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Can we, right and left, find common ground on the transgender issue?

Your idea denies a century of medical science that gender identity even exists, so no, common ground cannot be found on a very simplistic 6th grade understanding of human sexuality.
No it doesn't a man that identifies as a woman is still a man. That doesn't change because you have a gender identity.
 
Well people say their 4 year olds are trans they are clearly pushing them that way. Not being cautious hurts Democrats.
1.)You're not a Dr or a psychologist and you have zero proof that a child is being pushed by parents or their treatment team to transition because of medical privacy.

2.)People are born trans and some kids know very early that they are in the wrong sex body for their gender identity. You dont have to be 18-21 to come to that conclusion.

3.) This has nothing to do with politics because its purely a medical issue, but you want the democrats to join the GOP in supporting the denial of transition care and gatekeeping.
 
Nah, IMO, I think it's just like many men being so much more freaked out by gay men but less often have issues with lesbians.

Many are terrified of ambiguity of any kind. "It might move" :eek:

Like the fundie Muslim males who believe it's the responsibility of the women to cover up and remove all temptation or ambiguity (like being rejected). So in the US, it's the responsibility of the gay males and trans to make it very very clear so no men ever feel the slightest interest or attraction. :rolleyes: Heaven forbid! Why should they have to manage "their" feelings? More male entitlement.
Yeah let’s just make up some bs excuse rather then admit that it is a scientific fact that males have a rather large biological advantage over females when it comes to most athletic categories.

And pretending it is just males when the vast majority of Americans is rather blatant dishonesty on your part.
 
1.)You're not a Dr or a psychologist and you have zero proof that a child is being pushed by parents or their treatment team to transition because of medical privacy.
I don't have to be a doctor or a psychiatrist to know that if a four-year-old says they're transgender it's because their parents are telling them that they are.
2.)People are born trans and some kids know very early that they are in the wrong sex body for their gender identity.
Don't believe you. They may feel something is wrong but unless they've been introduced to the idea there's no way they know about it.
You dont have to be 18-21 to come to that conclusion.
But if you're 4 the confusion is caused by your parents
3.) This has nothing to do with politics because its purely a medical issue, but you want the democrats to join the GOP in supporting the denial of transition care and gatekeeping.
You should support this too. The entire medical industry is about gatekeeping. Have you ever wondered why you need a prescription to get certain drugs?
 
I don't have to be a doctor or a psychiatrist to know that if a four-year-old says they're transgender it's because their parents are telling them that they are.

Bullshit. You have no proof of that claim. Where did you get a medical or psych degree? Did you even go to college?
Don't believe you. They may feel something is wrong but unless they've been introduced to the idea there's no way they know about it.

That is absolute nonsense. They may not know the trans transgender but they know how they feel and some kids feel safe enough to say it.
But if you're 4 the confusion is caused by your parents

You cannot prove that parents are grooming kids. This is your opinion that you cannot defend. Apologize!
You should support this too. The entire medical industry is about gatekeeping. Have you ever wondered why you need a prescription to get certain drugs?
Gatekeeping effective treatment until 18 is very dangerous. These kids are going to Drs and psychologists for the diagnosis and treatment. They arent getting hormones at the playground.
 
Yeah let’s just make up some bs excuse rather then admit that it is a scientific fact that males have a rather large biological advantage over females when it comes to most athletic categories.

I'm not disagreeing with that at all. I'm just observing that IMO, all of a sudden the rightwing, esp men, are not concerned at all about women's sports and unfairness. It's mostly an excuse IMO, grasping it as an example to camouflage (poorly) their objections. I presented my view.

And pretending it is just males when the vast majority of Americans is rather blatant dishonesty on your part.

The vast majority of Americans what? I'm against transgender in women's sports as the lesser of 2 grave unfairnesses, so please articulate my dishonesty? And then possibly civilly address what I did write?
 
