Can a word have more than one definition?

[CriticalThought]

Gays can already go have religious or other personal ceremonies. Gays can already live together, buy property together, leave each-other inheritances regardless of sex or sexual orientation with living will, last will and testament and power of aterney (yes, a hospital HAS to let you PoA in. They are required by law and you can get a sherrif to enforce it with not but a phone call).

No one is stopping gays from living however they want. Several million couples in America and even more over seas live out their entire relationships, to their death, without ever being legally married. Gays can do this also.

That is incorrect and ill informed. In some states the restrictions against same sex couples are so severe that anything "similar to marriage" is prohibited. That means that powers of attorney, wills and other such documents between same-sex couples that create a relationship “similar to marriage” are treated as invalid in those states.

This has already been laid out in many different court cases. I don't know why you anti same sex marriage people keep bringing it up, unless either you don't know about it or you are lying to sway people who are on the fence.

http://pamshouseblend.firedoglake.c...ttorney-and-health-care-proxies-arent-enough/
http://www.examiner.com/civil-liber...-no-substitute-for-gay-marriage#ixzz1NKkfUcOb
http://lgbtcancer.com/lesbian-coupl...-fresno-hospital-following-lgbt-rights-event/

In the real world, a simple nurse has the power to override a power of attorney. There is no "go get the sheriff". That isn't how it works.

The primary functions of marriage is to make two unrelated adults into close kin. That simply cannot be accomplished with those types of legal documents, and those documents are often even ignored or challenged in a way that marriage would never be.

 

[Jerry]

What if they don't want to? And would rather get married?


...what then?

Then they join every other kind of couple/trio/quad who can't legally wed.

 

[MKULTRABOY]

Then they join every other kind of couple/trio/quad who can't legally wed.

What couple's can't legally wed?
Perhaps Jews and Arabs
Or black and white people perhaps.

 

[Jerry]

That is incorrect and ill informed. In some states the restrictions against same sex couples are so severe that anything "similar to marriage" is prohibited. That means that powers of attorney, wills and other such documents between same-sex couples that create a relationship “similar to marriage” are treated as invalid in those states.

This has already been laid out in many different court cases. I don't know why you anti same sex marriage people keep bringing it up, unless either you don't know about it or you are lying to sway people who are on the fence.

That I'm somehow legally wed to my father (because he is my PoA and is already married, as am I) establishes precedent for polygamy, same-sex and insestuis marriage, then.

So yes this would be new info. I'll have a look at your links.

 

[Jerry]

What couple's can't legally wed?
Perhaps Jews and Arabs
Or black and white people perhaps.

According to CriticalThought, I am already married to my father since he is my General Power of Aterney, and my mother also since she is the principal benefactor in my last will and survivor's benefits; so, I'll have to get back to you.

 

[MKULTRABOY]

According to CriticalThought, I am already married to my father since he is my General Power of Aterney, and my mother also since she is the principal benefactor in my last will and survivor's benefits; so, I'll have to get back to you.

I hear yuh can marry yur couzin in west vurginyuh.

 

[CriticalThought]

That I'm somehow legally wed to my father (because he is my PoA and is already married, as am I) establishes precedent for polygamy, same-sex and insestuis marriage, then.

So yes this would be new info. I'll have a look at your links.

Huh? Your father is kin. That is quite a stretch. Marriage is about bringing two unrelated people together as kin.

 

[CriticalThought]

According to CriticalThought, I am already married to my father since he is my General Power of Aterney, and my mother also since she is the principal benefactor in my last will and survivor's benefits; so, I'll have to get back to you.

What the hell are you talking about? I argued the exact opposite of what you are suggesting.

 

[Jerry]

"You don’t belong here": why powers of attorney and health care proxies aren’t enough | Pam's House Blend

You're first link is about a hospital braking the law. Please see: Hospital Visitation Rights for Gay, Lesbian Partners Take Effect - ABC News

Patients at nearly every hospital in the country will now be allowed to decide who has ​

visitation rights

and who can make medical decisions on their behalf -- regardless of sexual orientation, gender identity or family makeup -- under new federal regulations that took effect Tuesday.​

I fully support this law. No one's rights to free association need to be infringed upon over hospital visitation.

