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Can Foreign Aid Save Africa?

hrdman2luv

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Congress is poised to pass the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR) authorizing up to $50 million in unconstitutional foreign aid. The bill passed out of the Foreign Affairs Committee with a bipartisan agreement to nearly double the President's requested amount. It is always distressing to see officials in our government reach across the aisle to disregard Constitutional limitations.

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How can we afford to do this when we're sinking billions in a foreign war and have borrowed so much to finance it that the value of a dollar bill is just slightly higher than a square of toilet paper?
 
How can we afford to do this when we're sinking billions in a foreign war and have borrowed so much to finance it that the value of a dollar bill is just slightly higher than a square of toilet paper?


Did you not hear? They found oil in the Sudan. The Sudanese oil will pay for it. Just like the Iraqi oil has paid for that little excursion.
 
Did you not hear? They found oil in the Sudan. The Sudanese oil will pay for it. Just like the Iraqi oil has paid for that little excursion.

Will it flow like a river? Will they dance in the streets too?


There's a gas station in my hometown that went out of business in 2001. It's now a vacant building. The sign by the gas pump says $1.23 a gal.
 
God do I miss those days.

You & me both.

Americans don't need Universal health care.

What Americans need is $1.50 a gallon for gas, that $1.50 actually being worth something and that $1.50 not going in to the pockets of people who hate us and are set to undermine us.

Write in TSM in Nov.
 
You & me both.

Americans don't need Universal health care.

What Americans need is $1.50 a gallon for gas, that $1.50 actually being worth something and that $1.50 not going in to the pockets of people who hate us and are set to undermine us.

Write in TSM in Nov.

Dude I can adjust but a man can only adjust so much until his or her bank is broken. Of course there is also that new gas tax that was passed or currently going through congress which is such a great idea when the economy isnt in its best shape. :roll: Someone needs to nix all gas taxes or at the very least just have one tax on it a standard sales tax because everyone is hurting.
 
Foreign aid doesn't do any good when it just lines the pockets of the bastards that make Africa suck so much. Better off finding a way to help decent hard-working Africans get rid of their parasitic government overlords.
 
Its not our business to "fix" Africa and never was.
 
It's not a matter of charity.

Its not our business to "fix" Africa and never was.
The reason why there's an interest in 'fixing' Africa, and the reason why its 'our business' is because Africa is destabilizing very quickly. It represents a security threat to the entire world. It's quickly becoming a terrorist haven.

It's not a matter of charity.


But to address the question Africa has too many infrastructure problems to use the monies that could be made available to it. Unless those are addressed there's not much that foreign money can do.
 
Lets put it this way.

How much money has been funneled into Africa to this point? And how much progress has been made?

Its apparent that passing around the collection plate isn't working, but leaving them to their fate is prehaps even more dangerous, short term and long term.

A new direction is needed.
 
Dude I can adjust but a man can only adjust so much until his or her bank is broken. Of course there is also that new gas tax that was passed or currently going through congress which is such a great idea when the economy isnt in its best shape. :roll: Someone needs to nix all gas taxes or at the very least just have one tax on it a standard sales tax because everyone is hurting.

Thank you Johnny Mac. Woo gas tax!

Lets put it this way.

How much money has been funneled into Africa to this point? And how much progress has been made?

Its apparent that passing around the collection plate isn't working, but leaving them to their fate is prehaps even more dangerous, short term and long term.

A new direction is needed.

Its something I HATE about law makers in this country. Drugs, Poverty, Africa....hmm, there's a problem, "THROW MONEY AT IT!"

Hey, fellow senator, did it fix it?

Nope, don't think it did. Know what we have to do?

Throw more money at it?

YEAH!

Ugg.

Time to take a new approach indeed.
 
Thank you Johnny Mac. Woo gas tax!



Its something I HATE about law makers in this country. Drugs, Poverty, Africa....hmm, there's a problem, "THROW MONEY AT IT!"

