Canada Could Scrap $13 Billion F-35 Fighter Jet Deal With US (1 Viewer)

[german hick]

hi Mika,
world goes crazy. It´s good to know there are some sane countries left.

 

[Peter]

I think the UK will limit our buy to about 75 aircraft as that means we can have both carriers with 30 and 15 spare.

We were intending to buy 136 but I think we'll opt for 36 more Eurofighters and plough some extra cash into the development of a 6th gen jet with team Tempest.

 

[Rich2018]

I think the UK will limit our buy to about 75 aircraft as that means we can have both carriers with 30 and 15 spare.

Hopelessly inadequate IMO

The new UK aircraft carriers need to carry 60-80 fixed wing aircraft, not 20-30 VSTOL aircraft.

 

[JMB1911A1]

Hopelessly inadequate IMO

The new UK aircraft carriers need to carry 60-80 fixed wing aircraft, not 20-30 VSTOL aircraft.

Well, the UK designed the carriers with no catapults or arresting gear and a ski jump. Guess they should have consulted with you on the design.

 

[Peter]

Hopelessly inadequate IMO

The new UK aircraft carriers need to carry 60-80 fixed wing aircraft, not 20-30 VSTOL aircraft.

The 30 each can leave space for Apaches and some UAV aircraft.
I would like more but the UK has a limited budget even with the increase spending and I'd rather have more Eurofighters.

There is also some discussion about making the second carrier into a full litoral strike carrier with only a few F35 and mostly helicopters for land assaults but I'm unsure if we will go down that road.
The new Apaches we have are navalised and could make for an extremely effective asset with a bunch of UAVs and we also have a bunch of brand new Wildcat helicopters as well for naval missions and the mix would be great.
Add in a bunch of chinooks and we can also land a sizable force for any beach assault.

It's all about getting the best kit for the money we have.

 

[JMB1911A1]

The 30 each can leave space for Apaches and some UAV aircraft.
I would like more but the UK has a limited budget even with the increase spending and I'd rather have more Eurofighters.

There is also some discussion about making the second carrier into a full litoral strike carrier with only a few F35 and mostly helicopters for land assaults but I'm unsure if we will go down that road.
The new Apaches we have are navalised and could make for an extremely effective asset with a bunch of UAVs and we also have a bunch of brand new Wildcat helicopters as well for naval missions and the mix would be great.

The AH-64E Apaches are not “navalised”. They have a maritime mode of the radar, that is it. They didn’t have folding rotors or tail booms for storage or maritime corrosion protection coatings.

Add in a bunch of chinooks and we can also land a sizable force for any beach assault.

It's all about getting the best kit for the money we have.

 

[Fledermaus]

Hopelessly inadequate IMO

The new UK aircraft carriers need to carry 60-80 fixed wing aircraft, not 20-30 VSTOL aircraft.

Why?

 

[Fledermaus]

The AH-64E Apaches are not “navalised”. They have a maritime mode of the radar, that is it. They didn’t have folding rotors or tail booms for storage or maritime corrosion protection coatings.

AH-1W and AH-1Z on the other hand....

 

[Peter]

The AH-64E Apaches are not “navalised”. They have a maritime mode of the radar, that is it. They didn’t have folding rotors or tail booms for storage or maritime corrosion protection coatings.

The UK has already trialed Apaches being used on the carriers.
They must think they'll be OK as they wouldn't risk such expensive helicopters when we only have 50 of them.

 

[JMB1911A1]

The UK has already trialed Apaches being used on the carriers.
They must think they'll be OK as they wouldn't risk such expensive helicopters when we only have 50 of them.

But they are not navalized. We deploy Army helicopters all the time but that is not the same as a navalized helicopter.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Denmark's defense committee head said he regrets choosing the F-35: 'We must avoid American weapons if at all possible'

Citing fears that the US may use weapons support as leverage against Denmark, Rasmus Jarlov said buying American weapons is now "a security risk."

www.businessinsider.com

3.23.25
The chairman of Denmark's parliamentary defense committee said he regrets choosing the F-35 for his country, citing fears that the US may threaten to cease support for the fighter. "As one of the decision-makers behind Denmark's purchase of F-35s, I regret it," Rasmus Jarlov, a member of parliament for the center-right Conservative People's Party, wrote on social media on Wednesday. He added that the US could scupper Copenhagen's use of the F-35 just by stopping the supply of spare parts — a similar dilemma that Ukraine faced when Washington temporarily paused military aid. "I can easily imagine a situation where the USA will demand Greenland from Denmark and will threaten to deactivate our weapons and let Russia attack us when we refuse," wrote Jarlov, who is also his party's spokesperson for his stance on Greenland's affairs.