Edit:
Your second link is also about a hospital braking the law, NOT the law forbidding same-sex couples to be together.

Edit:
And your 3rd link is also about a hospital braking the law.

***
Bottom line, anyone the patient gives permission to have the legal Federal RIGHT to visit that patient. If I were ill and/or dying I can think if a few buds I would want to see, and we don't even have a romantic interest, we're just good friends. No one's right to Free Association should be infringed upon over visitation, especially not individuals holding PoA, Living Will executors or Medical Proxi over the patient.

***
No, this does not mean you should be allowed to get married.

 

[Jerry]

Huh? Your father is kin. That is quite a stretch. Marriage is about bringing two unrelated people together as kin.

We were on the point that gays can get PoA, wills, etc, when you said this wasn't true because gays were being denied any legal construct which resembled marriage. You were saying a PoA was one such legal construct gays were being denied because it resembled a marriage. Therefore, since I have a PoA with my father, he and I share a legal construct which closely resembles marriage, according to you.

Then to prove your claim you sourced hospitals braking Federal law.

You sourced something other than your point. Gays are being denied Marriage, Civil Unions and Domestic Partnerships, not hospital visitation.

 

[MKULTRABOY]

No, this does not mean you should be allowed to get married.

And what authority do you represent in this instance that judges who shall be married and who shall not?
I would certainly hope it is not a divine authority in a secular country.

:coffeepap

 

[CriticalThought]

You're first link is about a hospital braking the law. Please see: Hospital Visitation Rights for Gay, Lesbian Partners Take Effect - ABC News

You are proving my point. The President of the United States had to create a special memorandum for just hospital visitations because PoAs and advance directives are not being respected. That is only one example of literally thousands of cases where PoAs, wills, testaments, advance directives, and other such documentation does not extend anywhere near the protection to same sex couples that marriage does.

You are also of course ignoring literally hundreds of other rights bestowed by marriage.

I could be forced to testify against my partner, but a spouse could never be forced to testify against their spouse. What would a PoA or will do to change that fact?
If a company sold a product that killed someone's spouse then they could sue that company, but I could not if my partner was the victim.
Courts still side with family over same sex partners a majority of the time when it comes to wills.

On an on the it goes. Is the president going to have to create a memorandum for every single discrepancy simply because you and others like you wish to entertain the illusion that PoAs and wills are comparable to marriage?

Your second link is also about a hospital braking the law, NOT the law forbidding same-sex couples to be together.

You really need to learn to read dates. Obama's memorandum was in response to these actions.

 

[Jerry]

And what authority do you represent in this instance that judges who shall be married and who shall not?
I would certainly hope it is not a divine authority in a secular country.

:coffeepap

I suppose, the same authority by which you say they should.

 

[CriticalThought]

We were on the point that gays can get PoA, wills, etc, when you said this wasn't true because gays were being denied any legal construct which resembled marriage. You were saying a PoA was one such legal construct gays were being denied because it resembled a marriage. Therefore, since I have a PoA with my father, he and I share a legal construct which closely resembles marriage, according to you.

Then to prove your claim you sourced hospitals braking Federal law.

You sourced something other than your point. Gays are being denied Marriage, Civil Unions and Domestic Partnerships, not hospital visitation.

You really are ignorant of the laws. Let's start with Virginia.

Virgina's Affirmation of Marriage Act

"A civil union, partnership contract or other arrangement between persons of the same sex purporting to bestow the privileges or obligations of marriage is prohibited. Any such civil union, partnership contract or other arrangement entered into by persons of the same sex in another state or jurisdiction shall be void in all respects in Virginia and any contractual rights created thereby shall be void and unenforceable."

How powerful do you think any contract I enter into with my partner would be in Virginia?

