Can you live on Minimum Wage

Aderleth · Dec 18, 2012

specklebang said:
Lived there for a year and the COL is incomprehensible. I moved back to Vegas and I'm never leaving again.

It certainly ain't cheap here. In my opinion it's worth the expense to live in a city with some of the best nightlife, restaurants, and cultural centers in the world. Not to mention the seemingly endless supply of smart, well-educated hot girls. I'm starting to suspect they grow them in a vat somewhere, then release them into the wild with a gym membership and a pair of yoga pants.

OscarB63 · Dec 18, 2012

Aderleth said:
Oh I believe you. I'm just surprised. Vegas being an urban environment and all. In SF you're lucky to find a studio for $1200 or so. I think the median price for a 1 bedroom is around $2k, depending on the neighborhood. If you ever want to give yourself a heart attack, browse the craigslist ads in SF.

yeah, SF sucks ass. friend of my wife lives there and she and her husband have a house that is in the 700K range. same house in my area would go for around 30K

Aderleth · Dec 18, 2012

OscarB63 said:
yeah, SF sucks ass. friend of my wife lives there and she and her husband have a house that is in the 700K range. same house in my area would go for around 30K

It's certainly pricey here, but again: there are reasons for that. Lots of demand + small amount of livable land = high housing prices. Again, it's worth it for the many, many advantages of living in a large, extremely cosmopolitan city.

Carjosse · Dec 18, 2012

OscarB63 said:
yeah, SF sucks ass. friend of my wife lives there and she and her husband have a house that is in the 700K range. same house in my area would go for around 30K

It might not be worth it to you but it is some people. I would rather live a downtown condo in Toronto or Vancouver than in the country, small town, or suburb.

OscarB63 · Dec 18, 2012

0bserver92 said:
It might not be worth it to you but it is some people. I would rather live a downtown condo in Toronto or Vancouver than in the country, small town, or suburb.

sorry dude, but it isn't worth over 600K to live in downtown SF than in smalltown USA...at least not to me. I can buy a lot of "big city experience" for 600K

Manc Skipper · Dec 18, 2012

OscarB63 said:
you man up and stop being a bitch. when i was 24 years old i worked construction ($6/hr in the late 80s) 14-16 hours a day 5 days a week (MWFSS) and went to college on Tuesdays and Thursdays. my wife, i and two kids lived in a crappy 3 room apartment over a copier shop and lived off beans, rice and whatever veggies we could grow in window boxes. i did this for a year and a half until i graduated and got a job that paid better.

I lived in a hole in the road with twelve brothers and worked 25 hours a day at mill..... Not everyone is as capable as you, has the intellect, or the drive, whatever. Minimum wage might be an aspiration for some. A civilised society cares for those at the bottom.
In the present economic climate, there will be many unemployed who are overqualified for minimum wage jobs, but have no option since that is the only work that's hiring.

CalGun · Dec 18, 2012

In some places minimum wage comes with health insurance, and in some places not. That
would be a significant factor. In my former business I paid a woman $11.75 an hour with
a stipulation that if she took less than 3 weeks off a year she got a $2k IRA contribution from
me on July 1; I paid that each of the three years she worked for me. She did this well into
2010 beyond my ownership of the business and late in 2010 on income of $12 an hour,
with two kids, no dad, and helpful parents she put her life savings into a $99,000 home in
central CA. She put $24k down, paid about $2k more in other costs, and has mortgage of
$400 a month. Taxes, insurance, local utilities (not electric) put her cost of housing at
less than $700 - far below the $925 rent she was paying for an apartment. She's always
had fellow co workers living with her on room rentals - and I think she still does.

Carjosse · Dec 18, 2012

OscarB63 said:
sorry dude, but it isn't worth over 600K to live in downtown SF than in smalltown USA...at least not to me. I can buy a lot of "big city experience" for 600K

Like I said to you it might not be but to others it is. I would rather pay the cost to live in a big city because well small towns suck, the country is practically hell, and the suburbs are boring.

