Can We Have An Honest Discussion About Administrations?

[Moderate Right]

You seem to be equating what Lynch did, to what Barr is doing.

Lynch did not get a special report, and only release a letter. Comey decided to not recommend more actions, which I admit was a bit controversial, but I saw it more as some one of privilege (Clinton) getting special treatment, or certainly treatment a "common" person would not have received.

The AG (Top Cop) usually plays is straight. The last time I can recall where a POTUS acted like the AG was his personal attorney, was Nixon. He kept firing the AG who would not do what he wanted.

Trump came close to that for his constant blasting of Sessions....which eventually caused him to resign. Barr basically auditioned for the job. And got it.
One must remember, that Barr supported HW Bush's decision that pardoned 6 people involved in the Iran Contra scandal, which was also controversial.

So although the 2 situations are somewhat similar, I think it is a bit of false equivalency.

I think Holder, not prosecuting any of the bankers after the financial collapse, was more damning that what Lynch did.

The fact is, there is a deep state for every administration, particularly with the eight year ones. It wasn't as pronounced many years ago when there wasn't as much partisanship and gridlock, with both sides now being obstructionists and the resistance when the other party is in power. The left would have you believe this is all due to Trump but if Ted Cruz would have won the nomination the very same thing would have happened, total resistance and obstructionism. Of course losing to Trump was very humiliating and the left just can't get past it.

In any event, I'm trying to point out we have a problem here that has slapped us in the face and warned us that it needs fixing. And I'm not talking about some partisan crap about forcing the release of the entire Mueller report, I'm saying we have a problem here now two administrations in a row with two different parties that begs attention. I'm asking about ideas for the future and of course the left just want to talk about Mueller, Trump, and Barr - as if they are the problem, not the system itself.

 

[Cramer]

The fact is, there is a deep state for every administration, particularly with the eight year ones. It wasn't as pronounced many years ago when there wasn't as much partisanship and gridlock, with both sides now being obstructionists and the resistance when the other party is in power. The left would have you believe this is all due to Trump but if Ted Cruz would have won the nomination the very same thing would have happened, total resistance and obstructionism. Of course losing to Trump was very humiliating and the left just can't get past it.

In any event, I'm trying to point out we have a problem here that has slapped us in the face and warned us that it needs fixing. And I'm not talking about some partisan crap about forcing the release of the entire Mueller report, I'm saying we have a problem here now two administrations in a row with two different parties that begs attention. I'm asking about ideas for the future and of course the left just want to talk about Mueller, Trump, and Barr - as if they are the problem, not the system itself.

Again, you are equating the 2 administrations, which is simply not accurate.
That is not my bias, that is basic facts.

There is no "deep state". At least not how it is being asserted by those on the right.

There is, bureaucracy, that can be frustrating...but the majority of the government's functions are done by career employees, who belong to both parties and ideologies.

Corruption within the system is the problem, and has been laid out for you extensively in this thread.

IOW, you entire premise is basically a straw man.

 

[Moderate Right]

What do you think is the remedy?

What you are complaining about is the Constitution. The processes in place have been going on since its inception. The POTUS picks his cabinet.

It has worked very well overall. Only when a hyper partisan, and/or unqualified person is POTUS has there been an issue.

What is you solution? Should we create a new independent department? Who creates it? A current admin.? Or an independent council?

Maybe..just maybe, we just need to clean up the corrupt system, and as voters, we need to vote for people with integrity and qualifications, not those with the influence and money.

Now, if one has influence and money, integrity and are qualified....that is fine. And has happen many times in our history.

TR and FDR come to mind.

You are in liberal fantasy land. How do you want to clean up the corrupt system? Who are we going to vote for with honesty and integrity? Bernie? AOC? Bernie the multimillionaire and AOC who did funny business with her campaign? And we have over 400 congresspersons and 100 Senators, not to mention governorships, state legislatures, and all of the appointments to positions from the presidency on down. Which candidates for all these positions do we vote for that isn't influenced by money? Those backed by George Soros or Michael Moore? In case you haven't noticed, every choice we have to vote for is influenced by money, including Hollywood. Now we're back to Democrats good, Republicans bad. Obama appointed Loretta Lynch who meets Hillary's husband secretly on an airport tarmac just before the FBI releases their report regarding the Hillary email investigation.

 

[Moderate Right]

Again, you are equating the 2 administrations, which is simply not accurate.
That is not my bias, that is basic facts.

There is no "deep state". At least not how it is being asserted by those on the right.

There is, bureaucracy, that can be frustrating...but the majority of the government's functions are done by career employees, who belong to both parties and ideologies.

Corruption within the system is the problem, and has been laid out for you extensively in this thread.

IOW, you entire premise is basically a straw man.

If there is no such thing as a deep state then you should be taking Barr's word for everything. No need to release Mueller's whole report. And, he doesn't legally have to.

