Can you debate gun control using only logical arguments... (3 Viewers)

[jaeger19]

Firearm is a means to an end and, when available, that end is easier to reach.

No tool is as efficient as a firearm, so your rationalizaton is incorrect.

You are forgettiing the prime directive of statistics-- compare equivalent populations.

1. Well that “ easier” doesn’t seem to be a factor for dying by suicide as in Japan and Korea or in the uk which has a higher murder rate than New Zealand despite having little access to guns.

2. So what? Again it does not appear to be a significant difference as Idaho would then with its easier availability of firearms have a higher murder rate than ny. Given that according to you murder is extremely hard in ny.

3. You mean when you compare other disparate countries like the uk to the us?
Lmao.
Frankly there is no problem comparing different populations in science . It’s done all the time. You simply have to account for the differences.

 

[Spock]

Militia is private citizens that own weapons. In order to have militia you must have private citizens owning firearms.

Yes. It is not a group of citizens. No random group of citizens won the Revolutionary War. In fact, no random group did anything more than get shot or hanged as traitors (such as John Brown, Shays Rebellion, or the Whiskey Rebellion) or became vigillantes (as in southern lynchings or Bloody Kansas)

You don't know what Militia is. It's like you think it's the same thing as military different spelling and pronunciation of the word should indicate different meaning.

A militia is kinda like those groups that function like a regular army to deal with rebellion by those who think that a firearm gives them the right to rebel.

If you can show me that me owning guns causes people to just be murdered or commit suicide I'll give them up right now.

Until you understand the three components required for firearm violence you will never allow yourself to understand.

 

[Spock]

Way more than the 5,000-10,000 that are murdered with firearms each year

How many more than the 20,000 murders would be sufficient and why?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Actually history is frequently misunderstood.

More often lied about - such as in this case.

No random group of colonists liberated the colonies. They were an organized militia.

Guess you missed the whole Bunker Hill incident that started the whole thing.

You are indulgins in a fantasy about firearms and that fantasy has promoted too many firearms in the USA.

You are promoting the agenda of tyrants, for obvious reasons.

The pathetic support for the gun grabber agenda is already waning - rapidly. The public is aware of the agenda. The left lacks the power to coerce the public into chains, nor the wits to con us into them.

 

[Spock]

1. Well that “ easier” doesn’t seem to be a factor for dying by suicide as in Japan and Korea or in the uk which has a higher murder rate than New Zealand despite having little access to guns.

Irrelevant and tangential.

2. So what? Again it does not appear to be a significant difference as Idaho would then with its easier availability of firearms have a higher murder rate than ny. Given that according to you murder is extremely hard in ny.

Meaningless comparison between different populations

3. You mean when you compare other disparate countries like the uk to the us?
Lmao.
Frankly there is no problem comparing different populations in science . It’s done all the time. You simply have to account for the differences.

No. The best science values adequately controlled studies. Wrong again.

 

[Spock]

More often lied about - such as in this case.



Guess you missed the whole Bunker Hill incident that started the whole thing.

You assert the value of citizen firearms but do not understand that individuals did not win the war-- an army did.

You are promoting the agenda of tyrants, for obvious reasons.

I am promoting the rule of law. The Civil War should have convinced any rational person that armed rebellion is a criminal act.

The pathetic support for the gun grabber agenda is already waning - rapidly. The public is aware of the agenda. The left lacks the power to coerce the public into chains, nor the wits to con us into them.

Chains will not be needed. Coffins, however, will.

 

[rahl]

How many more than the 20,000 murders would be sufficient and why?

There aren’t 20,000 firearm murders. There are around 40,000 firearm related deaths each year. Over half of those are suicides. There are then justified self defense shootings, justified police shootings etc. there are around 5,000-10,000 murders by firearm each year. That is an extremely smalll number.

 

[Spock]

There aren’t 20,000 firearm murders. There are around 40,000 firearm related deaths each year. Over half of those are suicides. There are then justified self defense shootings, justified police shootings etc. there are around 5,000-10,000 murders by firearm each year. That is an extremely smalll number.

Wrong. How embarassing for you?

Firearm Violence in the United States | Center for Gun Violence Solutions

publichealth.jhu.edu

 

[rahl]

Wrong. How embarassing for you?

Firearm Violence in the United States | Center for Gun Violence Solutions

publichealth.jhu.edu

This doesn’t support your assertion that there are 20,000 murders by firearm. And it’s demonstrably incorrect about the leading cause of death among children. Once again, you face plant

 

[Spock]

This doesn’t support your assertion that there are 20,000 murders by firearm. And it’s demonstrably incorrect about the leading cause of death among children. Once again, you face plant

You need to read before making your usual uninformed comments.
Here, I will identify the relevant section for your edification:

....19,651 died by firearm homicide,....

 

[rahl]

You need to read before making your usual uninformed comments.

I have been curb stomping your position since you first started posting

Here, I will identify the relevant section for your edification:

....19,651 died by firearm homicide,....

Homicide =/= murder

 

[CLAX1911]

Yes. It is not a group of citizens. No random group of citizens won the Revolutionary War.