Aderleth · Dec 18, 2012

OscarB63 said:
sorry dude, but it isn't worth over 600K to live in downtown SF than in smalltown USA...at least not to me. I can buy a lot of "big city experience" for 600K

1) Nobody owns a home in downtown SF. There aren't any. It's all apartments.

2) Visiting a city is not remotely the same as living in one. There're many, many things that I have at my fingertips all the time that you just don't.

3) Luxuries and commodities aside, it's also generally easier to make a good living in a large urban environment with a thriving economy than it is to do so in a small town. :shrug:

Carjosse · Dec 18, 2012

Aderleth said:
1) Nobody owns a home in downtown SF. There aren't any. It's all apartments.

2) Visiting a city is not remotely the same as living in one. There're many, many things that I have at my fingertips all the time that you just don't.

3) Luxuries and commodities aside, it's also generally easier to make a good living in a large urban environment with a thriving economy than it is to do so in a small town. :shrug:

Are condos not a thing in San Francisco? In Toronto there has been a condo boom lately driving prices skyrocketing.

lpast · Dec 18, 2012

Zyphlin said:
You are not entitled to live in your own apartment by yourself, let alone your own two bedroom apartment as your original link showed.

lol ok...what are you entitled to do then...live in a box in an alley or apply for govt assisted housing section 8

TheGirlNextDoor · Dec 18, 2012

Aderleth said:
It's certainly pricey here, but again: there are reasons for that. Lots of demand + small amount of livable land = high housing prices. Again, it's worth it for the many, many advantages of living in a large, extremely cosmopolitan city.

For you and others, sure. I'd like my house investment to pay me back later in life. I live very close to a metropolitan city and could care less to be in the middle of an over populated, dirty and generally suck ass city.

But that's me.

I get more bang for my buck by owning a home and driving 20 minutes to an urban city. That is worth it to me.

lpast · Dec 18, 2012

DVSentinel said:
I disagree. If minimum wage were raised to $12 an hour, the cost of pretty much everything would rise, within a very short time, the ratio of pay to cost would be right back to where it is today. And while this adjustment occurs, since it will affect everyones wages, how many jobs currently still in America end up elsewhere because labor costs are just to high to compete?

Well zyphlin says no one is entitled to live in an apt alone...then your not entitled to cheap goods and services

lpast · Dec 18, 2012

jamesrage said:
The people doing that article must not be looking hard enough because in my city you can find a two bedroom apartment all bills paid for about 680 a month.
Brixton, Magnolia, Fulton Plaza,Highland Park Apartments for Rent | Tulsa OK Apartments on Apartmentfinder.com

I dont believe that..unless its in a tenement

Aderleth · Dec 18, 2012

0bserver92 said:
Are condos not a thing in San Francisco? In Toronto there has been a condo boom lately driving prices skyrocketing.

Oh they are, they just don't exist downtown. There're probably some in SOMA (South of Market, just outside of the financial district), and plenty in upscale residential neighborhoods like Pacific Heights and Cole Valley. I don't know how the condo market is doing (I rent, as I'm currently still paying off law school debt), but I know the median house price here is about $800k, and in the really nice neighborhoods is slightly over $1mil.

Catawba · Dec 18, 2012

RDS said:
Instead of complaining about minimum wages equip yourself with the skills and training to find some skilled job which pays higher than the minimum wage.

There are 4 people for every job opening, which shows that lack of job skills is not the main problem, and because of this, more and more overqualified adults and full-time workers are only being paid minimum wage.

For Each U.S. Job Opening, 4.6 Unemployed

"As an increasing number of workers take on low-wage jobs, poverty in the United States has increased: In 2005, 12.6% of Americans were living in poverty, compared to 15.7% this year (almost 50 million citizens)–the highest rate of poverty since 1965. Raising the minimum wage to a living wage would hopefully help to reverse this trend."
How Raising the Minimum Wage Would Help the Economy LearnVest

lpast · Dec 18, 2012

Zyphlin said:
And you'd have even less american's getting it if you forced it up to some kind of "living wage" since you'll likely have numerous instances where a place of business either can't afford to hire enough people to actually make it worth while profitability wise and still run the business OR is able to continue to run it bu thas to cut back on the number of employees due to the increased cost of payroll.

