Child Support Payback

[year2late]

You are not only supporting a horrible decision ......you PERSONALLY are subsidizing it

I am not agreeing with or disagreeing with an individual's personal health care choice. Just because it may or may not be what I choose is none of my business.

If she does decide to have the baby and is poorly resourced - perhaps TWO parents financially supporting the child will make me subsidize it less.

 

[year2late]

According to you she can not claim a moral problem with getting an abortion because she knew the risks going in

That seems to be more like what you might say.....

 

[vegas giants]

That seems to be more like what you might say.....

Lursa said it

 

[vegas giants]

I am not agreeing with or disagreeing with an individual's personal health care choice. Just because it may or may not be what I choose is none of my business.

If she does decide to have the baby and is poorly resourced - perhaps TWO parents financially supporting the child will make me subsidize it less.

I am disagreeing with bring a child into this world you can not afford. It is a horrible decision you support and subsidize

 

[year2late]

They do. What makes you think the woman is 'abdicating her moral beliefs' when she makes her choice re: pregnancy?

Are you a mind reader?



:2party:

According to you she can not claim a moral problem with getting an abortion because she knew the risks going in

Lursa said it

Is that what Lursa's quoted statement means to you?

I read it as meaning a woman makes the choice that is correct for her.

Some women feel having an abortion is immoral (or moral)

Some women feeling that having a child is immoral.(or moral)

You only see what suits you. And consistently you have inaccurately read into what others have said to suit your beliefs.

 

[vegas giants]

Is that what Lursa's quoted statement means to you?

I read it as meaning a woman makes the choice that is correct for her.

Some women feel having an abortion is immoral (or moral)

Some women feeling that having a child is immoral.(or moral)

You only see what suits you. And consistently you have inaccurately read into what others have said to suit your beliefs.

Yeah I think a man should make the choice that is correct for him. That is civil rights. That is pro choice

 

[Removable Mind]

Thank you for your opinion. If you are unhappy on this thread you can stop anytime. We will be happy to continue without you.

Have a wonderful day

Thanks for your misguided opinions. I’m not going anywhere. As I have said previously, I’ll continue to point out your inconsistencies with the laws and fundamental rights as THEY ACTUALLY EXIST TODAY. Why is that important part of this topic?

Men have to become way more proactive in preventing unwanted pregnancies until their constitutional and statutory rights change in a manner that may give men some level of reproductive rights that they don’t possess today.

In other words, “recognize and react to the realities of today (go to any length to prevent an unwanted pregnancy) and simultaneously work relentlessly to move your causes forward in whatever judicial or legislative arenas that might produce a sought after results”.

So far, all pro-opt out arguments are like some type of Civil War reenactment. Any person with an inkling of intelligence knows what happened to give rise to the argument, “women can legally abort prior to viability - so men should have the right to opt out of financial responsibilities and choose not to be a parent prior to viability”.

Do you know who will fight to hardest to prevent men from opting out? Every pro-life organization and religious organizations who are against women having the right and legal option to abort. They’ll cry, “But giving men such a right will be a form of coercion and/manipulation that encourages women to get an abortion.

Knowing about current reproductive rights in general, and that the majority of even pro-choice women won’t have an abortion, then men must take the necessary steps to avoid being a victim of their own making.

 

[vegas giants]

Thanks for your misguided opinions. I’m not going anywhere. As I have said previously, I’ll continue to point out your inconsistencies with the laws and fundamental rights as THEY ACTUALLY EXIST TODAY. Why is that important part of this topic?

Men have to become way more proactive in preventing unwanted pregnancies until their constitutional and statutory rights change in a manner that may give men some level of reproductive rights that they don’t possess today.

In other words, “recognize and react to the realities of today (go to any length to prevent an unwanted pregnancy) and simultaneously work relentlessly to move your causes forward in whatever judicial or legislative arenas that might produce a sought after results”.

So far, all pro-opt out arguments are like some type of Civil War reenactment. Any person with an inkling of intelligence knows what happened to give rise to the argument, “women can legally abort prior to viability - so men should have the right to opt out of financial responsibilities and choose not to be a parent prior to viability”.

Do you know who will fight to hardest to prevent men from opting out? Every pro-life organization and religious organizations who are against women having the right and legal option to abort. They’ll cry, “But giving men such a right will be a form of coercion and/manipulation that encourages women to get an abortion.

