Cheaper Access to Education Needed

[JP Hochbaum]

So as I have been researching many things while going back into the collegiate world I stumbled upon many things that should make my generation and younger ones angry about how difficult it is to obtain an education these days. So I wrote a piece about it filled with disheartening facts on these burdens we face, more so than previous generations.

"While it is apparent that access to college has improved, what has lagged and become grossly more unequal, is the ability to afford it and thus graduate. One issue with affordability is that education is not an industry in which productivity gains make things cheaper. Productivity has relatively stayed the same in schools, and thus the cost for education will rise, because wages to pay teachers will inevitably rise.

But teacher salaries have barely risen for it to be blamed for rising education costs. The biggest culprit has been the lack of state spending on education. This report here: Subsidies reducing, tuition payments increasing (page 31 and beyond), shows how subsidies to help pay for education aren’t keeping pace with the rising costs (%1,000 increase in 3 decades), so out of pocket student tuition has to make up for that (credit bubble anyone?)."

Cheaper Access to Education Needed for Equality. | Heretical Druthers

 

[Tigger]

As soon as Education becomes a Right and a Constitutional Mandate, I'll be right there with you. However, since it is properly a Privilege and there is no mandate for ANY spending on it at the Federal level (no mention in the Constitution), then at best it is a STATE level issue and nothing more.

 

[Helix]

Cheaper Access to Education Needed

i agree completely. a college educated population benefits everyone, not just the students. that a first world country hasn't figured this out just blows my mind. we're actually encouraging people not to get educated by making education almost prohibitively expensive for large chunks of the population. it's poor policy.

 

[Fisher]

States subsidize education. It would seem in my state however that the level of state spending at public colleges is directly affected by the number of alums in the legislature. Most alums in the legislature gets you the most spending; no alums in the legislature gets you on the bottom of the payout.

 

[Paschendale]

The jobs that people increasingly need to do are more complex and require using more complicated technology than for previous generations. The same amount of education is simply not enough to be a competent member of society. As our lives lengthen, the proportion spent in education isn't shrinking. For our society to be strong and prosperous, everyone needs a thorough and effective education.

 

[Tigger]

The jobs that people increasingly need to do are more complex and require using more complicated technology than for previous generations. The same amount of education is simply not enough to be a competent member of society. As our lives lengthen, the proportion spent in education isn't shrinking. For our society to be strong and prosperous, everyone needs a thorough and effective education.

Fine. However, they need to EARN that Education, not simply have it handed to them on a silver platter.

 

[Henrin]

I find myself bored with this constant demand for free stuff. We already have public universities and if you ask me that is already going to far. I have no desire to do anything more.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I think you have it backwards. Education costs have risen because gov't funding has risen to allow that to happen.

Total Federal Spending On Elementary and Secondary Education | Intellectual Takeout (ITO)

 

[Paschendale]

Fine. However, they need to EARN that Education, not simply have it handed to them on a silver platter.

And how exactly does a person do that? By working to save up for it? Increasingly, there are no jobs that do not require that education that will pay for the education. The learning how to do the job has to happen before doing the job. Maybe have businesses fund a student's education in exchange for a certain number of years working for them upon graduation. Everyone wins. Students get educated and employed, and employers get employees that they know are properly trained.

The idea that a person ought to suddenly be all on their own at 18 and have to start building themselves up with minimum wage jobs and move on from there is an outdated model that hasn't been valid for 20 years and never will be again.

 

[PirateMk1]

So as I have been researching many things while going back into the collegiate world I stumbled upon many things that should make my generation and younger ones angry about how difficult it is to obtain an education these days. So I wrote a piece about it filled with disheartening facts on these burdens we face, more so than previous generations.

"While it is apparent that access to college has improved, what has lagged and become grossly more unequal, is the ability to afford it and thus graduate. One issue with affordability is that education is not an industry in which productivity gains make things cheaper. Productivity has relatively stayed the same in schools, and thus the cost for education will rise, because wages to pay teachers will inevitably rise.

