not.

One could make an argument that every death is unnecessary and since you don't want to have any local leeway for what are published guidelines from the CDC, then perhaps you should cut down on fried foods, meats and sugar--its the right thing to do.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

Rules/guidelines you are just talking semantics. The CDC is detailing what needs to be done to be successful. Instead of putting the full weight of his office behind the CDC’s advice, Trump is working against the CDC with his own guidelines being LIBERATE, LIBERATE and ridiculing states that follow CDC advice.

Don’t worry no one is being forced to go to Trump’s rally, according to the campaign, one million morons have signed up.


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Hard to debate with someone who doesn't understand the difference between a guidelines and a rule. If you want a single person, the President (full weight), to force the entire country to conform, then I'll pass. I live in a state of 67 counties, 46 in the green phase, 21 in the yellow phase, and none in the red phase. It is also a state where move people over 85 have died than under 85 and that 84% of the people who have died are people who were in nursing homes. Tell me more about how one rule/guideline can apply equally for the entire country.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

Trump is the reason there is no national federal plan. He has stymied the CDC and the NIH. If Trump had come out strongly on a national plan, his Covidiot supporters would have believed him and complied. But instead he down played it and acted like it's no bid deal.

Now we have nationwide chaos with D states attempting to do the right thing and R states pretending there is no virus. I am going to blame the extended risk to Covid entirely on Trump and the Covidiots that follow him.

Along with that blame goes the blame for unnecessarily high death tolls.

Got it, Trump lost your vote over this. Go to the polls proudly.

 

[Luckyone]

One could make an argument that every death is unnecessary and since you don't want to have any local leeway for what are published guidelines from the CDC, then perhaps you should cut down on fried foods, meats and sugar--its the right thing to do.

Absolutely it is, but then again I am the one that will make that choice. Then again and like with cigarettes, they are not illegal but every pack of cigarettes that can be bought says they can cause cancer. In that respect, the government has done their job. In this case though, it is even worse as you going out of your house is not only a risk to yourself but also to others around you and that makes the people in charge even more responsible for health of the city/state/country.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

Absolutely it is, but then again I am the one that will make that choice. Then again and like with cigarettes, they are not illegal but every pack of cigarettes that can be bought says they can cause cancer. In that respect, the government has done their job. In this case though, it is even worse as you going out of your house is not only a risk to yourself but also to others around you and that makes the people in charge even more responsible for health of the city/state/country.

If someone is a danger to society then perhaps they should be removed from society. That is having the "people in charge" be responsible, taken to the logical conclusion.

 

[Metric Mouse]

Trump is the reason there is no national federal plan. He has stymied the CDC and the NIH. If Trump had come out strongly on a national plan, his Covidiot supporters would have believed him and complied. But instead he down played it and acted like it's no bid deal.

Now we have nationwide chaos with D states attempting to do the right thing and R states pretending there is no virus. I am going to blame the extended risk to Covid entirely on Trump and the Covidiots that follow him.

Along with that blame goes the blame for unnecessarily high death tolls.

Please; the worst hit areas are still "D" states, as you put it. Covidiots in New York and now California are killing the most people. Top 8 states for covid deaths are all "d" states. Few places in the United States are doing well, but the worst ones are still "D" states, as if that matters.

 

[George50]

Hard to debate with someone who doesn't understand the difference between a guidelines and a rule. If you want a single person, the President (full weight), to force the entire country to conform, then I'll pass. I live in a state of 67 counties, 46 in the green phase, 21 in the yellow phase, and none in the red phase. It is also a state where move people over 85 have died than under 85 and that 84% of the people who have died are people who were in nursing homes. Tell me more about how one rule/guideline can apply equally for the entire country.

It’s not that hard to apply guidelines for the whole country. For example, wear a mask if you can’t social distance. Make sure cases are decreasing by a certain percentage before you reopen. Make sure your new daily cases are low enough that you have the capability to test, quarantine and contact trace to stamp out any new outbreaks that might occur before you reopen.

This past week when countries like China had 57 new cases in a day and South Korea with 34 they freak out and start aggressive testing, contact tracing and quarantine to stamp out the new outbreaks. Meanwhile here in the US when we have 20 THOUSAND new cases in a day the Trump administration goes ho-hum.


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[AliHajiSheik]

It’s not that hard to apply guidelines for the whole country. For example, wear a mask if you can’t social distance. Make sure cases are decreasing by a certain percentage before you reopen. Make sure your new daily cases are low enough that you have the capability to test, quarantine and contact trace to stamp out any new outbreaks that might occur before you reopen.

This past week when countries like China had 57 new cases in a day and South Korea with 34 they freak out and start aggressive testing, contact tracing and quarantine to stamp out the new outbreaks. Meanwhile here in the US when we have 20 THOUSAND new cases in a day the Trump administration goes ho-hum.


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Who is doing the applying of your guideline for the whole country? Are you familiar with Federalism, or do you just don't care?

 

[George50]

Who is doing the applying of your guideline for the whole country? Are you familiar with Federalism, or do you just don't care?

Don’t give me that “the President is powerless because of federalism” nonsense. In a national emergency we expect the president to LEAD!

The Federal Government has by far the most expertise in virus control and has developed plans to guide the country through the crisis.

A leader would be publicly pushing the states and the American people (because we all are part of the problem or the solution) every single day to follow the guidelines developed by his team. Instead Trump is actively working against the guidelines! He’s an anti masker, he ridicules those who wear masks and calls mask wearers politically correct. He ridicules states that are trying to follow the reopening guidelines. His plan for reopening is LIBERATE, LIBERATE!

The president has what has been called the power of the bully pulpit. Trump has certainly used it but in a manner that has been mostly counterproductive. If the president pushes states to do what is good for themselves and the country as a whole most would fall in line. Certainly in today’s political climate for those in hard core republican states if Trump says jump they would say...how high?

The president has the power to direct American companies to support the government with supplies in its response to the crisis. He was warned back in January that the CDC would not be able to keep up with the need for testing and that we needed a public private joint effort. Testing was necessary so that we could quarantine the infected and do contact tracing in order to reduce the number of cases. By the time we had only done 500 tests South Korea had already done 100,000. After weeks of states begging for more testing capabilities Trump finally reacted in March. Unfortunately for us by that time it was too late to control the virus.

I could go on but I think people get the message.




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