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Can we, right and left, find common ground on the transgender issue?

Buster Icon

Banned
Joined
Mar 13, 2025
Messages
254
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285
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
As a liberal, I support the dignity and rights of trans individuals. But I also believe conservatives raise a fair point when they argue that biological males--especially those who haven’t fully transitioned--should not compete in women’s sports or use women’s intimate facilities without some reasonable framework in place. What I reject is the cruelty of how many on the right frame it--by calling trans women “men” and denying their identity entirely.

This isn’t about erasing anyone. It’s about designing fair, respectful systems that reflect reality.

On Sports:​


Sex matters in sports. Strength, speed, and stamina are not equally distributed after puberty. That’s why we have sex-separated sports to begin with. Simply identifying as female doesn’t negate the biological advantages that linger--even after hormone therapy. So we must address this without hostility.
  • I support a tiered or handicap-style system--as suggested by Keith Olbermann--for events like track and field, where performance gaps can be measured and adjusted for.
  • In contact or power sports, eligibility should be tied to hormone suppression duration and athletic benchmarks, not just self-identification.
  • Let’s also explore “Open” or invitational categories, not to marginalize--but to include--without compromising the integrity of women’s competition.

Fairness to female athletes matters. So does inclusion. We can uphold both.

On Facilities:​


Women’s restrooms and locker rooms are about vulnerability, not just plumbing. It’s reasonable for women to want privacy and safety in those spaces. At the same time, not every trans woman is post-operative, and not every situation is simple.
  • Post-op trans women--and those who have completed a full social and medical transition--should be treated as women in public life, including facilities.
  • Pre-op trans women, especially those early in transition, must understand that some boundaries exist for a reason--and dignity goes both ways.
  • Let’s build more unisex or single-stall options, and establish behavior-based guidelines: no disrobing in shared open spaces, no forcing discomfort on others.
No one is calling for “genital checks”--that’s a right-wing scare tactic. But neither should we ignore women’s valid concerns in the name of abstract ideology.

On Process:​

Policy should not be imposed top-down. Let women themselves--cis and trans--lead the discussion on what boundaries make sense in shared spaces. Respect begins with listening.

In Summary:​


Trans women are not “men.” But biology is real. And when identity and biology intersect--in sports, in locker rooms, in prisons--we need thoughtful, humane policy that acknowledges both.

This isn’t about erasure. It’s about design. It’s about fairness. It’s about respect—for all.
 
As a liberal, I support the dignity and rights of trans individuals. But I also believe conservatives raise a fair point when they argue that biological males--especially those who haven’t fully transitioned--should not compete in women’s sports or use women’s intimate facilities without some reasonable framework in place. What I reject is the cruelty of how many on the right frame it--by calling trans women “men” and denying their identity entirely.

This isn’t about erasing anyone. It’s about designing fair, respectful systems that reflect reality.

On Sports:​


Sex matters in sports. Strength, speed, and stamina are not equally distributed after puberty. That’s why we have sex-separated sports to begin with. Simply identifying as female doesn’t negate the biological advantages that linger--even after hormone therapy. So we must address this without hostility.
  • I support a tiered or handicap-style system--as suggested by Keith Olbermann--for events like track and field, where performance gaps can be measured and adjusted for.
  • In contact or power sports, eligibility should be tied to hormone suppression duration and athletic benchmarks, not just self-identification.
  • Let’s also explore “Open” or invitational categories, not to marginalize--but to include--without compromising the integrity of women’s competition.

Fairness to female athletes matters. So does inclusion. We can uphold both.

On Facilities:​


Women’s restrooms and locker rooms are about vulnerability, not just plumbing. It’s reasonable for women to want privacy and safety in those spaces. At the same time, not every trans woman is post-operative, and not every situation is simple.
  • Post-op trans women--and those who have completed a full social and medical transition--should be treated as women in public life, including facilities.
  • Pre-op trans women, especially those early in transition, must understand that some boundaries exist for a reason--and dignity goes both ways.
  • Let’s build more unisex or single-stall options, and establish behavior-based guidelines: no disrobing in shared open spaces, no forcing discomfort on others.
No one is calling for “genital checks”--that’s a right-wing scare tactic. But neither should we ignore women’s valid concerns in the name of abstract ideology.

