Can you give me any reason why the top 50% shouldn't pay 85-90% of all taxes?

[Cosmo]

If you went out for a meal with a millionaire and a homeless person would you still expect everyone to pay the same at the end?

What's the homeless person doing eating out?

 

[Loulit01]

Buffett, Bezos et all will simply move to any other country. No other country does this, for reasons that should be obvious.

It would kill investment in the US.

Good. Let them go.

Many countries with high tax rates do great. Sweden, Belgium, Denmark, New Zealand. Some of the countries ranked as the best places to live have high tax rates for the wealthy.

How do US taxes compare internationally?

taxpolicycenter.org

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Buffett, Bezos et all will simply move to any other country. No other country does this, for reasons that should be obvious.

It would kill investment in the US.

Real investment comes from retained earnings, corporate bonds, and bank loans. After the IPOs, stocks contribute nothing to investment or corporations.

Once you hold a lot of stock, all you are doing is skimming from real productivity in the form of dividends, but mostly your stock appreciation just comes from new buyers of stocks.

 

[Peter]

What's the homeless person doing eating out?

A treat.
Now, answer the question.

 

[Individual]

If you went out for a meal with a millionaire and a homeless person would you still expect everyone to pay the same at the end?

I'd expect each person to pay for what they ordered, unless one of them had claimed responsibility for the bill prior to ordering.

 

[Individual]

They already do. Top 20-25%. pay nearly 80% of all income tax collected. Almost 50% pay none and some even get money.

Most of the bottom 50% pay 7.65% of their income in FICA taxes and earn another 7.65% less income as a result of the employer portion of the FICA tax, while many of the top 50% have little or no FICA taxable income and far more deductions they can apply to their gross income to reduce their taxable income.

 

[Individual]

All taxes are paid from wealth.

Wealth is what remains unspent after paying taxes, paying bills, and purchasing needs/wants.

 

[Individual]

It's not "distributed" it's earned, and you getting richer in a market economy doesn't make anyone else poorer.

A better term, IMO, would be "wealth is accumulated."
More than anything, I would say that the combination of government deficit spending, growing Federal debt, inflation and currency devaluation, work in ways that make some poorer and others wealthier.

 

[Individual]

When you tax something you get less of it. Income taxes punish productivity, which is the last thing anyone should want to tax.

I noticed that to be true many decades ago, the more my FICA and income tax rates increased the less income I received. If my productivity decreased, I likely would have lost my job. Maybe it should be said, income taxes punish those who actually produce, requiring them to be more productive to maintain their employment.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Modern technological societies are expensive to maintain and the poor can’t afford that. Secondarily, the rich get the most benefit from society and should contribute more as they get their personal benefit and the accumulated benefit of those who give them the income that helped them keep their wealth. Thirdly, societies that become too too heavy can no longer maintain a stable democratic or capitalistic society (neither of which are natural occurrences).

None of these principles benefit the rich but they already have their comfort.

 

[Individual]

You pay taxes on your income, not your wealth.

Taxes would have to be greater than 100% of ones income to require using wealth to pay. Perhaps an unemployed person who has a property tax bill to pay might have to cash in some wealth to pay their taxes.

 

[Allan]

Real investment comes from retained earnings, corporate bonds, and bank loans. After the IPOs, stocks contribute nothing to investment or corporations.

Yes but the corporations that the initial investment enabled do contribute - jobs, consumption, taxes etc.

Once you hold a lot of stock, all you are doing is skimming from real productivity in the form of dividends, but mostly your stock appreciation just comes from new buyers of stocks.

Your stock appreciation mostly comes from the valuation growth of the company. Sure there can be upwards pressure due to buying but successful individual companies like Microsoft or Apple are worth a lot more today due to their size than they were in 1970.

 

[Allan]

Good. Let them go.

Many countries with high tax rates do great. Sweden, Belgium, Denmark, New Zealand. Some of the countries ranked as the best places to live have high tax rates for the wealthy.