Knowing about current reproductive rights in general, and that the majority of even pro-choice women won’t have an abortion, then men must take the necessary steps to avoid being a victim of their own making.

Recognize and react to the realities of today? That is like telling a black person to get in the back of the bus because you can not win this fight and will just go to jail. The "get used to it" philosophy is absolutely horrible. My god.

No.

We fight for civil rights. We fight for pro choice.

 

[year2late]

I am disagreeing with bring a child into this world you can not afford. It is a horrible decision you support and subsidize

And for some women they believe having an abortion is immoral and they believe that is horrible for them. They can successfully raise a happy healthy child with limited resources. She may need help from the government who may rightfully as for financial disclosures from both parents.

Is it horrible of me to want both parent's incomes be considered before social services doles out my tax dollars? Hell friggen no.

My preference would be for both parties to use birth control if they are not ready to be parents or support their children. But I have no control over that. So we are left with the reality.

 

[vegas giants]

And for some women they believe having an abortion is immoral and they believe that is horrible for them. They can successfully raise a happy healthy child with limited resources. She may need help from the government who may rightfully as for financial disclosures from both parents.

Is it horrible of me to want both parent's incomes be considered before social services doles out my tax dollars? Hell friggen no.

My preference would be for both parties to use birth control if they are not ready to be parents or support their children. But I have no control over that. So we are left with the reality.

They should have thought of that before they got pregnant. Why is it ok to say that about men but not about women? Can women think?

 

[year2late]

Recognize and react to the realities of today? That is like telling a black person to get in the back of the bus because you can not win this fight and will just go to jail. The "get used to it" philosophy is absolutely horrible. My god.

No.

We fight for civil rights. We fight for pro choice.

Well, in the real world, if you have consensual sex, you need to be responsible for the consequences.

How about fighting for the rights of the taxpayers not to support children that can be supported by both parents.

Trying to push women who are morally opposed to abortion hardly seems like a positive civil rights move.

 

[year2late]

They should have thought of that before they got pregnant. Why is it ok to say that about men but not about women? Can women think?

Both of them should think about it.

But both know the consequences.

How many times to I have to say the same thing.

 

[vegas giants]

Well, in the real world, if you have consensual sex, you need to be responsible for the consequences.

How about fighting for the rights of the taxpayers not to support children that can be supported by both parents.

Trying to push women who are morally opposed to abortion hardly seems like a positive civil rights move.

Yes you do need to be responsible. Don't bring a child into this world you can not afford. That is NOT a responsible decision

 

[vegas giants]

Both of them should think about it.

But both know the consequences.

How many times to I have to say the same thing.

Both can think about it but she gets an extra opt out. So should he

 

[Removable Mind]

Recognize and react to the realities of today? That is like telling a black person to get in the back of the bus because you can not win this fight and will just go to jail. The "get used to it" philosophy is absolutely horrible. My god.

No.

We fight for civil rights. We fight for pro choice.

That is a extremely myopic position. Your “Black in the back of the bus” example is a very poor example. Blacks did EXACTLY as I suggested that men must do.

In other words, “recognize and react to the realities of today (go to any length to prevent an unwanted pregnancy) and simultaneously work relentlessly to move your causes forward in whatever judicial or legislative arenas that might produce a sought after results”.

The vast majority protected their physical selves by riding in the back of the bus while simultaneously protesting in the streets and in Washington. Do you know how many blacks were entrapped inside of buses and mob mauled - without provocation? Without trying to make a civil rights statement by moving to the front of buses?

There were near deadly consequences by walking inside a WHITE restaurant and demanding to be served AFTER the enactment of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

So meanwhile, YOU ADVOCATE that men should disregard THE LEGAL CONSEQUENCES of impregnating women and knock up women knowing that the women that they impregnate won’t have an abortion. That’s really smart of you.

Yeah, that’ll learn’em durn’em.

 

[year2late]

Both can think about it but she gets an extra opt out. So should he

It is not an "extra"

It is a choice not to be pregnant. He can chose to have his own abortion if he every gets pregnant.

 

[year2late]

Yes you do need to be responsible. Don't bring a child into this world you can not afford. That is NOT a responsible decision

And responsibility starts prior to conception.

We are all irresponsible in a variety of ways.

 

[OlNate]

Both of them should think about it.

But both know the consequences.

How many times to I have to say the same thing.