On Process:​

Policy should not be imposed top-down. Let women themselves--cis and trans--lead the discussion on what boundaries make sense in shared spaces. Respect begins with listening.

In Summary:​


Trans women are not “men.” But biology is real. And when identity and biology intersect--in sports, in locker rooms, in prisons--we need thoughtful, humane policy that acknowledges both.

This isn’t about erasure. It’s about design. It’s about fairness. It’s about respect—for all.
Have you never discussed this topic on a forum before? A quick search on DP will direct you to thousands of posts.

 
As a liberal, I support the dignity and rights of trans individuals. But I also believe conservatives raise a fair point when they argue that biological males--especially those who haven’t fully transitioned--should not compete in women’s sports or use women’s intimate facilities without some reasonable framework in place. What I reject is the cruelty of how many on the right frame it--by calling trans women “men” and denying their identity entirely.

This isn’t about erasing anyone. It’s about designing fair, respectful systems that reflect reality.

On Sports:​


Sex matters in sports. Strength, speed, and stamina are not equally distributed after puberty. That’s why we have sex-separated sports to begin with. Simply identifying as female doesn’t negate the biological advantages that linger--even after hormone therapy. So we must address this without hostility.
  • I support a tiered or handicap-style system--as suggested by Keith Olbermann--for events like track and field, where performance gaps can be measured and adjusted for.
  • In contact or power sports, eligibility should be tied to hormone suppression duration and athletic benchmarks, not just self-identification.
  • Let’s also explore “Open” or invitational categories, not to marginalize--but to include--without compromising the integrity of women’s competition.

Fairness to female athletes matters. So does inclusion. We can uphold both.

On Facilities:​


Women’s restrooms and locker rooms are about vulnerability, not just plumbing. It’s reasonable for women to want privacy and safety in those spaces. At the same time, not every trans woman is post-operative, and not every situation is simple.
  • Post-op trans women--and those who have completed a full social and medical transition--should be treated as women in public life, including facilities.
  • Pre-op trans women, especially those early in transition, must understand that some boundaries exist for a reason--and dignity goes both ways.
  • Let’s build more unisex or single-stall options, and establish behavior-based guidelines: no disrobing in shared open spaces, no forcing discomfort on others.
No one is calling for “genital checks”--that’s a right-wing scare tactic. But neither should we ignore women’s valid concerns in the name of abstract ideology.

On Process:​

Policy should not be imposed top-down. Let women themselves--cis and trans--lead the discussion on what boundaries make sense in shared spaces. Respect begins with listening.

In Summary:​


Trans women are not “men.” But biology is real. And when identity and biology intersect--in sports, in locker rooms, in prisons--we need thoughtful, humane policy that acknowledges both.

This isn’t about erasure. It’s about design. It’s about fairness. It’s about respect—for all.
I appreciate the effort you went to in writing that post but if you want to talk about this then let’s just rip the bandaid off. Should we continue doing sex segregated sports and facilities or not? If the answer is yes then the trans should not be slotted on the basis of the shifting sands of psychological identity. There is no need to make it more complicated than that.
 
I appreciate the effort you went to in writing that post but if you want to talk about this then let’s just rip the bandaid off. Should we continue doing sex segregated sports and facilities or not? If the answer is yes then the trans should not be slotted on the basis of the shifting sands of psychological identity. There is no need to make it more complicated than that.
ok. Got anything new?
 
Fairness to female athletes matters. So does inclusion. We can uphold both.
Bullshit.
Keep the damn trans in their own sex sport.
Enough with this " in my head I am a women" shit for sport.
Just stop it

I have had it.

Enough is Enough
 
As a liberal, I support the dignity and rights of trans individuals. But I also believe conservatives raise a fair point when they argue that biological males--especially those who haven’t fully transitioned--should not compete in women’s sports or use women’s intimate facilities without some reasonable framework in place. What I reject is the cruelty of how many on the right frame it--by calling trans women “men” and denying their identity entirely.

This isn’t about erasing anyone. It’s about designing fair, respectful systems that reflect reality.