 

[NWRatCon]

There are a number of agencies and departments that Congress has tried to insulate from partisan influence. The FCC, for example, the Fed, the FBI, the FEC - nearly all the commissions. What we have learned, though, is that extreme partisans, with a complete lack of integrity, will make every effort to sabotage those arrangements to get their way. Thus, presidents have refused to appoint members, or placed unqualified ideologues in positions of power to destroy the very departments they head. Every Republican President from Reagan to Trump has done so - Starting with James Watt, all the appointments of lobbyists of the Bush era, and now, virtually every Trump appointment is an antagonist of the Department they head (or an unqualified Boob. I'm looking at you, Ben Carson). Three had to leave to avoid prosecution for corruption or self-dealing. Teapot Dome seems quaint by comparison.

I appreciate the concern, Moderate Right, but your arguments have been based from the outset on false equivalence that has detracted from your point. At the same time, most safeguards that might be put in place come with their own problems. Federal judges are appointed for life, and serve, sometimes well beyond their competency. Bad eggs get in and are nearly impossible to remove. Consider Thomas, Alito, and Kavanaugh. None should be on the bench, and yet, here they are. For life.

 

[Cramer]

You are in liberal fantasy land. How do you want to clean up the corrupt system? Who are we going to vote for with honesty and integrity? Bernie? AOC? Bernie the multimillionaire and AOC who did funny business with her campaign? And we have over 400 congresspersons and 100 Senators, not to mention governorships, state legislatures, and all of the appointments to positions from the presidency on down. Which candidates for all these positions do we vote for that isn't influenced by money? Those backed by George Soros or Michael Moore? In case you haven't noticed, every choice we have to vote for is influenced by money, including Hollywood. Now we're back to Democrats good, Republicans bad. Obama appointed Loretta Lynch who meets Hillary's husband secretly on an airport tarmac just before the FBI releases their report regarding the Hillary email investigation.

YOu have moments of being reasonable, and here you sound like a rabid right winger who gets his news strictly from Breitbart and FOX, even though you claim you do not.

Bernie a MultiMillionaire? Where do you get that? He recently made some decent coin by selling a book......in 2016/2017. Prior to that, he was making 170k as a congress critter, good pay, but not rich.

I have repeatedly blamed the corruption. It can never be eliminated, but we can do so much better than we are today. Laws can be passed, systems and procedures can be adopted.

It will be very hard, but if enough of us stop playing these stupid partisan games (which YOU are doing)...we will just keep fighting.

Sometimes, the solution may appear to be "liberal", but if it works...why would you not want to implement it?

 

[Cramer]

If there is no such thing as a deep state then you should be taking Barr's word for everything. No need to release Mueller's whole report. And, he doesn't legally have to.

Deep state does not equate to being partisan.

Not releasing the report would be partisan, undemocratic, and lacking transparency.

Is practicing the democratic process, and being transparent, too liberal for you to support?

 

[NWRatCon]

Deep state does not equate to being partisan.

Not releasing the report would be partisan, undemocratic, and lacking transparency.

Is practicing the democratic process, and being transparent, too liberal for you to support?

I have an idea: how about we strip off the partisan veneer and look at the point the OP is trying to address? Is there a better way to make appointments, or structure departments to limit partisan manipulation? And, what might the benefits or hazards of such solutions be?

 

[Moderate Right]

YOu have moments of being reasonable, and here you sound like a rabid right winger who gets his news strictly from Breitbart and FOX, even though you claim you do not.

Bernie a MultiMillionaire? Where do you get that? He recently made some decent coin by selling a book......in 2016/2017. Prior to that, he was making 170k as a congress critter, good pay, but not rich.

I have repeatedly blamed the corruption. It can never be eliminated, but we can do so much better than we are today. Laws can be passed, systems and procedures can be adopted.

It will be very hard, but if enough of us stop playing these stupid partisan games (which YOU are doing)...we will just keep fighting.

Sometimes, the solution may appear to be "liberal", but if it works...why would you not want to implement it?

Bernie is a millionaire and owns two houses. The left seem to think voting for an honest person with all the wrong policies is good for the country. Hell, Bernie wants to empty all the jails and prisons so that I have a bigger chance of being victimized. No thanks. I'll take the candidate who has better policies for the country.

 

[Moderate Right]

Deep state does not equate to being partisan.

Not releasing the report would be partisan, undemocratic, and lacking transparency.

Is practicing the democratic process, and being transparent, too liberal for you to support?

Having Loretta Lynch meet Bill Clinton and then her DOJ receiving the FBI report on Hillary was not good for our country. The fix was in, just as the left are trying to claim the fix is in with the Mueller report being handed over to Trump's DOJ. But the left only see it one way.

 

[Cramer]

Bernie is a millionaire and owns two houses. The left seem to think voting for an honest person with all the wrong policies is good for the country. Hell, Bernie wants to empty all the jails and prisons so that I have a bigger chance of being victimized. No thanks. I'll take the candidate who has better policies for the country.

That, is not a moderate take on Bernie. That is bat **** crazy.

You really need to change your handle.