No it was a combined effort of citizens and conscripted

In fact, no random group did anything more than get shot or hanged as traitors (such as John Brown, Shays Rebellion, or the Whiskey Rebellion) or became vigillantes (as in southern lynchings or Bloody Kansas)

Braindead twaddle

A militia is kinda like those groups that function like a regular army to deal with rebellion by those who think that a firearm gives them the right to rebel.

No the militia is not anything at all like the army it is citizens people who live in a community. There's not enlistment there is not regular duty they don't do tours it isn't sent to foreign theaters of war it's nothing at all like the army you are confused or you are dishonest.

Until you understand the three components required for firearm violence you will never allow yourself to understand.

I understand your argument it's just intellectually lazy.

The first premise of your argument is pie in the sky nonsense. If there were no guns well there are guns there will always be guns

The first condition of your argument can never be.

 

[CLAX1911]

Wrong. How embarassing for you?

Firearm Violence in the United States | Center for Gun Violence Solutions

publichealth.jhu.edu

This is an appeal to emotion and it's quite sinister.

The old give up your rights in the government will protect you scam has cost way more lives

 

[dairyair]

You are posting about your speculation. You can’t prove it. But you take speculation about ancient Chinese inventions and apply them categorically to firearms today. And that never goes well for you anti gunners.

Nobody cares about your speculation. Make a point about what you think ancient Chinese inventions has to do with firearms today.

LOL. Antigunners?

You are not to be taken seriously. I fully support the right to bear arms. So I can continue to do the hunting I enjoy.
If you can't support your position, lying about others doesn't help your case.

You care, you keep responding and asking for me to support something I have never claimed.

 

[dairyair]

Maybe you don't understand that a link to a speculative opinion isn't evidence of any fact, except that someone else shares your speculative opinion.

I understand, you don't understand.

 

[CLAX1911]

You need to read before making your usual uninformed comments.
Here, I will identify the relevant section for your edification:

....19,651 died by firearm homicide,....

Murder is illegal.

 

[rahl]

LOL. Antigunners?

Yes

You are not to be taken seriously. I fully support the right to bear arms. So I can continue to do the hunting I enjoy.

If you can't support your position, lying about others doesn't help your

YouTube made a categorical claim that was thoroughly disproven. It’s hilarious watching you flail.

You care, you keep responding and asking for me to support something I have never claimed.

Why do you lie about what you posted and the forum keeps a written record of?

 

[jaeger19]

Irrelevant and tangential.

Completely relevant.

Meaningless comparison between different populations

You mean your comparison of the us with Europe, especially the uk? Yes.
Remember this the next time you talk sbout how the us is worse for gun violence.

No. The best science values adequately controlled studies. Wrong again.

When they can be controlled. But we certainly cannot say go into the us and take all the guns away from one area and then saturate another congruent population with firearms and “ see what happens.
So you do multivariate analysis and when that done with firearms you see that the availability of firearms has little effect compared to things like poverty and racial inequity etc.
But you KNOW this already. You just can’t get past your emotional issue with firearms.
They are just a tool dude. It’s the person behind them that matters .

 

[Feynman Lives!]

No, you must accept that as a consequence of your belief that designed to kill=can be used to kill.

I have said no such thing. Looks like you're the poster that makes up CRAP and never contributes anything of value. We quickly learn they're not worth the time.

Thanks for playing...

 

[CLAX1911]

I have said no such thing. Looks like you're the poster that makes up CRAP and never contributes anything of value. We quickly learn they're not worth the time.

Thanks for playing...

Nobody here is worth your time. Maybe you're time is worthless.

 

[RF667799]

I have said no such thing. Looks like you're the poster that makes up CRAP and never contributes anything of value. We quickly learn they're not worth the time.

Thanks for playing...

You wrote:

That doesn't change the fact that it was DESIGNED to shoot people. Because people DO use it to shoot and kill others.

If you have some other way to support your claim, I would like to hear it.

 

[Spock]

No it was a combined effort of citizens and conscripted

Braindead twaddle

No the militia is not anything at all like the army it is citizens people who live in a community. There's not enlistment there is not regular duty they don't do tours it isn't sent to foreign theaters of war it's nothing at all like the army you are confused or you are dishonest.

I understand your argument it's just intellectually lazy.

The first premise of your argument is pie in the sky nonsense. If there were no guns well there are guns there will always be guns

The first condition of your argument can never be.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

 

[Spock]

This is an appeal to emotion and it's quite sinister.

The old give up your rights in the government will protect you scam has cost way more lives

The sinister aspect of firearms is that people do not recognize the massive loss of life in pursuit of convenient access to lethal weapons.
The very same people who advocate for firearms complain that there is too much firearm crime.

 

[Spock]

Completely relevant.

You mean your comparison of the us with Europe, especially the uk? Yes.
Remember this the next time you talk sbout how the us is worse for gun violence.

When they can be controlled. But we certainly cannot say go into the us and take all the guns away from one area and then saturate another congruent population with firearms and “ see what happens.
So you do multivariate analysis and when that done with firearms you see that the availability of firearms has little effect compared to things like poverty and racial inequity etc.

You should reference all these studies that prove firearm access is essentially irrelevant to firearm death and injury. Bogus!!

 

[Spock]

I have been curb stomping your position since you first started posting

Homicide =/= murder

murder must be adjudicated.
Homicide adequate reflects intentional death of a person by another.