Hey, fellow senator, did it fix it?

Nope, don't think it did. Know what we have to do?

Throw more money at it?

YEAH!

Ugg.

Time to take a new approach indeed.

The problem is, is that Africa isn't something any one country can fix on its own. But someone is going to have to emerge as a leader, before others begrudgingley follow. For now its enough for countries to think they are accomplishing something by sending 5 man teams to study the situation in Africa, and embassy appointees to pass out checks.
 
Hey, it could be Bill Gates. Remember all those humanitarian efforts he put into Africa, a couple of years ago?

Well, now when you call microsoft tech support, you get someone from Kenya, that makes a dollar a day, and you can't understand a word they say.

Way to go Bill. Maybe next time, he should just send money, instead of American jobs.
 
Its nearly impossible to start your own business in many countries in Africa the system works on bribes.The governments there dont mind feeding the poor with food aid but this will never solve the problems.

Africa is rampant with disease with very little medical care.Its get a rough climate and the farmland that is used tends to grow crops that there is already too much of being produced in the world so the price they get for it is always extremly low.There governments are rotton with corpution to the core and this spreads down into every government department.

Some of the areas that could get tourist money make tourist require fixers to get to places and bribes.

Countries like the Congo have actually gone backwards in development forests have now overgrown where railways once where.Theres been an internal war thats been going must be close to a decade now.

It seems everytime a country starts to do better in Africa tribalism sets in and sets back all the progress.
 
I believe thats Africa's problem......

They oil, diamonds, gold, and vegetation. They have the abilities to either keep themselves where they are, go to where we are, or return to where they once were. It's their country. And their choice.

It should not be the ability of our elected officials to use American tax dollars, or money from the Government's foreign investments (which our tax dollars were used to fund initially), to be used for foreign intervention.

Nor should the USA's military or political might, be used to influence decisions made by foreign leaders.
 
They oil, diamonds, gold, and vegetation. They have the abilities to either keep themselves where they are, go to where we are, or return to where they once were. It's their country. And their choice.

IIRC, Africa's not a country. The same was said of Afghanistan once I'm sure. Yet somehow the events in the backwaters of Asia rocked the world.
 
IIRC, Africa's not a country. The same was said of Afghanistan once I'm sure. Yet somehow the events in the backwaters of Asia rocked the world.

And exactly what was accomplished in the backwaters of Asia that couldn't have been pulled off without the assistance of political correctness, and out of control immigration-student VISA policy and box-cutters?
 
I believe thats Africa's problem......

They oil, diamonds, gold, and vegetation. They have the abilities to either keep themselves where they are, go to where we are, or return to where they once were. It's their country. And their choice.

Do you really think its that simple? Do you think there are enough resources in the world to have 1 billion Africans live the same lifestyle that we do? Unless the west cuts wasteful consumption most of the world can't develop because the lifestyle is unsustainable.

Jared Diamond said:
Yet we often promise developing countries that if they will only adopt good policies - for example, institute honest government and a free-market economy - they, too, will be able to enjoy a first-world lifestyle. This promise is impossible, a cruel hoax: we are having difficulty supporting a first-world lifestyle even now for only one billion people.
Jared Diamond | What's Your Consumption Factor?
 
And exactly what was accomplished in the backwaters of Asia that couldn't have been pulled off without the assistance of political correctness, and out of control immigration-student VISA policy and box-cutters?
I apologize, but could you please rephrase the question?
 
Do you really think its that simple? Do you think there are enough resources in the world to have 1 billion Africans live the same lifestyle that we do? Unless the west cuts wasteful consumption most of the world can't develop because the lifestyle is unsustainable.

I don't really care about what kind of lifestyle they can develope. But, if they wanted to, I'm sure over time, they could. As I said, they have all the same resources we have here. Maybe even more. Who knows what they have.

But the point is, we shouldn't be funding then in any way, shape or form.
 
I apologize, but could you please rephrase the question?

