"Cheney wants Americans to blame Obama for a mess Cheney created."

[Jack Hays]

Re: "Cheney wants Americans to blame Obama for a mess Cheney created."

Why didin't Bush get U.N. approval for the invasion like he promised Congress? As far as lies you are right there is no proof of deliberate lies. But the alternative to the Administration lying is that they were all ignorant boobs that could not understand the difference between reliable and unreliable sources even when told point blank that "curveball" was not a reliable informant. Having ignorant boobs invading countries is not an ideal situation is it?

There was never a definitive statement from the Germans that Curveball should not have been believed. Nor did the Germans allow the Americans direct access to assess him themselves. Like everyone else, the GWB administration preferred to believe what they preferred to believe.

 

[Conservative]

Re: "Cheney wants Americans to blame Obama for a mess Cheney created."

There was never a definitive statement from the Germans that Curveball should not have been believed. Nor did the Germans allow the Americans direct access to assess him themselves. Like everyone else, the GWB administration preferred to believe what they preferred to believe.

Some people will always believe what they want to believe and not information contrary to that belief. Bush did what he thought was right and got Congressional approval which is what a President should do. Those that claim he manipulated the intelligence are nothing more than leftwing zealots getting their information from sites like Mother Jones or other leftwing sites. Doesn't matter that the Congress had the same access and came to the same conclusion. Doesn't matter than Foreign intelligence claimed the same thing. Doesn't matter that a Joint Committee investigated the decision and didn't find Bush at fault because the leftwing isn't going to allow anything to change their narrative and will do whatever they can to divert from the disaster known as Obama

 

[TheDemSocialist]

I am waiting for you to tell me the Chaney lie?

I literally already did. But apparently you cant comprehend that just because a nuclear weapons program ending in 2003, does not mean their centrifuge production ended.....

 

[Conservative]

I literally already did. But apparently you cant comprehend that just because a nuclear weapons program ending in 2003, does not mean their centrifuge production ended.....

Did you read the article? Never said it ended but rather further development was halted so again tell me what was the Cheney lie? Obama has indeed created a bigger problem. Do you understand leadership at all or do you simply want to place blame on anything or anyone you disagree with?

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Did you read the article? Never said it ended but rather further development was halted so again tell me what was the Cheney lie? Obama has indeed created a bigger problem. Do you understand leadership at all or do you simply want to place blame on anything or anyone you disagree with?

Oh my god. Even if its worded: "In 2003 further development was halted" for their Nuclear Weapons Program"... This does not mean their centrifuge production ended or was "halted".

 

[Conservative]

Oh my god. Even if its worded: "In 2003 further development was halted" for their Nuclear Weapons Program"... This does not mean their centrifuge production ended or was "halted".

Isn't that exactly what I said, it was halted not ended? I don't see a Cheney lie unless of course you wanted the U.S. to invade Iran to stop their production of centrifuges

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Isn't that exactly what I said, it was halted not ended? I don't see a Cheney lie unless of course you wanted the U.S. to invade Iran to stop their production of centrifuges

:doh They did not halt their centrifuge program......

 

[Vern]

Re: "Cheney wants Americans to blame Obama for a mess Cheney created."

There was never a definitive statement from the Germans that Curveball should not have been believed. Nor did the Germans allow the Americans direct access to assess him themselves. Like everyone else, the GWB administration preferred to believe what they preferred to believe.

er uh Jack, I posted Tyler Drumheller telling you he informed Tenet that he promised the Germans curveball would not be used. You hilariously told me George and Tyler were your friends. Thanks to you pretending you didn't know about it, we don't really have to believe your claims that George and Tyler are your friends

There is no "European Bureau" in the CIA. CIA does not use the term "Bureau" in its terminology. Tyler is a friend of mine, and I know what he said. George is also a friend, and he says there was no such conversation. I don't take sides on that. Regardless, neither Powell nor GWB knew this before the UN presentation.

Jack, what do you think pretending not to know the truth proves?

 

[Conservative]

:doh They did not halt their centrifuge program......

That certainly seems to be the case so either Cheney lied or made a mistake. You choose to call it a lie whereas I am not sure what the U.S. could do about it and what that has to do with the Nuclear Treaty and the withdrawal of U.S. troops allowing Iran to get a bigger foothold in Iraq. Seems a lot of focus on the so called Cheney lie and not the mess that is there now regardless of who created it. Leadership is about taking a lemon and turning it into lemonade whereas Obama took a lemon and created another lemon.