Endless. I stopped, due to boredom. This idea is never going to catch on, and Vegas will never stop advocating for policies that allow men to shirk their responsibilities, and despite being presented with a parade of reasons why this idea, and any other idea that attempts to extort women into giving up their right to bodily autonomy, or else face financial hardship for the child, will never fly, not to mentions offers to discuss solutions that are reasonable and fair, he will not be swayed.

Thankfully it doesn't matter, and there is zero risk of this, or any other similarly dysfunctional "solution", being implemented by decent people.

So...continue to bang your head against the wall if you find it fun...lol...but there's nothing at risk here, it's completely inconsequential.

 

[Removable Mind]

Endless. I stopped, due to boredom. This idea is never going to catch on, and Vegas will never stop advocating for policies that allow men to shirk their responsibilities, and despite being presented with a parade of reasons why this idea, and any other idea that attempts to extort women into giving up their right to bodily autonomy, or else face financial hardship for the child, will never fly, not to mentions offers to discuss solutions that are reasonable and fair, he will not be swayed.

Thankfully it doesn't matter, and there is zero risk of this, or any other similarly dysfunctional "solution", being implemented by decent people.

So...continue to bang your head against the wall if you find it fun...lol...but there's nothing at risk here, it's completely inconsequential.

:applaud

 

[vegas giants]

Endless. I stopped, due to boredom. This idea is never going to catch on, and Vegas will never stop advocating for policies that allow men to shirk their responsibilities, and despite being presented with a parade of reasons why this idea, and any other idea that attempts to extort women into giving up their right to bodily autonomy, or else face financial hardship for the child, will never fly, not to mentions offers to discuss solutions that are reasonable and fair, he will not be swayed.

Thankfully it doesn't matter, and there is zero risk of this, or any other similarly dysfunctional "solution", being implemented by decent people.

So...continue to bang your head against the wall if you find it fun...lol...but there's nothing at risk here, it's completely inconsequential.

No you didn't stop. You had no argument left. Big difference

 

[vegas giants]

And responsibility starts prior to conception.

We are all irresponsible in a variety of ways.

Lets not subsidize horrible decisions made by pregnant women. Kids deserve better

 

[vegas giants]

It is not an "extra"

It is a choice not to be pregnant. He can chose to have his own abortion if he every gets pregnant.

It is extra. It is in addition to.

 

[Lursa]

Recognize and react to the realities of today? That is like telling a black person to get in the back of the bus because you can not win this fight and will just go to jail. The "get used to it" philosophy is absolutely horrible. My god.

No.

We fight for civil rights. We fight for pro choice.

No American justice body will go for it...it's the direct opposite of legally requiring child support.

There's been quite a bit of avoidance when I ask why they created child support laws. heh...sort of inconvenient to the whole 'opt-out' silliness argument.

Why do we have child support laws?

And a man doesnt have to get used to anything...he can choose not to intentionally risk his (mythical) civil right to not being a parent against his will. If he chooses to abdicate that mythical civil right, it's not up to the govt to allow him a 'do-over.' Now there is a cost to a kid, society, and the taxpayers.

Dont want to pay? Dont abdicate your mythical civil right to have sex when you know you cant control the outcome of a pregnancy.

 

[Removable Mind]

And for some women they believe having an abortion is immoral and they believe that is horrible for them. They can successfully raise a happy healthy child with limited resources. She may need help from the government who may rightfully as for financial disclosures from both parents.

Is it horrible of me to want both parent's incomes be considered before social services doles out my tax dollars? Hell friggen no.

My preference would be for both parties to use birth control if they are not ready to be parents or support their children. But I have no control over that. So we are left with the reality.

:applaud

 

[vegas giants]

That is a extremely myopic position. Your “Black in the back of the bus” example is a very poor example. Blacks did EXACTLY as I suggested that men must do.





The vast majority protected their physical selves by riding in the back of the bus while simultaneously protesting in the streets and in Washington. Do you know how many blacks were entrapped inside of buses and mob mauled - without provocation? Without trying to make a civil rights statement by moving to the front of buses?

There were near deadly consequences by walking inside a WHITE restaurant and demanding to be served AFTER the enactment of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

So meanwhile, YOU ADVOCATE that men should disregard THE LEGAL CONSEQUENCES of impregnating women and knock up women knowing that the women that they impregnate won’t have an abortion. That’s really smart of you.

Yeah, that’ll learn’em durn’em.

I seem to remember many blacks sitting at white lunch counters. They stood up and demanded their rights even at the risk of death. They were heroes and did NOT do as you suggested. They fought for their civil rights.

So will we