I assume you're talking about al Quaeda & the Taliban as in reference to Afghanistan - 'events in Asia'.

I ask: what could have these people accomplished against the US without the assistance of political correctness, an out of control immigration policy (overstayed visas) and box cutters?




It's a bit of a rhetorical question...
 
I assume you're talking about al Quaeda & the Taliban as in reference to Afghanistan - 'events in Asia'.
I ask: what could have these people accomplished against the US without the assistance of political correctness, an out of control immigration policy (overstayed visas) and box cutters?
It's a bit of a rhetorical question...
A nuclear weapon in a shipping container in San Diego has been suggested.
Are you trying to blame the victim here or are you trying to say that the great and rapid loss of life in Africa will not have consequences for the rest of the world?

<break, new subject>

The virtual loss of generations in many parts of Africa has been a significant factor hampering the ability of countries there to function.
If someone decides to be kind, they will pull up some of the more relevant data from the afflicted areas.
 
Hopefully GySgt will be around to see this thread before it drops off. I know he has spent time in Somalia and prehaps other areas in Africa. There is a reason that the horn of Africa was, and still is a recruiting ground for islamic extremists. He has, in the past explained it succiently.

As someone sadi before, the continent of Africa has many natural resources that could support thriving economies. Prehaps the arid, desert regions would have a harder time of it, but there is no reason those countries couldn't work something beneficial out with neighboring countries. Hell, just about the entire ME is awash in the worlds most demanded resource. But where are the universities? Where is the higher education? Where is the education for women? The ME and Africa have been scientifically proven to be the birthplaces of man and civilization. If anything, these places should be the most advanced cultures in the world, with the west struggling to keep up. These regions of the planet should be light years ahead of everybody. They have been settled longer.

But they aren't. At some points, cultures in parts of Africa and in the ME were among the elite of the world. But they fell apart, and have never regained their past glory? What you have to ask yourself is why? And I think that therin lies the answer. What went wrong, that these places began a backwards crawl? If we examine that, and work from there, I think we would be better served to guide these countries back into modern times, rather than signing a check, and hope that they get it right this time.

If we weren't currently involved in Iraq and Afghanistan, I would gladly speak out that we should lead the way in Africa. Still even with our commitments in those countries, we have Marines in Chad, and the Horn of Africa is a common deployment for MEU(Marine Expeditionary units). We have seen a few Air Force strikes with AC-130 gunships on Al-Qaueda strongholds recently. But to undertake what needs to be undertaken in Africa, requires more than we can currently commit. Everybody here that knows me, knows I favor a strong, interventionalist approach to world crisis, or potential crisis. However, it generally is misconstrued in the way that most think I favor only a US led intervention. This could not be further from the truth. It is my desire to see other countries of western civilization step up to the plate and answer the call of humanitarian crisis, or to avert crisis.
Sadly, even when a crisis erupts in their own yard, they are unwilling to commit to action. Kosovo (in the 90s) was a prime example of this. Why should I reasonably expect those countries to commit anything substantial to countries that don't even reside on the same continent?
Make no bones about it, the real atrocities going on in Africa are serving no purpose for good. There is an actual humanitarian crisis going on there. Here we are in the US, worrying if a junkie is using clean needles. Or trying to stamp out gay marriage. These aren't problems we need be worrying about. These aren't crisis. What happens in Africa on a daily basis dwarfs any of our concerns about getting some "free" healthcare like Cuba, or having the Ten Commandments on public property.
What happens in Africa, is a direct reflection of how little humanity really cares about itself, IMO. Once that outlook changes, I might think we have a chance as a species.
 
I don't really care about what kind of lifestyle they can develope. But, if they wanted to, I'm sure over time, they could. As I said, they have all the same resources we have here. Maybe even more. Who knows what they have.

But the point is, we shouldn't be funding then in any way, shape or form.

Why not? Western civilization funded itself, via colonialism, at the expense of Africa for many centuries.
 
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