If a woman loses a championship by coming in second, then the Trans woman who won, who, also, just a few months prior, won 5th, in the men's competition, and she (the first woman) worked for years for that win, isn't it fair to say that, though it's only 'one' person, it's 100% of that woman's life. This is an actual example. Gathering from your comment, you are agreeing with this point, right? Or not? What say you?
Even if it is true, that instead of winning a championship, she came in second and we were to grant your premise that the determinative factor was trans status as opposed to a myriad of others contributing as much or more, There are other championships to be had. its not as though trans athletes are populating the sports world, or that those few who do, are truly talented gifted top level dedicated athletes squeezing out everyone else. Professional athletes have competitions every week that they travel around for , every other week, every month, multiple times a years, multiple years.
 
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I'm not disagreeing with that at all. I'm just observing that IMO, all of a sudden the rightwing, esp men, are not concerned at all about women's sports and unfairness. It's mostly an excuse IMO, grasping it as an example to camouflage (poorly) their objections. I presented my view.



The vast majority of Americans what? I'm against transgender in women's sports as the lesser of 2 grave unfairnesses, so please articulate my dishonesty? And then possibly civilly address what I did write?
Yes that is what I am talking about. You are inventing this idea about what the right thinks based on nothing more than your feelings.

The vast majority of Americans are against males playing in female sports.
To pretend like males just have to have ulterior motives and don’t just see the intrinsic unfairness in this is rather sexist on your part.

Yes let’s just lie and pretend like your post was very civil and not demeaning at all.
 
Bullshit. You have no proof of that claim. Where did you get a medical or psych degree? Did you even go to college?
This isn't organic in a 4 year old. A 14 year old maybe.
That is absolute nonsense. They may not know the trans transgender but they know how they feel and some kids feel safe enough to say it.
No they don't have you ever been around a 4 year old they know squat.
You cannot prove that parents are grooming kids. This is your opinion that you cannot defend. Apologize!
No. It's a social construct that a child that age must be coached in in order to identify that way.

I don't do struggle sessions.
Gatekeeping effective treatment until 18 is very dangerous.
Nobody's ever died from not being able to get plastic surgery.
These kids are going to Drs and psychologists for the diagnosis and treatment. They arent getting hormones at the playground.
I'd question the ethics of doctors prescribing this to a child that young.
 
Yes that is what I am talking about.

OK

You are inventing this idea about what the right thinks based on nothing more than your feelings.

I said it was my opinion. I dont care if you like it or not, that's not what discussions are about. Do you have a counterargument or would you rather just get bent out of shape?

The vast majority of Americans are against males playing in female sports.
To pretend like males just have to have ulterior motives and don’t just see the intrinsic unfairness in this is rather sexist on your part.

I gave a legitimate example of fundamantalist Muslim males. I explained a viewpoint. All I see is you typing "na huh". That's not debate and since you cant even articulate why you disagree with me, I disregard it 🤷 Anyone can say "na huh", it doesnt take any thought.

Yes let’s just lie and pretend like your post was very civil and not demeaning at all.

I asked you to tell me where I was dishonest. You did not do so and now say I lied. Quote my lie(s). It certainly was civil and what was demeaning? I didnt say all men. Does it apply to you, is that why you're trying to make this about me instead of the subject?
 
I'm against any encouragement of children to deny their biological sex. I'm also against puberty blockers, etc.
It's funny how 'get a clue and recognize some people, including children, have a brain/body mismatch' so they stop being ignorant about it turns into 'encouragement of children to deny their biological sex' as if 'encouragement is the issue, in order to discriminate against transgender people. It's the same gabage as 'conversion therapy' fo]r gay people.
 
3.) This has nothing to do with politics because its purely a medical issue, but you want the democrats to join the GOP in supporting the denial of transition care and gatekeeping.

The truth of transgenderism has nothing to do with politics, but transgenderism does because it has all kinds of political issues, from encouraging hate, to spreading misinformation, to budgets and policies and many related things.
 
Here's a simple question - Why not just continue to compete against men if they love the sport so much?
It's simple, but not very good. Transgender women seem to fit in the middle between competing with women and competing with men, with some possible advantages with women and possible disadvantages with men. But they are so few in number as to make 'their own sporting events' impractical. It's not a "simple" topic, which helps make it exploited for bigotry by oligarch interests.
 