Jarlov further accused the US of wanting "to strengthen Russia and weaken Europa." "Therefore, buying American weapons is a security risk that we cannot run. We will make enormous investments in air defense, fighter jets, artillery, and other weapons in the coming years, and we must avoid American weapons if at all possible," he said. "I encourage our friends and allies to do the same," Jarlov added. His comments come as President Donald Trump has said that he wants to buy or annex Greenland, an autonomous territory of Denmark that's rich in minerals and can provide the US with a strategic location near the Arctic. Leaders in both Greenland and Denmark have repeatedly resisted Trump's statements, saying their governments had no interest in the territory coming under US administration or rule. "There is no threat from China against Greenland and China has no presence in Greenland," Jarlov wrote on Sunday. "The only threat against Greenland is the USA."

By and large, how Europe views Donald Trump's mutalited version of America.

 

[Bodi]

And then therre are the senseless Trump tariffs on Canada which, in effect, are a form of economic warfare on neighboring Canada.

^^ THIS ^^

 

[Mika-El]

I think the UK will limit our buy to about 75 aircraft as that means we can have both carriers with 30 and 15 spare.

We were intending to buy 136 but I think we'll opt for 36 more Eurofighters and plough some extra cash into the development of a 6th gen jet with team Tempest.

There was no way anyone saw this coming. Its too bad. In hindsight I doubt European nations , Canada, Australia, New Zealand, all Nato and Euro nations can ever again fully trust the US. What a damn shame but we can and will manage. Canada may be small compared to Britain but we will always support Britain and France, AUs, NZ, European and NATO nations. Its in our blood.

 

[Mika-El]

Denmark's defense committee head said he regrets choosing the F-35: 'We must avoid American weapons if at all possible'

Citing fears that the US may use weapons support as leverage against Denmark, Rasmus Jarlov said buying American weapons is now "a security risk."

www.businessinsider.com

By and large, how Europe views Donald Trump's mutalited version of America.

Canada, Australia, New Zealand and now from what I hear even Israel is questioning Netanyahu's very close ties to Trump wondering if his alliance with Putin makes it truly possible to rely on the US like it used to. Its world wide phenomena. We in Canada take Trump's threat to annex us and Greenland very seriously. Having the US in NATO after these two threats makes it very very tense. He's clearly a compromised dupe of Putin.

NONE OF MY COMMENTS ARE DIRECTED AT THE US MILITARY. They are directed at Trump. I have good friends in the US military, They can not speak out but they do not agree with Trump and I know on a personal level they are good people. I hate this crap.

 

[Rich2018]

The 30 each can leave space for Apaches and some UAV aircraft.

60+ fixed wing aircraft will still do that

The QE2 class is meant to be an AIRCRAFT carrier, not a helicopter or UAV carrier.

 

[Fledermaus]

60+ fixed wing aircraft will still do that

The QE2 class is meant to be an AIRCRAFT carrier, not a helicopter or UAV carrier.

Helicopters are AIRCRAFT.

 

[JMB1911A1]

60+ fixed wing aircraft will still do that

The QE2 class is meant to be an AIRCRAFT carrier, not a helicopter or UAV carrier.

Well, since the QE2 class has neither catapults or arresting gear, the only aircraft that will work on them is either the antiquated AV-8B or the F-35B. Thank you for making the case that the UK should buy more F-35Bs.

 

[Rogue Valley]

It's extremely difficult to trust a Trump administration that is sympatico with Putin's Russia and discusses its war plans on Signal.

Pete Hegseth denies texting war plans to journalist

On Monday, The Atlantic reported that Hegseth and Trump officials used Signal to relay plans for US military strikes in Yemen.

www.newsweek.com

 

[gman]

It's extremely difficult to trust a Trump administration that is sympatico with Putin's Russia and discusses its war plans on Signal.