On Sports:​


Sex matters in sports. Strength, speed, and stamina are not equally distributed after puberty. That’s why we have sex-separated sports to begin with. Simply identifying as female doesn’t negate the biological advantages that linger--even after hormone therapy. So we must address this without hostility.
  • I support a tiered or handicap-style system--as suggested by Keith Olbermann--for events like track and field, where performance gaps can be measured and adjusted for.
  • In contact or power sports, eligibility should be tied to hormone suppression duration and athletic benchmarks, not just self-identification.
  • Let’s also explore “Open” or invitational categories, not to marginalize--but to include--without compromising the integrity of women’s competition.

Fairness to female athletes matters. So does inclusion. We can uphold both.

On Facilities:​


Women’s restrooms and locker rooms are about vulnerability, not just plumbing. It’s reasonable for women to want privacy and safety in those spaces. At the same time, not every trans woman is post-operative, and not every situation is simple.
  • Post-op trans women--and those who have completed a full social and medical transition--should be treated as women in public life, including facilities.
  • Pre-op trans women, especially those early in transition, must understand that some boundaries exist for a reason--and dignity goes both ways.
  • Let’s build more unisex or single-stall options, and establish behavior-based guidelines: no disrobing in shared open spaces, no forcing discomfort on others.
No one is calling for “genital checks”--that’s a right-wing scare tactic. But neither should we ignore women’s valid concerns in the name of abstract ideology.

On Process:​

Policy should not be imposed top-down. Let women themselves--cis and trans--lead the discussion on what boundaries make sense in shared spaces. Respect begins with listening.

In Summary:​


Trans women are not “men.” But biology is real. And when identity and biology intersect--in sports, in locker rooms, in prisons--we need thoughtful, humane policy that acknowledges both.

This isn’t about erasure. It’s about design. It’s about fairness. It’s about respect—for all.
We can agree this is a giant distraction induced by MAGA. Its really a series of individual anecdotes that are showcased by media. The percentage of Trans 'sports' figures impacting anything is miniscule by any measure. Its not worth the oxygen it absorbs in political discourse. In other words, this is a very small relatively insignificant gordian knot that we needn't bother with. Its just a tool to create melodrama and division.

Gordian knots are very good at occupying a lot of time, to accomplish incredibly little. Even if we 'resolve' it ,MAGA will just come up with another transgender gordian knot.
 
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Let's see.

The right wing view is that they are liars who pretend to be the other sex so that they can molest children in bathrooms and/or win womens sports. There is seeming uniformity in the belief that they should not exist in public spaces or even at all amongst the MAGAs.

The left wing view is that they're suffering from the most severe forms of gender dysphoria and transitioning is a last ditch effort to make life at least palatable enough that suicide is not the final result. There is some difference on whether they should be allowed to participate in womens' sports, generally centered around the question of the extent to which going through puberty as a male conveys lasting advantages that would not otherwise be had.

The problem with that line of reasoning is that it doesn't really make sense unless one accepts the right's false view that it's a choice. It isn't a choice. And if it isn't a choice, then what really is the difference between it and being very tall while still agile? And being able to jump really high? After all, we're all dealt different genetic cards and those who excel in sports do so not only because of hard work but because of the genetic cards they were dealt; they had no choice in those cards. Is transitioning to prevent suicide due to an incurable mental condition any different, ultimately?

There is one involuntary trait which will result in exclusion, and that's excessively high testosterone production in biological females. For those, test blockers are generally required (which transgender M-->F take). And once they get their test down, they're allowed to compete, even though they went through puberty as a female with excessively high testosterone and thus obtained some of these 'advantages', albeit not to the same extent.
 
As a liberal, I support the dignity and rights of trans individuals. But I also believe conservatives raise a fair point when they argue that biological males--especially those who haven’t fully transitioned--should not compete in women’s sports or use women’s intimate facilities without some reasonable framework in place. What I reject is the cruelty of how many on the right frame it--by calling trans women “men” and denying their identity entirely.

This isn’t about erasing anyone. It’s about designing fair, respectful systems that reflect reality.

On Sports:​


Sex matters in sports. Strength, speed, and stamina are not equally distributed after puberty. That’s why we have sex-separated sports to begin with. Simply identifying as female doesn’t negate the biological advantages that linger--even after hormone therapy. So we must address this without hostility.
  • I support a tiered or handicap-style system--as suggested by Keith Olbermann--for events like track and field, where performance gaps can be measured and adjusted for.
  • In contact or power sports, eligibility should be tied to hormone suppression duration and athletic benchmarks, not just self-identification.
  • Let’s also explore “Open” or invitational categories, not to marginalize--but to include--without compromising the integrity of women’s competition.