But teacher salaries have barely risen for it to be blamed for rising education costs. The biggest culprit has been the lack of state spending on education. This report here: Subsidies reducing, tuition payments increasing (page 31 and beyond), shows how subsidies to help pay for education aren’t keeping pace with the rising costs (%1,000 increase in 3 decades), so out of pocket student tuition has to make up for that (credit bubble anyone?)."

Cheaper Access to Education Needed for Equality. | Heretical Druthers

Here's a counter intuitive thought. Take away government funding of tuition for colleges and universities. Make their funding zero from the government. We spend more on education per pupil than ANYONE in the world. By all rights we should be the most educated. We are not. Time to think out of the box. The reasons the costs are rising is because of a flood of government dollars. High demand. Why do you think all of those private institutions are opening up. The ones with NO accreditation. But they get a piece of the government pie. It also means that institutions can charge top dollar because they are NOT competing for students, students are competing to get in. The way to cut costs for college so normal people can afford it is to cost the government subsidies. Everywhere you find government subsidies you will find high costs. Coincidence. I don't think so. The other thing is put public university and college classes online and don't charge for them if people want the certifications just charge to take a final for certification of class completion and make it eligible for accreditation and applicable for a degree. This way the universities face a double whammy competition and lose of ready revenue. Private institution wants money they are gonna have to EARN it. Eventually prices will go down to a level that people can actually afford. The good thing about knowledge is its immanently portable and once acquired fairly cheap to disseminate.

 

[Tigger]

And how exactly does a person do that? By working to save up for it? Increasingly, there are no jobs that do not require that education that will pay for the education. The learning how to do the job has to happen before doing the job. Maybe have businesses fund a student's education in exchange for a certain number of years working for them upon graduation. Everyone wins. Students get educated and employed, and employers get employees that they know are properly trained.

A person does that by working hard before they get to college.... to find funding, through whatever means are necessary (scholarships, loans, personal and family savings, etc...) for whatever education is necessary for their CAREER. Your suggestion is a fine one for programs that have a career at the end of them. I'm not sure how many businesses are going to want to finance a student's MA in Humanities though.

The idea that a person ought to suddenly be all on their own at 18 and have to start building themselves up with minimum wage jobs and move on from there is an outdated model that hasn't been valid for 20 years and never will be again.

If they've waited until their 18 to get a job, they're 2-3 years late so far as I'm concerned. Many states now allow youth to start part-time jobs as early as age 15 these days. The biggest problem these days is that these kids want to go off to college, waste 5-6 years of their lives and then expect someone to pay them a six figure salary with no experience and a better education in beer pong than whatever their major was.

 

[MaggieD]

i agree completely. a college educated population benefits everyone, not just the students. that a first world country hasn't figured this out just blows my mind. we're actually encouraging people not to get educated by making education almost prohibitively expensive for large chunks of the population. it's poor policy.

Anyone who wants to get a college education can get one. They simply need to start planning when they're in high school. Good grades . . . sports initiatives . . . scholarships . . . loans . . . it's there for everyone.

If community colleges and state colleges were mandated to have interchangeable credits, there wouldn't be a problem. College tuition would drop as demand fell away in the first and second years.

 

[Mach]

But teacher salaries have barely risen for it to be blamed for rising education costs. The biggest culprit has been the lack of state spending on education

Everyone knows education is at its cheapest in all of human history. We all have more access to more information, teaching, texts, technology, etc., etc., than we ever had at any time in the sum total of all human existence. In large part, it's free or nearly free. Can you find an argument more at odds with reality? What a waste of time...of course, it's not about education, it's about money isn't it.....
And with online education growing, despite the opposition that we know fears it, the face of education will change like every...other...major..industry as a result. They are just delaying the inevitable, and milking taxpayers all the while.

Yet knowledge is worthless to society without applying it, and what we have today is a wealth of knowledge, and a defecit of applying it to every day life. Everyone should know this, it seems obvious. In other words, stop all this pro teacher money grab stuff and get a real job to gain some real life perspective.