OK



I said it was my opinion. I dont care if you like it or not, that's not what discussions are about. Do you have a counterargument or would you rather just get bent out of shape?



I gave a legitimate example of fundamantalist Muslim males. I explained a viewpoint. All I see is you typing "na huh". That's not debate and since you cant even articulate why you disagree with me, I disregard it 🤷 Anyone can say "na huh", it doesnt take any thought.



I asked you to tell me where I was dishonest. You did not do so and now say I lied. Quote my lie(s). It certainly was civil and what was demeaning? I didnt say all men. Does it apply to you, is that why you're trying to make this about me instead of the subject?
And I am telling you your opinion is nonsense and comes from your sexist views.
And I have stated why your argument is crap in the first post i quoted you in. No need to lie and pretend i didn’t.
But I see that is what you are going to keep doing.

You are lying and trying to pretend your post was civil. It wasn’t. And deep down you know it. It was insulting and demeaning.
 
And I am telling you your opinion is nonsense and comes from your sexist views.
More "na huh"

And I have stated why your argument is crap in the first post i quoted you in. No need to lie and pretend i didn’t.

You did not, you are lying not me. Calling it "crap" is merely more "na huh." So...again you cannot debate.

But I see that is what you are going to keep doing.

I cant debate if you only post "na huh" so what else would you like?

You are lying and trying to pretend your post was civil. It wasn’t. And deep down you know it. It was insulting and demeaning.

Quote my lies? How many times do I need to ask? You know you'd prove me wrong if you could. So...you seem to be the one needing to lie instead of just debating.

Off you go then if you cant directly address what I wrote in my original post 149. 🤷 It is there for anyone to consider.
 
More "na huh"



You did not, you are lying not me. Calling it "crap" is merely more "na huh." So...again you cannot debate.



I cant debate if you only post "na huh" so what else would you like?



Quote my lies? How many times do I need to ask? You know you'd prove me wrong if you could. So...you seem to be the one needing to lie instead of just debating.

Off you go then if you cant directly address what I wrote in my original post 149. 🤷 It is there for anyone to consider.
Yes I did. You not liking my reasoning does not mean I didn’t tell it to you.

I explained why it was crap. Why lie about it.

When you tried to pretend your post was civil that was you lying.


I already addressed it. And you know it.
 
It's simple, but not very good. Transgender women seem to fit in the middle between competing with women and competing with men, with some possible advantages with women and possible disadvantages with men. But they are so few in number as to make 'their own sporting events' impractical. It's not a "simple" topic, which helps make it exploited for bigotry by oligarch interests.

And most of "the few in number" don't dominate the sport.
 
Because it is unfair to girls and you'll never be rid of TRUMP with these extremist views.

Are these girls in the room with you right now?

The trans girl involved in the recent CA story had competed for years without a problem. None of her competitors complained when she won.

It wasn't until right-wing pressure groups got involved that it became a problem.

If you're going fo speak for women, perhaps you should listen to them first.
 
Because it is unfair to girls and you'll never be rid of TRUMP with these extremist views.
How is unfair for girls to compete against girls?

And, for that matter, why would it be unfair for girls to compete against non girls? How would that be unfair?

Didn't you watch The Queen's Gambit?
 
Are these girls in the room with you right now?

The trans girl involved in the recent CA story had competed for years without a problem. None of her competitors complained when she won.

It wasn't until right-wing pressure groups got involved that it became a problem.

If you're going fo speak for women, perhaps you should listen to them first.

You need to make an argument without using a fallacy.
Can you?
 
How is unfair for girls to compete against girls?

And, for that matter, why would it be unfair for girls to compete against non girls? How would that be unfair?

Do you know nothing of Title IX or why it came about?

Don't you want Trump and MAGA out of American leadership?

These extemist views are killing, killing the Dems. They allow Trump to laugh all the way to the polls.
 
Your idea denies a century of medical science that gender identity even exists, so no, common ground cannot be found on a very simplistic 6th grade understanding of human sexuality.
Just because someone can verbally claim they are a different sex or a cat or a dog or a gorilla or a plant doesn't make it so.
 
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