Can you debate gun control using only logical arguments...

[RF667799]

During the assault weapons ban, the legislation was able to define their characteristics adequately.
Rather that trying to equate a semi-automatic weapon with low recoil and high capacity magazine with a single shot 22 rifle, you should be concerned with the harms caused by assault weapons.

I didn't see that poster do any such thing. Conclusion is you lied.

 

[RF667799]

For the most part, firearm fanatics are arguing a patently unsubstantiated and illogical premise-- that firearms are a net benefit to society, even if ANY disadvantages exist whatsoever.

Like arguing with a Flat Earther, the perception of gun fanatics cannot be changed by fact or reason.

Why aren't you rebutting that premise? Simply marginalizing it doesn't do that.

 

[RF667799]

The truly thoughtful firearm owner recognizes that:
1. firearms must be secured against access by children or those intent on self-harm

What if it's the firearm owner who is intent on self harm?

2. any firearm should be treated as loaded

Makes it difficult to maintain them. What kind of idiot would try to clean a loaded firearm?

3. firearms are inherently dangerous and require special skill to operate to decrease risk

They're actually pretty simple, and decreasing risk of accidental injury is simple as well. Basically, don't point it at anything or anyone you don't want to damage or kill. Try not to be a fumble fingered team killing ****tard.

4. a firearm in a household represents a risk factor for death and injury to visitors or residents of that household regardless of how it is stored

Regardless of how it is stored?!?

You've argued that guns in storage aren't part of your "prevalence" claims that supposedly are part of risk quantification. (Which you never do.)

5. firearms, in particular handguns, are widely distributed in the USA and, consequently, have become the preferred method of homicide

That just means they are a fractional part of an already small number.

 

[jaeger19]

Discuss propaganda related to firearm violence.

The term firearm violence is a great example of gun banner propaganda.
You use “ gun violence” to make people think it’s a measure of their safety. “ oh gosh this area has a lot of gun violence, it’s dangerous.

But as shown it’s not a valid measure of safety.
For one . It consists of half or more suicides .
Second it only looks at firearms and not crime in general.

So Idaho with way more gun violence than ny state is STILL substantially safer.

And you know you are full of crap. Because when you say “ but but suicides are a measure of safety”, I mention if S Korea is a really dangerous place with its high suicide rate and you clam right up

Then there is the propaganda about “ assault weapons”
You call them assault weapons when the rifles you are talking about are in no way mechanically different from grandads browning semi auto.

The list of propaganda you gun banners propagate goes on and on.

“

 

[Maidenrules29]

their loyalty could not be trusted.

I know exactly where many immigrant's loyalties lie. Just look how they fly the flag of the country they fled to be here.

 

[pedex]

For the most part, firearm fanatics are arguing a patently unsubstantiated and illogical premise-- that firearms are a net benefit to society, even if ANY disadvantages exist whatsoever.

Like arguing with a Flat Earther, the perception of gun fanatics cannot be changed by fact or reason.

Part of freedom, democracy, and rights is taking the good with the bad.

 

[jaeger19]

The truly thoughtful firearm owner recognizes that:
1. firearms must be secured against access by children

Depending on age and experience of the child .
As pointed out millions of children go hunting with firearms by themselves no less. Some as young as 10z

or those intent on self-harm

Sure.

2. any firearm should be treated as loaded

Yep

3. firearms are inherently dangerous and require special skill to operate to decrease risk

Not really . “ special skills”???
Firearms are generally quite simple to operate for the most part.
And to operate safely you just have to follow 4 basic rules.
1treat every gun as loaded
2. Never point a firearm at something you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire
4. Be sure if your target and what’s beyond it.

These rules/skills are simple and mastered by children at a relatively early age by most.

Now take something like driving a car?
That requires a ton more special skills.

4. a firearm in a household represents a risk factor for death and injury to visitors or residents of that household regardless of how it is stored

That’s ridiculous. I could put my unloaded Glock on the dining room table surrounded by children at a birthday party and tge worst danger is that it might get knocked off and fall on someone’s foot!!

You silly gun banners.

5. firearms, in particular handguns, are widely distributed in the USA and, consequently, have become the preferred method of homicide

Of course. But they don not cause people to commit suicide and the areas with high gun prevalence often have much lower murder rates tgan areas with low gun prevalence.

 

[jaeger19]

I know exactly where many immigrant's loyalties lie. Just look how they fly the flag of the country they fled to be here.

Yeah those dang Irish on St Patrick’s Day!!!

Oh and those Italians on Columbus Day!!!!

Chicagoans celebrate Italian American heritage at annual Columbus Day Parade: ‘It’s time for everybody to be happy again’

The 71st annual parade honored the late Tony Bennett by naming his daughter, Antonia, as honorary grand marshal.

chicago.suntimes.com

We can’t have that !!!

Where is ICE when you need them. ??!?

 

[jaeger19]

For the most part, firearm fanatics are arguing a patently unsubstantiated and illogical premise-- that firearms are a net benefit to society, even if ANY disadvantages exist whatsoever.

Like arguing with a Flat Earther, the perception of gun fanatics cannot be changed by fact or reason.

No. They are arguing a very very logical premise as firearms are a definite net benefit to society.
Gun banners are the flat earthers of the discussion. That’s why they have to lie so much!!!

 

[Maidenrules29]

Idaho suffers from high firearm violence mortality.

I live in Idaho. Moved here from San Bernardino, CA four years ago. Do you think I should feel more likely or less likely to be murdered now as compared to before?

 

[Maidenrules29]

Yeah those dang Irish on St Patrick’s Day!!!

Oh and those Italians on Columbus Day!!!!