Fairness to female athletes matters. So does inclusion. We can uphold both.

On Facilities:​


Women’s restrooms and locker rooms are about vulnerability, not just plumbing. It’s reasonable for women to want privacy and safety in those spaces. At the same time, not every trans woman is post-operative, and not every situation is simple.
  • Post-op trans women--and those who have completed a full social and medical transition--should be treated as women in public life, including facilities.
  • Pre-op trans women, especially those early in transition, must understand that some boundaries exist for a reason--and dignity goes both ways.
  • Let’s build more unisex or single-stall options, and establish behavior-based guidelines: no disrobing in shared open spaces, no forcing discomfort on others.
No one is calling for “genital checks”--that’s a right-wing scare tactic. But neither should we ignore women’s valid concerns in the name of abstract ideology.

On Process:​

Policy should not be imposed top-down. Let women themselves--cis and trans--lead the discussion on what boundaries make sense in shared spaces. Respect begins with listening.

In Summary:​


Trans women are not “men.” But biology is real. And when identity and biology intersect--in sports, in locker rooms, in prisons--we need thoughtful, humane policy that acknowledges both.

This isn’t about erasure. It’s about design. It’s about fairness. It’s about respect—for all.
Extremely doubtful.

But nice try.

Basically, the right is dominated by a lack of compassion for trans people. That makes any kind of compromise impossible.

Besides. It's a huge wedge issue. That means anti-trans is a vote-getter for the right. The right wing propaganda machine uses it to inflame emotions and get the hatred vote from the insecure.

The idea of a compromise is admirable but it's DOA.

No right wing macho male wants his son to get the idea it is OK to become a female. He would rather see his family ripped apart before accepting that. He would rather see the nation torn asunder by voting for a seriously messed up flaming asshole criminal before he would accept that. Anything that might encourage any doubt on the issue is not going to be accepted by insecure right wing macho males. And there are simply too many of them. It's DOA.
 
As a liberal, I support the dignity and rights of trans individuals. But I also believe conservatives raise a fair point when they argue that biological males--especially those who haven’t fully transitioned--should not compete in women’s sports or use women’s intimate facilities without some reasonable framework in place. What I reject is the cruelty of how many on the right frame it--by calling trans women “men” and denying their identity entirely.

This isn’t about erasing anyone. It’s about designing fair, respectful systems that reflect reality.

On Sports:​


Sex matters in sports. Strength, speed, and stamina are not equally distributed after puberty. That’s why we have sex-separated sports to begin with. Simply identifying as female doesn’t negate the biological advantages that linger--even after hormone therapy. So we must address this without hostility.
  • I support a tiered or handicap-style system--as suggested by Keith Olbermann--for events like track and field, where performance gaps can be measured and adjusted for.
  • In contact or power sports, eligibility should be tied to hormone suppression duration and athletic benchmarks, not just self-identification.
  • Let’s also explore “Open” or invitational categories, not to marginalize--but to include--without compromising the integrity of women’s competition.

Fairness to female athletes matters. So does inclusion. We can uphold both.

On Facilities:​


Women’s restrooms and locker rooms are about vulnerability, not just plumbing. It’s reasonable for women to want privacy and safety in those spaces. At the same time, not every trans woman is post-operative, and not every situation is simple.
  • Post-op trans women--and those who have completed a full social and medical transition--should be treated as women in public life, including facilities.
  • Pre-op trans women, especially those early in transition, must understand that some boundaries exist for a reason--and dignity goes both ways.
  • Let’s build more unisex or single-stall options, and establish behavior-based guidelines: no disrobing in shared open spaces, no forcing discomfort on others.
No one is calling for “genital checks”--that’s a right-wing scare tactic. But neither should we ignore women’s valid concerns in the name of abstract ideology.

On Process:​

Policy should not be imposed top-down. Let women themselves--cis and trans--lead the discussion on what boundaries make sense in shared spaces. Respect begins with listening.