OR I guess you could go the other route and CONTINUE to feed the beast that is the government, deciding to take even more money on the backs of our children's futures, spending even more money we don't have and have no feasable way to tax into existance to help those who honestly are stuck in a bad situation survive AND those who through their own choices and decisions have placed themselves in such a situation continue to sponge off the rest of society with the least amount of effort.

Too many conservatives confuse profit and greed...theyve become synonomous with business today..a generation before the rich had their own self imposed limits and shared some of the wealth with their workers who made them rich...today its all about me..so you have to force them to share..

lpast · Dec 18, 2012

Aderleth said:
Not where I live, you can't. And the minimum wage here is about $10/hr. I'm pretty sure that most people who make minimum wage here a) live outside of the city (which is still expensive, but not as much), B) work multiple jobs, and/or C) live with a ****-ton of roommates in cramped environments. Probably some combination of all three of those things.

There ya go a realist...a person that sees the reality of how some are living

Carjosse · Dec 18, 2012

Aderleth said:
Oh they are, they just don't exist downtown. There're probably some in SOMA (South of Market, just outside of the financial district), and plenty in upscale residential neighborhoods like Pacific Heights and Cole Valley. I don't know how the condo market is doing (I rent, as I'm currently still paying off law school debt), but I know the median house price here is about $800k, and in the really nice neighborhoods is slightly over $1mil.

I know in Toronto condos are a big thing and because of it average rent of a apartments is 1200$/month. Average home price is 800,000$ and average condo was 500,000$. Vancouver is in the same category. Montreal is much cheaper at an average of 300,000$ for a home.

Aderleth · Dec 18, 2012

TheGirlNextDoor said:
For you and others, sure. I'd like my house investment to pay me back later in life. I live very close to a metropolitan city and could care less to be in the middle of an over populated, dirty and generally suck ass city.

But that's me.

I get more bang for my buck by owning a home and driving 20 minutes to an urban city. That is worth it to me.

Meh. Suburbs are ****ing boring. There's nothing to do, and you can't very well drive into the city and go out drinking. Not unless you want to pay some serious cabfare or risk a DUI/death. I understand that many people would rather have the space and quiet of a suburb. Personally I'd go completely out of my mind.

lpast · Dec 18, 2012

Verthaine said:
You are right about not everybody is going to be rich and successful through hard work (but not going to college didn't stop me from busting my ass and owning my own business.I owned my first restaurant for 5 years before I even went to Le Cordon Bleu to get my degree in Culinary Arts) but that doesn't mean they can't be productive,develop a skill or hone their inborn talent and have a good living (that's what I did).
If one wants to better ones life,there are legal and legitimate ways to do it without relying on an agency (the government) that not only does big things badly,but does small things just as bad.

If a person is satisfied with living on minimum,I have no problem with that.If not the instead of bitching about it,do something about it.

My wife and I owned several business...Im not making this comment about you..I dont know you or anything about you...but I love how everyone that owned a business tells me how they busted their ass..and how I know many of them that are full of crap
Not everyone can own a business or start one...many arent smart enough or could never get the start money.
Just think if everyone was well off...who would clean the toilets and cut the grass and raise the richs kids while they play

specklebang · Dec 18, 2012

The women are mostly vat-grown clones.

Actually, I lived with a high-priced call girl during my time in SF. $600 for 90 minutes incall. I got sick and tired of not being able to go 50 feet without some homeless person asking me for money. I got tired of paying a fortune for a basic meal. I got tired of searching for a parking space. I hope I never set foot in SF again.

And no, Miss Ho and I are no longer "special friends" which probably is the root of my bitterness.:roll:

Aderleth said:
It certainly ain't cheap here. In my opinion it's worth the expense to live in a city with some of the best nightlife, restaurants, and cultural centers in the world. Not to mention the seemingly endless supply of smart, well-educated hot girls. I'm starting to suspect they grow them in a vat somewhere, then release them into the wild with a gym membership and a pair of yoga pants.

lpast · Dec 18, 2012

tessaesque said:
You keep saying "no one can live on minimum wage". I've proven it's possible to do so in my area. You can change the goal posts, but it doesn't kill my argument. I used a specific scenario to show exactly why it IS possible in my area to live on minimum wage, and HOW it would be possible to do so.