Chicagoans celebrate Italian American heritage at annual Columbus Day Parade: ‘It’s time for everybody to be happy again’

The 71st annual parade honored the late Tony Bennett by naming his daughter, Antonia, as honorary grand marshal.

chicago.suntimes.com

We can’t have that !!!

Where is ICE when you need them. ??!?

Ahhhh....the 'ol "well, one day per year all the cops drag out their Irish flags for St. Patty's day!" trope. There is a big difference between celebrating your heritage one day per year, and flying the flag of the country you fled in order to protest the country you wanted to come to for a better life every chance you get every time something upsets you.

 

[jaeger19]

Ahhhh....the 'ol "well, one day per year all the cops drag out their Irish flags for St. Patty's day!" trope. There is a big difference between celebrating your heritage one day per year, and flying the flag of the country you fled in order to protest the country you wanted to come to for a better life every chance you get every time something upsets you.

They used to fly many times before that when there were riots by Irish immigrants protesting discrimination.
The same with Italians.

 

[Spock]

I live in Idaho. Moved here from San Bernardino, CA four years ago. Do you think I should feel more likely or less likely to be murdered now as compared to before?

Look up definition of firearm violence after class.

 

[Spock]

No. They are arguing a very very logical premise as firearms are a definite net benefit to society.
Gun banners are the flat earthers of the discussion. That’s why they have to lie so much!!!

I am sure that everything that does not align with your prejudices represents a lie.

 

[Spock]

Depending on age and experience of the child .
As pointed out millions of children go hunting with firearms by themselves no less. Some as young as 10z

Sure.

Yep

Not really . “ special skills”???
Firearms are generally quite simple to operate for the most part.
And to operate safely you just have to follow 4 basic rules.
1treat every gun as loaded
2. Never point a firearm at something you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire
4. Be sure if your target and what’s beyond it.

These rules/skills are simple and mastered by children at a relatively early age by most.

Now take something like driving a car?
That requires a ton more special skills.




That’s ridiculous. I could put my unloaded Glock on the dining room table surrounded by children at a birthday party and tge worst danger is that it might get knocked off and fall on someone’s foot!!

You silly gun banners.

Of course. But they don not cause people to commit suicide and the areas with high gun prevalence often have much lower murder rates tgan areas with low gun prevalence.

The fundamental problem with firearm fanatics is that they view their personal judgment and experience (however flawed) as applicable generally to the entire population. By that error, they fail to see the risk in their own lives and that of others.
Generally, whatever can happen with a firearm will happen. Lots of people die yearly from "unloaded" firearms due primarily to arrogance, conceit and sloppiness.

 

[Spock]

Part of freedom, democracy, and rights is taking the good with the bad.

In the case of firearms, the bad far exceeds the measurable good across the board.

 

[RF667799]

The fundamental problem with firearm fanatics is that they view their personal judgment and experience (however flawed) as applicable generally to the entire population. By that error, they fail to see the risk in their own lives and that of others.
Generally, whatever can happen with a firearm will happen. Lots of people die yearly from "unloaded" firearms due primarily to arrogance, conceit and sloppiness.

How many? "Lots" doesn't tell us much.

 

[RF667799]

In the case of firearms, the bad far exceeds the measurable good across the board.

Let's see your calculations.

 

[pedex]

Let's see your calculations.

And a matter of perspective. What's the protection of our govt officials worth?

 

[jaeger19]

The fundamental problem with firearm fanatics is that they view their personal judgment and experience (however flawed) as applicable generally to the entire population.

The fundamental problem with gun banners is they view their personal ignorance and narrow bias as representative of all firearms owners.

The data is clear. Tens of millions of Americans own and use firearms responsibly.
Children as young as 10 hunt by themselves with a firearm

By that error, they fail to see the risk in their own lives and that of others.
Generally, whatever can happen with a firearm will happen. Lots of people die yearly from "unloaded" firearms due primarily to arrogance, conceit and sloppiness.

See above. Whatever “ can happen” ( accidents) with a firearm almost never does.

 

[RF667799]

And a matter of perspective. What's the protection of our govt officials worth?

To be fair, it is usually the private ownership of guns that they oppose. Most of them are quite content to allow governments the means to kill their citizens.

 

[Spock]

The fundamental problem with gun banners is they view their personal ignorance and narrow bias as representative of all firearms owners.

The data is clear. Tens of millions of Americans own and use firearms responsibly.
Children as young as 10 hunt by themselves with a firearm

What does that bit of irrelevance have to do with firearm violence?

See above. Whatever “ can happen” ( accidents) with a firearm almost never does.

Whatever can happen is not confined to accidents.
Do you remember how many people die or get injured yearly and the direct and indirect costs of firearm violence?

 

[Toggle Almendro]

During the assault weapons ban, the legislation was able to define their characteristics adequately.
Rather that trying to equate a semi-automatic weapon with low recoil and high capacity magazine with a single shot 22 rifle, you should be concerned with the harms caused by assault weapons.

No assault weapon that is (or was ever) legally owned by an American civilian has ever been used to commit a crime. As such, the ban on such weapons is unjustified and should be repealed.

 

[RF667799]

What does that bit of irrelevance have to do with firearm violence?

It's not irrelevant. You just wish it was. It is proof that "firearm violence" is only occasionally associated with firearms.

Whatever can happen is not confined to accidents.
Do you remember how many people die or get injured yearly and the direct and indirect costs of firearm violence?

Do you remember how many don't die or get injured yearly? Do you account for the benefits of firearm ownership when you're wringing your hands?

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Discuss propaganda related to firearm violence.

As far as I can see you are the only one who posts propaganda related to firearms violence.