In Summary:​


Trans women are not “men.” But biology is real. And when identity and biology intersect--in sports, in locker rooms, in prisons--we need thoughtful, humane policy that acknowledges both.

This isn’t about erasure. It’s about design. It’s about fairness. It’s about respect—for all.
I find it hilarious that the side who claims they believe in science and facts refuses to accept the science and the facts that a man is a man and a woman is a woman. The common ground is the fact that a man is a man and a woman is a woman. That's the common ground.
 
I find it hilarious that the side who claims they believe in science and facts refuses to accept the science and the facts that a man is a man and a woman is a woman.
I find it hilarious how ignorant this post is.
Very MAGA.

Ever hear of the Dunning–Kruger effect?
 
I find it hilarious that the side who claims they believe in science and facts refuses to accept the science and the facts that a man is a man and a woman is a woman. The common ground is the fact that a man is a man and a woman is a woman. That's the common ground.
And this post is exhibit one on why we should not waste a moment's sweat on the issue of Trans sports participation. Its a nothingburger either way. Nobody will be happy we solved it. Nobody wants is solved.
 
I find it hilarious that the side who claims they believe in science and facts refuses to accept the science and the facts that a man is a man and a woman is a woman. The common ground is the fact that a man is a man and a woman is a woman. That's the common ground.

Transgenders have been participating in girls sports for years without a problem. No reason why it should be one now.
 
As a liberal, I support the dignity and rights of trans individuals. But I also believe conservatives raise a fair point when they argue that biological males--especially those who haven’t fully transitioned--should not compete in women’s sports or use women’s intimate facilities without some reasonable framework in place. What I reject is the cruelty of how many on the right frame it--by calling trans women “men” and denying their identity entirely.

This isn’t about erasing anyone. It’s about designing fair, respectful systems that reflect reality.

On Sports:​


Sex matters in sports. Strength, speed, and stamina are not equally distributed after puberty. That’s why we have sex-separated sports to begin with. Simply identifying as female doesn’t negate the biological advantages that linger--even after hormone therapy. So we must address this without hostility.
  • I support a tiered or handicap-style system--as suggested by Keith Olbermann--for events like track and field, where performance gaps can be measured and adjusted for.
  • In contact or power sports, eligibility should be tied to hormone suppression duration and athletic benchmarks, not just self-identification.
  • Let’s also explore “Open” or invitational categories, not to marginalize--but to include--without compromising the integrity of women’s competition.

Fairness to female athletes matters. So does inclusion. We can uphold both.

On Facilities:​


Women’s restrooms and locker rooms are about vulnerability, not just plumbing. It’s reasonable for women to want privacy and safety in those spaces. At the same time, not every trans woman is post-operative, and not every situation is simple.
  • Post-op trans women--and those who have completed a full social and medical transition--should be treated as women in public life, including facilities.
  • Pre-op trans women, especially those early in transition, must understand that some boundaries exist for a reason--and dignity goes both ways.
  • Let’s build more unisex or single-stall options, and establish behavior-based guidelines: no disrobing in shared open spaces, no forcing discomfort on others.
No one is calling for “genital checks”--that’s a right-wing scare tactic. But neither should we ignore women’s valid concerns in the name of abstract ideology.

On Process:​

Policy should not be imposed top-down. Let women themselves--cis and trans--lead the discussion on what boundaries make sense in shared spaces. Respect begins with listening.

In Summary:​


Trans women are not “men.” But biology is real. And when identity and biology intersect--in sports, in locker rooms, in prisons--we need thoughtful, humane policy that acknowledges both.

This isn’t about erasure. It’s about design. It’s about fairness. It’s about respect—for all.

There is no middle ground that can be found between “trans people should have equal rights” and “trans people shouldn’t exist and are mentally ill”.
 
Bullshit.
Keep the damn trans in their own sex sport.
Enough with this " in my head I am a women" shit for sport.
Just stop it

I have had it.

Enough is Enough

What about transwoman who haven't went through male puberty due to puberty blockers?
 
I find it hilarious that the side who claims they believe in science and facts refuses to accept the science and the facts that a man is a man and a woman is a woman. The common ground is the fact that a man is a man and a woman is a woman. That's the common ground.

The right tried to say that, and some still do, about sexual orientation. "It's all in their minds" or "it's a choice" or "they just want to have that kind of sex."