Pete Hegseth denies texting war plans to journalist

On Monday, The Atlantic reported that Hegseth and Trump officials used Signal to relay plans for US military strikes in Yemen.

www.newsweek.com

This is when the stadium crowd breaks out in unison: ASSHOLE, ASSHOLE, ASSHOLE.

 

[Rich2018]

Well, since the QE2 class has neither catapults or arresting gear, the only aircraft that will work on them is either the antiquated AV-8B or the F-35B. Thank you for making the case that the UK should buy more F-35Bs.

I read that the Queen Elizabeth class were build with catapults and arresting gear but are just not operational:

"It was also announced that the operational carrier would have catapult and arrestor gear (CATOBAR) installed to accommodate the carrier variant of the F-35 rather than the short-take off and vertical-landing version. It was decided to use the next-generation Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) catapult and Advanced Arresting Gear (AAG) instead of the more conventional systems which the design had originally been specified to be compatible with"

Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Apparently, the Royal Navy is looking at reversing this and fit the necessary equipment to operate the assisted take-off system:

Royal Navy Wants To Refit Its Carriers With Catapults, Arresting Wires

The U.K. has outlined a plan to get advanced fixed-wing drones, and possibly crewed tailhook-equipped planes, operating from its carriers.

www.twz.com

 

[JMB1911A1]

I read that the Queen Elizabeth class were build with catapults and arresting gear but are just not operational:

"It was also announced that the operational carrier would have catapult and arrestor gear (CATOBAR) installed to accommodate the carrier variant of the F-35 rather than the short-take off and vertical-landing version. It was decided to use the next-generation Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) catapult and Advanced Arresting Gear (AAG) instead of the more conventional systems which the design had originally been specified to be compatible with"

Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Apparently, the Royal Navy is looking at reversing this and fit the necessary equipment to operate the assisted take-off system:

Royal Navy Wants To Refit Its Carriers With Catapults, Arresting Wires

The U.K. has outlined a plan to get advanced fixed-wing drones, and possibly crewed tailhook-equipped planes, operating from its carriers.

www.twz.com

That would be a major change and very expensive. I doubt that the UK has the willpower to follow through.

The Royal Navy has ambitious plans for its Future Maritime Aviation Force | Navy Lookout

www.navylookout.com

Oh, btw, what would be the best aircraft to buy for a CATOBAR carrier that is compatible with the existing RN fleet? F-35C.

 

[Rich2018]

That would be a major change and very expensive. I doubt that the UK has the willpower to follow through.

Not sure, if the flight decks were originally constructed with catapult rails, then it might not be hard to bring them to operational status.

Oh, btw, what would be the best aircraft to buy for a CATOBAR carrier that is compatible with the existing RN fleet? F-35C.

Probably, especially as the Royal Navy and RAF already fly the F-35.

 

[JMB1911A1]

Not sure, if the flight decks were originally constructed with catapult rails, then it might not be hard to bring them to operational status.

Read the article I linked. They don’t. The UK government ****ed this up royally. If they wanted an actual capable carrier, they should have paid for CATOBAR from day one. Now they will end up spending more money and still have less capability.

Probably, especially as the Royal Navy and RAF already fly the F-35.

Good, more F-35 sales.

 

[Rich2018]

Read the article I linked. They don’t. The UK government ****ed this up royally. If they wanted an actual capable carrier, they should have paid for CATOBAR from day one. Now they will end up spending more money and still have less capability.

I read that they did

In hindsight, the carriers did need to have assisted takeoff and arrester gear. You could also argue that ships of that size really need nuclear powered propulsion, but at the time the British government were trying to keep costs down and not have them balloon, as US warship construction tends to do

 

[JMB1911A1]

I read that they did

In hindsight, the carriers did need to have assisted takeoff and arrester gear. You could also argue that ships of that size really need nuclear powered propulsion, but at the time the British government were trying to keep costs down and not have them balloon, as US warship construction tends to do

So, the Uk ended up with what we would basically call an LHA. An amphibious assault ship. Useless for projecting power. No AEW aircraft. No EW aircraft.