It will undermine other country's confidence in our debt and economy moreso then any of the other options. It would be nearly nuclear in congress. You thought democrats were partisan when Bush was president or republicans are partisan when Obama is president? Both will pale compared to what would occur after minting a trill dollar coin. Is it even legal? The courts would probably find that it is not, due to the intent of the legislation allowing platinum coins (collectors).
The best way to do it, is cut spending/increase revenue then increase the debt ceiling so that we can stop hitting the debt limit every couple of years. This would create themost confidence in our debt around the world and ensure democrats don't promise to cut spending only to ingore the promise - as history has shown they do.
Buck...seriously ive heard these same claims of woe and dismay my entire life...Ive heard the country is going down the tubes..we wont survive...were are so far in debt we can never get out...do you really think all this POLISTICAL GARBAGE is new...do you think politicians creating doom scenarios for political gain is new...do you think that the rich and powerful creating crisis to turn the county in the direction they want it to go is NEW....got news for you this is all contrived bs for the rich and powerfuls gain...they created this debt and this crisis now its time to put the blame where they want it so they can gain more...its all bs
Holy ignorance on a stick, Batman! :shock: Interest payments run counter to market demand for the debt being issued.You might try explaining that when all teh banks of the World know that the USA is trapped into a debt spiral that interest rates are suddenly about 0%. When demand is up, rates go up. When demand is down, rates go down. That old supply and demand thing. Give me a play by play on the current circumstance, please.
Pop quiz, how do does Canada and the US compare on ratio of yearly government expenditures (total of all levels of government) as a percentage of GDP:Canada got rid of a lot of useless pork spending (though not enough) and there is no reason why the US can't do the same right now. But rather than make any move in that direction they added more pork.
The rub is that whether or not adults are still in majority in Congress is in question.Regardless, the trillion dollar cion will never happen while adults are still in congress,
Agreed, which is why the WH has indicated they have no intentions of pursuing it.…and it is not a good way, and probably one of the worst ways, to take care of the issue.
(k) The Secretary may mint and issue platinum bullion coins and proof platinum coins in accordance with such specifications, designs, varieties, quantities, denominations, and inscriptions as the Secretary, in the Secretary’s discretion, may prescribe from time to time.
Oh wait, buck, you are under the misguided impression that Congress needs to sign off on the coin design. Ah, I see your confusion. Nope, not according to the text of the law.
31 USC § 5112 - Denominations, specifications, and design of coins | LII / Legal Information Institute
My emphasis for ease of reading.
At that point, the American people must decide whose face will adorn the trillion dollar trinket. The process to determine the "specs" of the coin, U.S. Mint Public Affairs Specialist Genevieve Billia warns, must be "determined by legislation," creating the potential for another congressional impasse.
Also to note: The likeness sculpted into its side must belong to a dead person, ruling out early favorite Ikea Monkey, but boosting the candidacies of Ronald Reagan and John Maynard Keynes.
Well yeah, if you can’t actually be bothered to get off your ass and read (even when it is handed to you on platter) you are going to stay pretty ****ing ignorant.Without going through the law and to be as lazy as possible, I have my doubts:
Holy ignorance on a stick, Batman! :shock: Interest payments run counter to market demand for the debt being issued.
Yes, seriously. :roll:Seriously ?
Only partially.The Fed controls interest rates on Treasuries…
Great gooey, gobs of grimy, green, gopher grunt, Robin. Greece be saved! All they have to do is put a trilliooon dollars of bonds out there with no competing bidder and the Federal Reserve will buy them at about 0 % interest. No problem.. Let's see now, the US Treasury issues bonds and nobody bids so the Federal Reserve (a private corporation) buys them all for 0 %. Hot damn y'all an swar, Batman, I think we found the Holy Grail. Why is Greece paying 7% interest and it can't be their debt because it's about the same as ours. Is duplicity afoot? Let's try that again. The whole world knows the US needs money and borrows with bonds. Must be everybody wants them. No, They don't. China even stopped buying. ERGO, the US improves the bait by offering better interest, like Greece, but wait, No, they don't. The Private Corporation and BAnk, The Federal Reserve offers to purhase them near 0 % interest. Gadzooks, Batman, sell your Federal Reserve stock; it's being run by morons, it would appear.Holy ignorance on a stick, Batman! :shock: Interest payments run counter to market demand for the debt being issued.
In your addled mind they can put it out with bidding because the less demand for it the lower the rates.Great gooey, gobs of grimy, green, gopher grunt, Robin. Greece be saved! All they have to do is put a trillion dollars of bonds out there with no competing bidder and the Federal Reserve will buy them at about 0 % interest.
Buys them all? At 0%? Er, no. Yes, the Fed Reserve has sopped up some at certain periods (it even did this at times at a smaller scale prior to the 2008 recession). However:Let’s see now, the US Treasury issues bonds and nobody bids so the Federal Reserve (a private corporation) buys them all for 0 %.