 

[Vern]

Re: "Cheney wants Americans to blame Obama for a mess Cheney created."

oh and jack, you posted this in response to me telling you that Colin Powell told us he was sent to the UN with knowingly false intel

At the time Powell went to the UN no one knew the intel was not accurate.

just to be clear, you posted that in response to this post

Powell Calls His U.N. Speech a Lasting Blot on His Record

Asked further how he felt upon learning that he had been misled about the accuracy of intelligence on which he relied, Mr. Powell said, "Terrible." He added that it was "devastating" to learn later that some intelligence agents knew the information he had was unreliable but did not speak up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/09/politics/09powell.html?_r=2

yep, that's Colin Powell telling you he was given knowingly false intel and you posted "nuh uh". I know jack, tell us Colin is a friend of yours so you magically ignore the facts again.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: "Cheney wants Americans to blame Obama for a mess Cheney created."

er uh Jack, I posted Tyler Drumheller telling you he informed Tenet that he promised the Germans curveball would not be used. You hilariously told me George and Tyler were your friends. Thanks to you pretending you didn't know about it, we don't really have to believe your claims that George and Tyler are your friends



Jack, what do you think pretending not to know the truth proves?

The accounts of George and the late Tyler differ in important aspects. As a friend of both, I never pressed either on this topic. It was and has remained George's contention (and that of his deputy John) that criticism of Curveball never reached them. Tyler always maintained otherwise. I let it rest right there.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: "Cheney wants Americans to blame Obama for a mess Cheney created."

oh and jack, you posted this in response to me telling you that Colin Powell told us he was sent to the UN with knowingly false intel



just to be clear, you posted that in response to this post



yep, that's Colin Powell telling you he was given knowingly false intel and you posted "nuh uh". I know jack, tell us Colin is a friend of yours so you magically ignore the facts again.

When George Tenet told Powell he believed the intelligence George was telling the truth. For the rest, I'll leave that to Powell.

 

[Vern]

Re: "Cheney wants Americans to blame Obama for a mess Cheney created."

The accounts of George and the late Tyler differ in important aspects. As a friend of both, I never pressed either on this topic. It was and has remained George's contention (and that of his deputy John) that criticism of Curveball never reached them. Tyler always maintained otherwise. I let it rest right there.

but jack, you claim the germans never told us curveball was not to be believed. You pretending George and Tyler are your friends doesn't address the fact that the Germans said they said it. So the Germans and Tyler said they told us. See how that trumps (no pun intended) your "determination" to ignore the facts.

Now, The Guardian reports, Germany's former foreign minister Joschka Fischer is saying that the BND, Germany's intelligence agency, "realised some time before the war that Curveball was not a watertight source, and passed on his testimony to the CIA with warnings attached."
German Foreign Minister: CIA Knew 'Curveball's' WMD Intel Was Questionable : The Two-Way : NPR

sorry jack, its just a documented fact. no delusions from you change the facts. Oh and don't forget, Colin Powell confirmed that they knew the intel was false. But look, you still ignore the facts

When George Tenet told Powell he believed the intelligence George was telling the truth. For the rest, I'll leave that to Powell.

no sorry jack, reality trumps (no pun intended) your delusions every time.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: "Cheney wants Americans to blame Obama for a mess Cheney created."

but jack, you claim the germans never told us curveball was not to be believed. You pretending George and Tyler are your friends doesn't address the fact that the Germans said they said it. So the Germans and Tyler said they told us. See how that trumps (no pun intended) your "determination" to ignore the facts.

Now, The Guardian reports, Germany's former foreign minister Joschka Fischer is saying that the BND, Germany's intelligence agency, "realised some time before the war that Curveball was not a watertight source, and passed on his testimony to the CIA with warnings attached."
German Foreign Minister: CIA Knew 'Curveball's' WMD Intel Was Questionable : The Two-Way : NPR

sorry jack, its just a documented fact. no delusions from you change the facts. Oh and don't forget, Colin Powell confirmed that they knew the intel was false. But look, you still ignore the facts



no sorry jack, reality trumps (no pun intended) your delusions every time.

Everyones' memoirs are written to make themselves look good, including Fischer's. Had the Germans allowed direct access to Curveball this discussion might not have been possible.