Remember? You dont have to look too far, many fundie Christians still think that way. So based on the argument you presented...what's different?
 
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As a liberal, I support the dignity and rights of trans individuals. But I also believe conservatives raise a fair point when they argue that biological males--especially those who haven’t fully transitioned--should not compete in women’s sports or use women’s intimate facilities without some reasonable framework in place. What I reject is the cruelty of how many on the right frame it--by calling trans women “men” and denying their identity entirely.

This isn’t about erasing anyone. It’s about designing fair, respectful systems that reflect reality.

On Sports:​


Sex matters in sports. Strength, speed, and stamina are not equally distributed after puberty. That’s why we have sex-separated sports to begin with. Simply identifying as female doesn’t negate the biological advantages that linger--even after hormone therapy. So we must address this without hostility.
  • I support a tiered or handicap-style system--as suggested by Keith Olbermann--for events like track and field, where performance gaps can be measured and adjusted for.
  • In contact or power sports, eligibility should be tied to hormone suppression duration and athletic benchmarks, not just self-identification.
  • Let’s also explore “Open” or invitational categories, not to marginalize--but to include--without compromising the integrity of women’s competition.

Fairness to female athletes matters. So does inclusion. We can uphold both.

On Facilities:​


Women’s restrooms and locker rooms are about vulnerability, not just plumbing. It’s reasonable for women to want privacy and safety in those spaces. At the same time, not every trans woman is post-operative, and not every situation is simple.
  • Post-op trans women--and those who have completed a full social and medical transition--should be treated as women in public life, including facilities.
  • Pre-op trans women, especially those early in transition, must understand that some boundaries exist for a reason--and dignity goes both ways.
  • Let’s build more unisex or single-stall options, and establish behavior-based guidelines: no disrobing in shared open spaces, no forcing discomfort on others.
No one is calling for “genital checks”--that’s a right-wing scare tactic. But neither should we ignore women’s valid concerns in the name of abstract ideology.

On Process:​

Policy should not be imposed top-down. Let women themselves--cis and trans--lead the discussion on what boundaries make sense in shared spaces. Respect begins with listening.

In Summary:​


Trans women are not “men.” But biology is real. And when identity and biology intersect--in sports, in locker rooms, in prisons--we need thoughtful, humane policy that acknowledges both.

This isn’t about erasure. It’s about design. It’s about fairness. It’s about respect—for all.
Don't seem able to find common ground on ANY issue.
 
I never cared about high school womens swimming competitions before and I'm not going to pretend I care about them now.

And much more importantly, I'm not going to pretend conservatives care about them now. Their goal is not fairness in sports. Their goal is to attack transgender people.
 
I never cared about high school womens swimming competitions before and I'm not going to pretend I care about them now.

And much more importantly, I'm not going to pretend conservatives care about them now. Their goal is not fairness in sports. Their goal is to attack transgender people.

I never cared about youth boxing before, therefore I'm not going to care if Mike Tyson wants to box a 14 year old kid?

You can not care about something and then start caring about a particular aspect that you come across. I never cared about Ukraine until Russia invaded.
 
Bullshit.
Keep the damn trans in their own sex sport.
Enough with this " in my head I am a women" shit for sport.
Just stop it

I have had it.

Enough is Enough


LOL
 
Trans rights are right where gay rights were a few decades ago. The arguments and tactics from the anti-gay side have made only the slightest of shifts, other than they have a new target.

Homophobia to transphobia.webp
 
I never cared about youth boxing before, therefore I'm not going to care if Mike Tyson wants to box a 14 year old kid?
They’d only start caring if Mike Tyson beat the shit out of their own daughter. Maybe not even then. There is no greater mysogany than men wearing the female sex as a costume and their sycophants demanding affirmation.
 
I’m so incredibly tired of this topic.

There are a very small number of individuals that even CLAIM to be trans.

Leave them alone.

This is not any sort of pressing national issue.

And it gets a ridiculously disproportionate amount of attention.


It’s the ultimate “look over here” from the right wing bullshit chamber where the rich and powerful use it to divide.
 
There is no middle ground that can be found between “trans people should have equal rights” and “trans people shouldn’t exist and are mentally ill”.
Trans people already have equal rights. Males play in male sports and females in female sports.
 
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