Greece’s debt is not “about the same as ours”, by any measure..unless you happen to be a Japan citizen? But even that is a stretch, as Japan’s debt to GDP is somewhat higher than Greece’s.Why is Greece paying 7% interest and it can’t be their debt because it’s about the same as ours.
Well they started, again. Further:China even stopped buying.
“The biggest misconception in the marketplace is that Chinese buying of Treasuries has something to do with Treasuries,” said Krishna Memani, director of fixed income at OppenheimerFunds Inc. in New York, who manages $70 billion. “China buying Treasuries has everything to do with China’s trade position relative to the U.S. It’s entirely trade driven.”
Yes, seriously. :roll:
Only partially.
Institutional - How Treasury Auctions Work
Further, if the market was unwilling to buy enough of the pre-fixed yield bonds (i.e. demand was low) they would be pressured to raise the return rates on the debt issued.
Come on people, think. Why do you think that “junk bonds” have such high rates of interest?
In your addled mind they can put it out with bidding because the less demand for it the lower the rates.
:roll:
Buys them all? At 0%? Er, no. Yes, the Fed Reserve has sopped up some at certain periods (it even did this at times at a smaller scale prior to the 2008 recession). However:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/22/business/economy/as-the-us-borrows-who-lends.html?_r=0
Greece’s debt is not “about the same as ours”, by any measure..unless you happen to be a Japan citizen? But even that is a stretch, as Japan’s debt to GDP is somewhat higher than Greece’s.
Also, Greece has a much more fundamental problems than just the size of their debt that has earned them their current risk expectation on their government issued debt.
Well they started, again. Further:
China Resumed Treasury Buys in July as Trade Surplus Widened - Businessweek
Somebody has been feeding you a whole lot of misinformation and you’ve been lapping it up.
Your post was evidence otherwise. Or do you mean you get it now that I have corrected you? :3oops:Yes, Treasuries are sold through Treasury Auctions, I get that.
I think that investors considering US Treasury bonds as an instrument suitable for “sheltering their assets” blows out of the water DaveFagan’s assertions. :2wave:You think investors sheltering their assets in the last stand that is the US Treasury is a good thing ?
Sounds like the makings of a Bond bubble
Can you please stop that stupid ****.…as our debt ( a “non-issue”)…
To infinity, and beyond! :lamo..climbs to astronomical proportions…
The bulk of the US debt is longer term debt. The short-term debt (52 week bills and shorter) was running as about $1T of the debt back in 2009. The second stage of QE 3 (AKA QE Twist) was partially about moving some more short-term out into long term to make sure to maintain that risk buffer.…and these short term bonds mature…
If, for example, enough people became convinced that the numbnuts the in Congress peanut gallery were actually going to force the US government to default, sure that could happen. It cost a several billion in interest last time in 2011 as they convince at least a smaller number of people that they really are that bat****...and or are sold off at a discount rate.
First, 30-year T bonds are going for around 3%, 10-year ones (the biggest chunk of debt) are going for 2% and change.Point is a climbing debt based on short term Treasuries at low interest rates equals the inevitable increasing bond yield….unless we can guarantee interest rates will be kept a next to nothing for ever.
No you don’t.I see!
Your post was evidence otherwise. Or do you mean you get it now that I have corrected you? :3oops:
I think that investors considering US Treasury bonds as an instrument suitable for “sheltering their assets” blows out of the water DaveFagan’s assertions. :2wave:
What ? There are some here that argue that the debt isn't an issue or that it's being blown way out of proportion for political reasons. I was being facetious.....obviously.Can you please stop that stupid ****.
We reached infinity two years ago. What's a good stopping off point ? 20 T ? 30 T ?To infinity, and beyond! :lamo.
The bulk of the US debt is longer term debt. The short-term debt (52 week bills and shorter) was running as about $1T of the debt back in 2009. The second stage of QE 3 (AKA QE Twist) was partially about moving some more short-term out into long term to make sure to maintain that risk buffer.
If, for example, enough people became convinced that the numbnuts the in Congress peanut gallery were actually going to force the US government to default, sure that could happen. It cost a several billion in interest last time in 2011 as they convince at least a smaller number of people that they really are that bat****.
First, 30-year T bonds are going for around 3%, 10-year ones (the biggest chunk of debt) are going for 2% and change.
Next, IMO we do [as I have now repeated a number of times in this thread alone] need restructure government finances in the longer term. There will come a time when interest rates are going to rise. Fortunately along with that it is reasonable to expect that government revenue, even maintaining current tax policy, will have recovered somewhat. As well there will be less pressure on government programs that was created by the recession.**
So, in short, now is not the time to panic and do something that would be entirely destructive; Demand an immediately balanced US Fed budget.