 

[Vern]

Re: "Cheney wants Americans to blame Obama for a mess Cheney created."

Everyones' memoirs are written to make themselves look good, including Fischer's. Had the Germans allowed direct access to Curveball this discussion might not have been possible.

jack, "wah wah not my friend" isn't really proof that tenet isn't a lying POS. and don't forget he lied to the 9-11 commission so its not like he has a reputation to be believed. And jack, its not Fischer telling you. its the German intelligence. see how your brain desperately tries to marginalize any inconvenient fact. Hey I know accuse me posting something I didn't. you seem to like that. anyhoo, the german intelligence, Drumheller and Powell confirmed we knew curveball was a liar. Tenet, a documented liar, says otherwise. sorry I had to be the one to tell you your friend helped kill 4000 Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: "Cheney wants Americans to blame Obama for a mess Cheney created."

jack, "wah wah not my friend" isn't really proof that tenet isn't a lying POS. and don't forget he lied to the 9-11 commission so its not like he has a reputation to be believed. And jack, its not Fischer telling you. its the German intelligence. see how your brain desperately tries to marginalize any inconvenient fact. Hey I know accuse me posting something I didn't. you seem to like that. anyhoo, the german intelligence, Drumheller and Powell confirmed we knew curveball was a liar. Tenet, a documented liar, says otherwise. sorry I had to be the one to tell you your friend helped kill 4000 Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

Sorry, but it is Fischer claiming what the BND believed. Powell and Fischer both have reputations to protect, as does Tenet. Drumheller is dead and cannot any longer speak for himself.

 

[Vern]

Re: "Cheney wants Americans to blame Obama for a mess Cheney created."

Sorry, but it is Fischer claiming what the BND believed. Powell and Fischer both have reputations to protect, as does Tenet. Drumheller is dead and cannot any longer speak for himself.

Jack, tenet lied to the 9-11 commission. You've posted nothing to dispute the BND, Powell and Drumheller. "wah wah George is my friend" doesn't magically change the facts. and neither does "wah wah everybody is a liar not my friend George" who again is a documented liar.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: "Cheney wants Americans to blame Obama for a mess Cheney created."

Jack, tenet lied to the 9-11 commission. You've posted nothing to dispute the BND, Powell and Drumheller. "wah wah George is my friend" doesn't magically change the facts. and neither does "wah wah everybody is a liar not my friend George" who again is a documented liar.

You can assert all you like but you have no evidence. Again, only Fischer is on record about the BND; BND itself is not. Drumheller has passed on, and Powell was defending himself. Meanwhile, George's deputy backs George's story.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

That certainly seems to be the case so either Cheney lied or made a mistake.

Holy ****...
:doh

The Iran Nuclear Deal, by the Numbers - Harvard - Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs

 

[Conservative]

Holy ****...
:doh

The Iran Nuclear Deal, by the Numbers - Harvard - Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs

Don't you find it amazing that we have such experts in this country about what went on and is going on in a CLOSED country? You buy what you want to believe, I prefer to believe you cannot trust the Iranians and never will. You cannot reform religious zealots who want to create a Caliphate

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Don't you find it amazing that we have such experts in this country about what went on and is going on in a CLOSED country? You buy what you want to believe, I prefer to believe you cannot trust the Iranians and never will. You cannot reform religious zealots who want to create a Caliphate

Wow.... Wow.... The face of denial is pathetic.

 

[RetiredNSmilin]

You know, I am no fan of Obama, but why all of a sudden did Cheney pop out of the woodwork with that woman beside him?

Like who cares what he has to say?

 

[Fearandloathing]

Wow.... Wow.... The face of denial is pathetic.

What's pathetic is that you are arguing something now over ten years and which was voted FOR by most of the Democratic congress.

Please show us where Biden, Clinton etc. voted against it when they had the opportunity...

 

[Conservative]

Wow.... Wow.... The face of denial is pathetic.

kind of like people like you who want to believe something thus are incapable of considering you could be wrong. Do you realize that much of that chart you posted is predictions as no one knows for sure. The face of liberalism and their hatred is the true definition of pathetic.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

What's pathetic is that you are arguing something now over ten years and which was voted FOR by most of the Democratic congress.

Please show us where Biden, Clinton etc. voted against it when they had the opportunity...

Vote against what? What is, "it"?