 

[Diogenes]

I think you have it backwards. Education costs have risen because gov't funding has risen to allow that to happen.

Exactly. When I started college in my hometown, I had a $50 scholarship that paid for half of my first semester tuition. It would be interesting to see a chart showing the federal minimum wage, tuition (at land grant colleges), and federal funding over the last 50 years or so.

 

[Mach]

The idea that a person ought to suddenly be all on their own at 18 and have to start building themselves up with minimum wage jobs and move on from there is an outdated model that hasn't been valid for 20 years and never will be again.

That's so absurd, when has that ever been the model Pasch? Parents have since all of human history been involved in preparing their children for adulthood. Is there were you tell us that taxpayers are actualy the ones that should be fiscally and constitutionally obliged to teach you how to be a productive member of society and earn more than you consume?

Starting a min wage job as a first job is outdated? WTF are you learning in this so called high education you're getting? Good lord, we're doomed.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

I think you have it backwards. Education costs have risen because gov't funding has risen to allow that to happen.

Total Federal Spending On Elementary and Secondary Education | Intellectual Takeout (ITO)

The costs have increased by %1000 and the graph you posted showed subsidies rising by 100%. Not a very convincing argument there.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Exactly. When I started college in my hometown, I had a $50 scholarship that paid for half of my first semester tuition. It would be interesting to see a chart showing the federal minimum wage, tuition (at land grant colleges), and federal funding over the last 50 years or so.

This is close:

Cost Of College Degree In U.S. Has Increased 1,120 Percent In 30 Years, Report Says

 

[Helix]

Anyone who wants to get a college education can get one. They simply need to start planning when they're in high school. Good grades . . . sports initiatives . . . scholarships . . . loans . . . it's there for everyone.

If community colleges and state colleges were mandated to have interchangeable credits, there wouldn't be a problem. College tuition would drop as demand fell away in the first and second years.

yeah, but the prospect of entering a lousy job market while saddled with tens of thousands in debt discourages a lot of people from going to school. we all]/i] suffer the consequences of an undereducated population. i'd like to at least see many more low cost options.

 

[Mach]

The costs have increased by %1000 and the graph you posted showed subsidies rising by 100%. Not a very convincing argument there.

Buy a ****ing Raspberry Pi, they are $25.
Raspberry Pi comes to U.S., sells out in hours - CNN.com

Not surprising they are being eyed for education and children applications. Why not go solve some real world problems instead of living in that absurd echo-chamber?

 

[ttwtt78640]

The costs have increased by %1000 and the graph you posted showed subsidies rising by 100%. Not a very convincing argument there.

I addressed only overall federal education spending and not for college.

Cost Of College Degree In U.S. Has Increased 1,120 Percent In 30 Years, Report Says

 

[Tigger]

yeah, but the prospect of entering a lousy job market while saddled with tens of thousands in debt discourages a lot of people from going to school. we all]/i] suffer the consequences of an undereducated population. i'd like to at least see many more low cost options.

I would suggest that we suffer as much from an overeductated population as well.

 

[MaggieD]

yeah, but the prospect of entering a lousy job market while saddled with tens of thousands in debt discourages a lot of people from going to school. we all]/i] suffer the consequences of an undereducated population. i'd like to at least see many more low cost options.

How many more? We have community colleges. In-state is certainly considerably cheaper than out-of-state. On-line study is available. Advanced degrees are often subsidized by employers. Just how many more low-cost options do we need?

 

[Helix]

I would suggest that we suffer as much from an overeductated population as well.

i don't agree.

 

[Mach]

I would suggest that we suffer as much from an overeductated population as well.

And worse, overeducated on the subjects that the market isn't demanding....so tragic.

 

[Helix]

How many more? We have community colleges. In-state is certainly considerably cheaper than out-of-state. On-line study is available. Advanced degrees are often subsidized by employers. Just how many more low-cost options do we need?

enough options and policy changes that the average student loan debt isn't $26,600.

Project on Student Debt: State by State Data

it's a serious disincentive.