** Longer discussion in here but I am going to leave that for now so as not to muddle the discussion.
You claimed that “The Fed controls interest rates on Treasuries”, which in NOT the case. Ergo you needed the correction…for something that you know claim is so obvious that I should not even mention it?I'm not the one attempting to justify the current administrations policies of deficit spending in response to a shrinking economy therefore I'm not the one in need of "correction".As for your pointing out that Treasuries are auctioned off I’m not really sure why you needed to point out the obvious.
What is not obvious that you were not being facetious towards me, which is nonsensical given my comments. What seemed to me far more obvious is that your brain is stuck deep in a false dichotomy.What ? There are some here that argue that the debt isn't an issue or that it's being blown way out of proportion for political reasons.I was being facetious…obviously.
Who is this “we”, Kimosabe? Oh sure these are dangerous times with idiots suggesting that it is a good idea to default on honouring Treasury instruments for “for a day or two or three or four” getting scarily close to the controls of power. But, although he still has a seat in Congress, he failed in his VP bid a couple months back and hopefully will get no closer anytime soon. Boehner even effectively moved him further out of influence by acknowledging he really is not in a position to negotiate, since he cannot delivery the goods on deals.But we ignore other risk, like sell off’s or waiting for our credit rating to be devalued forcing higher yields on short term bonds.
I would hope so. I do feel reasonably comfortable that in the end here are enough sane people left on the GOP side of the House to set aside party unity in favor of the country’s interests. But there is definitely a non-zero number bent on stopping it and being quite vocal about it, in a manner convincing enough that [semi-]serious discussions about $1T coins are being had. *shrug*I doubt they’re going to refuse to raise the debt ceiling…
Well I certainly have more faith in them than the [most likely to be elected] alternatives presented in 2008 and 2012.You seem to have far more faith and trust in our current administration…
no
. .
Pop quiz, how do does Canada and the US compare on ratio of yearly government expenditures (total of all levels of government) as a percentage of GDP:
1) USA’s expenditure ratio is notably higher
2) roughly the same
3) Canada’s expenditure ratio is notably higher
Well how about a 2 trillion dollar coin then?
Well how about a 2 trillion dollar coin then?
Why? A few reasons.Here's public debt by different countries. List of countries by public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You can see that Canada’s debt under a Conservative government is moving down while US debt, under BHO and his czars, continues to grow.
If you voted Republican for POLTUS in 2000, 2004, 2008, or [yes, even] 2012 you did. If you did not realize that, you did a very poor job of reading the [not so] fine print.You’ll note also that the US is getting up there with Portugal, Ireland and Greece. Did you vote for this?
You would think but try find someone billing themselves as “fiscally responsible” in Congress [publically] acknowledging that is nigh hopeless.As to public expenditures, if Canada is spending the money it is raising from taxes then it is preferable to borrowing it and getting trillions of dollars in debt.
A huge chunk of the problem is that when it comes down to the brass tacks of it very, very, very few people follow through on that. The vast majority that voice that really are talking about something else, using it as an excuse for an agenda that largely looks to and/or implies continuation and even deepening of the class hierarchy in this country [that undercuts the idea of a meritocracy].However if your point is that Canada is also over-governed, I would agree. There should be less in both countries.
Why? A few reasons.
1) Conservative party overall in
Canada is roughly on par with the right side of the Democratic party in the US, with some caveats.
2) A lot of the budget hard work was done a decade back in Canada, led by a fellow named Paul Martin. First as Finance Minister and then as Prime Minister, starting back in the mid-90’s. (( http://blogs.usask.ca/the_bolt/images/canada_debt_vs_gdp.gif , Canada General government gross debt in percent of GDP )) The Conservative government did not get into power till some time in 2006 and even then was a minority government (meaning they had a lot less sway) for a number of years after that.
3) Notice in the chart above the large leap in debt vs GDP in 2008? And, in no small part because Canada regulation thwarted a lot of the housing bubble that struck the US, the 2008 recession has been much kinder on Canada’s economy and its government budget, those effects multiplying to make the debt vs GDP hit smaller and shorter.
4) The US’s debt vs GDP has largely stabilized, returning to somewhere around the pre-recession rates of rising.
See, that is the key here. Canada’s debt vs GDP was falling pre-recession and had been for about 12 years. Pre-recession in the US, for about 8 years, it had been rising. And the GOP still has not managed to shake from them the attitude and philosophies and policies that made it that way. Complete. Total. Denial.
If you voted Republican for POLTUS in 2000, 2004, 2008, or [yes, even] 2012 you did. If you did not realize that, you did a very poor job of reading the [not so] fine print.
You would think but try find someone billing themselves as “fiscally responsible” in Congress [publically] acknowledging that is nigh hopeless.
A huge chunk of the problem is that when it comes down to the brass tacks of it very, very, very few people follow through on that. The vast majority that voice that really are talking about something else, using it as an excuse for an agenda that largely looks to and/or implies continuation and even deepening of the class hierarchy in this country [that undercuts the idea of a meritocracy].
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