How do US taxes compare internationally?

taxpolicycenter.org

I'm definitely on board with higher tax rates for the wealthy. But what some people are suggesting is that wealth itself be taxed as opposed to income.

 

[Loulit01]

I'm definitely on board with higher tax rates for the wealthy. But what some people are suggesting is that wealth itself be taxed as opposed to income.

Tax wealth, not work? Tough to do.

On the other hand, the capital gains tax should not be lower than the income tax. Corporate income should not be taxed at lower rate than individual income. Loopholes in the tax system must be closed. The tax code in general is a joke and needs an overhaul. Holding companies and shell corporations must be banned. The IRS should be greatly expanded and better funded as Joe Biden attempted to do, in order to catch the uberwealthy tax cheats.

 

[Allan]

On the other hand, the capital gains tax should not be lower than the income tax. Corporate income should not be taxed at lower rate than individual income. Loopholes in the tax system must be closed. The tax code in general is a joke and needs an overhaul. Holding companies and shell corporations must be banned. The IRS should be greatly expanded and better funded as Joe Biden attempted to do, in order to catch the uberwealthy tax cheats.

Agree with all this.

Warren Buffett pointed out once that if corporations paid a flat tax of 21% income tax could be completely eliminated for individuals. What's not to like about that?

 

[Logophile]

Agree with all this.

Warren Buffett pointed out once that if corporations paid a flat tax of 21% income tax could be completely eliminated for individuals. What's not to like about that?

The little problem of companies moving somewhere else

 

[BirdinHand]

“Can’t get blood from a stone”



How the hell are the poorest among us supposed to pay any more in taxes than they already do? When a solid portion of them can’t even afford to eat and live with the cost of living being what it is compared to the wages they earn?

 

[OrphanSlug]

Agree with all this.

Warren Buffett pointed out once that if corporations paid a flat tax of 21% income tax could be completely eliminated for individuals. What's not to like about that?

It is potentially regressive taxation.

Assuming for a moment you push all income tax onto corporations, then the net effect is similar to a tariff in that the corporation pushes that new cost down to the consumer, and because we all pay the same price for goods and services that increase impacts the lower income quintiles more than the higher income quintiles.

Exact same impact as a flat income tax.

 

[Fletch]

Uh, because they earn 80-90% of the money?
Or do you think every individual should pay the same amount of income tax, whatever their income is?

Yes. The percentage should be the same for everyone.

 

[WorldWatcher]

"Can you give me any reason why the top 50% shouldn't pay 85-90% of all taxes?"

I have a hard time answering this question, because it says "all taxes".

So lets see the number on tax burden as a percentage of income for "all taxes" to include Federal Income Taxes, State Income Taxes, Property Taxes, Sales Taxes, Embedded Taxess the concumer doesn't see (such as federal and stat fuel taxes) and Import Taxes (commonly called tarrifs).

Then we might be able to better understand total tax burden as a percentage of "all taxes" based on socioeconomic status.

WW

 

[BirdinHand]

Yes. The percentage should be the same for everyone.

So, the poor - that barely have enough money to eat or keep a roof over their heads - should pony up more money?

Where are they getting this money from?

 

[rickc]

So, the poor - that barely have enough money to eat or keep a roof over their heads - should pony up more money?

Where are they getting this money from?

Well that is exactly what Trump did with his consumption (tarrif) tax.

Only the wealthy elite propose a consumption or flat tax. They have no empathy for the plight of the working man or the poor.

The wealthy have spent a lot of money to get the tax code written to favor them.

 

[rickc]

The little problem of companies moving somewhere else

Not if they want access to the largest consumer market in the world. It would just take a congress that supports We the People instead of their greedy rich donors.

 

[The Brad Dad]

High earners tend to supevise large divisions which in term contribute to productivity. I'm guessing his bosses understand his value more than you.

But corporate America now says AI can replace those unreplaceable high earners. Weird.

 

[Grand Mal]

Yes. The percentage should be the same for everyone.

Exactly.