 

[Cramer]

Having Loretta Lynch meet Bill Clinton and then her DOJ receiving the FBI report on Hillary was not good for our country. The fix was in, just as the left are trying to claim the fix is in with the Mueller report being handed over to Trump's DOJ. But the left only see it one way.

Are you sure you are not a fan of Breitbart and Infowars....you look like you would fit right in with that crowd.

What I see the left saying, is let's see the report. And by that, I am not referring to the cable news networks....as I thought we agreed, they all suck.

 

[Moderate Right]

That, is not a moderate take on Bernie. That is bat **** crazy.

You really need to change your handle.

Bernie does want to empty the jails and prisons. He calls for it all the time. Our high incarceration rate is more important to him than me. And all of his socialist policies are bad for the country.

 

[Moderate Right]

Are you sure you are not a fan of Breitbart and Infowars....you look like you would fit right in with that crowd.

What I see the left saying, is let's see the report. And by that, I am not referring to the cable news networks....as I thought we agreed, they all suck.

You only want to talk about Trump and absolutely refuse to talk about Obama's currupt DOJ.

 

[NWRatCon]

You only want to talk about Trump and absolutely refuse to talk about Obama's currupt DOJ.

Well, I tried.

 

[Cramer]

Bernie does want to empty the jails and prisons. He calls for it all the time. Our high incarceration rate is more important to him than me. And all of his socialist policies are bad for the country.

Please link to the actual quotes where he states this.

 

[Cramer]

You only want to talk about Trump and absolutely refuse to talk about Obama's currupt DOJ.

Disagreement with DOJ, does not equate to corrupt.

If there are any corrupt people in the DOJ, why has Barr, and Sessions before...not prosecuted anyone?

In 8 years, how many people in the Obama Admin. were found to be corrupt?

I was not a fan of Trump prior to him getting into politics. He was a pompous arrogant, and ignorant spoiled brat, who managed to bankrupt several of his companies, including a damn casino.

As POTUS, I cannot stand him, as he has stained, soiled, and demoralized the OFFICE of the POTUS.

His policies also suck.

That is based on his actions....not some unfounded "derangement syndrome".

 

[Moderate Right]

Please link to the actual quotes where he states this.

Now you're just trying to give me BS to claim that Bernie has never said that he wants to let all prisoners go. You know darn well he has said he wants to let a lot of them go. He says it all the time.

 

[Moderate Right]

Disagreement with DOJ, does not equate to corrupt.

If there are any corrupt people in the DOJ, why has Barr, and Sessions before...not prosecuted anyone?

In 8 years, how many people in the Obama Admin. were found to be corrupt?

I was not a fan of Trump prior to him getting into politics. He was a pompous arrogant, and ignorant spoiled brat, who managed to bankrupt several of his companies, including a damn casino.

As POTUS, I cannot stand him, as he has stained, soiled, and demoralized the OFFICE of the POTUS.

His policies also suck.

That is based on his actions....not some unfounded "derangement syndrome".

In other words, you're partisan, through and through.

 

[Lesh]

Now you're just trying to give me BS to claim that Bernie has never said that he wants to let all prisoners go. You know darn well he has said he wants to let a lot of them go. He says it all the time.

If you can't link to it...it didn't happen

 

[Cramer]

Now you're just trying to give me BS to claim that Bernie has never said that he wants to let all prisoners go. You know darn well he has said he wants to let a lot of them go. He says it all the time.

If he says it all the time, it should be very easy for you to provide a few quotes.

 

[Cramer]

In other words, you're partisan, through and through.

I am partisan because I see Trump as an irresponsible person, appears to have narcissistic traits, and disrespects and mocks the office of the POTUS?

That is my take on the situation. Dispute the facts I post, and please start backing up some of the "facts" you post.

I also see you are now relying on making it about me, instead of addressing the facts.

I would to I suppose, if my argument was built on bull ****.

 

[Moderate Right]

If you can't link to it...it didn't happen

No, Bernie Sanders Did Not Promise to Free a Quarter of America's Prisoners | HuffPost

 

[Cramer]

No, Bernie Sanders Did Not Promise to Free a Quarter of America's Prisoners | HuffPost

Here is the quote from that article:

"at the end of my first term we won’t have more people in jail than in any other country."

Journalists tried to figure out what he meant by that, and guessed at what the number he was referring to. They in general thought that was impossible to do, as the POTUS can only free people from Federal prison.

Sanders' point was we have too many people in prison, assertion the system needs to be fixed.

And he is right.

 

[Cramer]

I have an idea: how about we strip off the partisan veneer and look at the point the OP is trying to address? Is there a better way to make appointments, or structure departments to limit partisan manipulation? And, what might the benefits or hazards of such solutions be?

There is the confirmation process. Maybe instead of the Senate confirming cabinet appointees, a non-partisan, unelected group of people confirm appointees.

Then again, what would the process be to appoint those people?

Maybe a group of equal numbers, from the minority party from both branches of congress confirms the cabinet appointees?


Moderate Right....what do you think?