Minimum wage isn't designed nor intended for anybody anywhere to live comfortably. It's a wage floor designed so that MOST WORKERS can live comfortably. Most minimum wage jobs require very few expensive or hard-to-acquire skills, can be taught "on the job", and present little liability. They are jobs that can be easily filled and often have incredibly high turn over rates. In other words, they are not jobs designed for skilled, capable adults to fill long-term as a means of achieving some abstract financial solvency goal.

As others in this thread have said: If you want to earn more than minimum wage, make yourself worth more than minimum wage by acquiring skills and developing your abilities.

I began working in 2002 as a carphop at Sonic making $5.15/hour, 15 hours a week. Without a college education, without a network of "good buddy" types helping me advance, without a hand out I'm now the manager of my department, making almost 10x the yearly salary I averaged at Sonic. I did it through hard work, reliability, and learning.

I've lived on my own since I was 19. I've never (as an adult) taken any kind of government aid except my education grants, which I earn through maintaining a high GPA (I'm required to keep a 3.6 average GPA to keep my aid).

On the other hand, I have a friend in his 40s who works for Dominos delivering pizzas. In fact, he's never had a job much above that level. He's very smart, very capable, and has tons of marketable skills..but he's never cared enough about career success to apply himself to finding a higher paying job. Why the hell should I subsidize him? He made his choice. There's absolutely nothing holding him back except himself. You can't even blame it on the economy, because he's 40...he's been doing this since he was 16. He's ALWAYS sought easy, low-responsibility employment.

Existing is not living...and I stand by in most of the country you cannot live meaning able to pay for all basic necessities...and try being a single mother on minimum wage...

DVSentinel · Dec 18, 2012

Manc Skipper said:
I lived in a hole in the road with twelve brothers and worked 25 hours a day at mill..... Not everyone is as capable as you, has the intellect, or the drive, whatever. Minimum wage might be an aspiration for some. A civilised society cares for those at the bottom.
In the present economic climate, there will be many unemployed who are overqualified for minimum wage jobs, but have no option since that is the only work that's hiring.

Saying that they should get off their ass and do something is caring. Not requiring someone to something to earn their way is a lot more damaging and a lot less caring than kicking them in the butt until they make something of themselves. Some learn discipline and ethics easily, others have to have it beat into them. If you truly care about them, you keep betting it into them until they learn.

If they are not mentally disabled, then they have the intellect to learn a skill.

If they don't have the drive, well tough titty, keep earning minimum wage and STFU, you chose it.

If we didn't care, there wouldn't be so many opportunities. What we don't do is hold a gun to their head and make them do it. Too many feel sorry for them and don't kick them in the ass to motivate them.

In the current economic climate, who gives a damned about over qualified. And after more than 4 years, if they haven't adjusted and learned a new marketable skill, well that was their choice, the opportunities are out there if they work for them. So they can suck it up and STFU also.

If minimum wage is their aspiration, then hey, let them have it. If that hard of a life style is what they want, let them have it. And if it is, they can STFU too, it's what they wanted.

As to your story about the mill, find a way, make yourself more valuable and succeed. Then you can sell you story to Hollywood on how you did it. If you are not trying to make a change and want the government to just hand you more, well, like everyone else, you, also can .....

specklebang · Dec 18, 2012

I should also add that Vegas has NO shortage of restaurants, night-life, sexy girls (not necessarily smart though) and enough cultural venues. Plus, it's the easiest place to start a business and the cost of living is negligible compared to most other places.

I moved here specifically for opportunity after visiting many other major cities (in 1973).

Aderleth said:
It certainly ain't cheap here. In my opinion it's worth the expense to live in a city with some of the best nightlife, restaurants, and cultural centers in the world. Not to mention the seemingly endless supply of smart, well-educated hot girls. I'm starting to suspect they grow them in a vat somewhere, then release them into the wild with a gym membership and a pair of yoga pants.

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