 

[Jerry]

You are proving my point. The President of the United States had to create a special memorandum for just hospital visitations because PoAs and advance directives are not being respected. That is only one example of literally thousands of cases where PoAs, wills, testaments, advance directives, and other such documentation does not extend anywhere near the protection to same sex couples that marriage does.

A memorandum is not a law and the President couldn't create it if it were. The legislature creates laws and yes this is the right thing to do even if homosexuality didn't exist. Hospital visitation is not a problem unique to gays thoe I'm sure you like to think it is.

You are also of course ignoring literally hundreds of other rights bestowed by marriage.

The word is "deny", not "ignore". I see them, I know them, and I'm saying "no".

I could be forced to testify against my partner

That's correct. Same-sex couples should not have this right.

What would a PoA or will do to change that fact?

Wills and PoA address medical and financhial decisions and inheritance only. No PoA or Executor of any will should have Spousal Privilege.

If a company sold a product that killed someone's spouse then they could sue that company, but I could not if my partner was the victim.

A spouse can only sue for damages they receive, such as a loss of community property. Nothing stops you from suing for the same provided you have "community property" with you 'partner'. Even if you're married, you have to be damaged by the product to have grounds for a lawsuit. A house payment that can no longer be met, a joint business venture you were never expected to manage on your own, etc.

Courts still side with family over same sex partners a majority of the time when it comes to wills.

Nope.

On an on the it goes. Is the president going to have to create a memorandum for every single discrepancy simply because you and others like you wish to entertain the illusion that PoAs and wills are comparable to marriage?

Memorandums are not laws and do not carry the force of law. If they did, they would be laws and the POTUS would be banned by the very constitution you're trying to misuse to get marriage from making such memorandums.

Only the legislature can make laws.

You really need to learn to read dates. Obama's memorandum was in response to these actions.

No, rather you need to learn to use the most recent and newest information when making your arguments.

It must suck debating someone who sees right through all your bull****.

 

[MKULTRABOY]

I suppose, the same authority by which you say they should.

My authority is the spirit of libertarianism by which no law shall deprive anyone of any right. :roll:

 

[Jerry]

My authority is the spirit of libertarianism by which no law shall deprive anyone of any right. :roll:

Oh, you're a loosertarian. Well I guess we're not using the same authority, Mr. LegaliseAllHardDrugsNoPerscriptions.

I thought we were each using the forum Admin's permission as the authority to post what we please on this forum, but evidently I was wrong.

So anyway, now you know. Were you going somewhere with the question?

 

[MKULTRABOY]

Oh, you're a loosertarian. Well I guess we're not using the same authority, Mr. LegaliseAllHardDrugsNoPerscriptions.

Oh, oh yeah, well your a Mr.PraytoImaginaryJesusmanManintheSkyDontDoitintheButtman.

Your mother is a hamster.

Have at ye.

 

[Jerry]

Oh, oh yeah, well your a Mr.PraytoImaginaryJesusmanManintheSkyDontDoitintheButtman.

Your mother is a hamster.

Oh please, your handle "mkultraboy" is about psychedelic experimental drug research involving lsd and cocain in the 70s. With your handle you're telling the world that your parents were said addicts and that you're not only the child of dug users but that this is somehow a core part of your identity, that drugs had an effect on the pregnancy which we know today are not positive effects.

You choose to wear a dunce cap in public but cry when someone points it out.

 

[MKULTRABOY]

Oh please, your handle "mkultraboy" is about psychedelic experimental drug research involving lsd and cocain in the 70s. With your handle you're telling the world that your parents were said addicts and that you're not only the child of dug users but that this is somehow a core part of your identity, that drugs had an effect on the pregnancy which we know today are not positive effects.

You choose to wear a dunce cap in public but cry when someone points it out.

Actually it was being used experimentally on random people who were sequestered to be evaluated for use as a interrogation drug, a psychological torture drug, and a mind control drug. Eat a dick.

also.. 'said addicts'? wtf does that mean that you think my parents were sequestered by the CIA then had me and were 'addicted' to lsd?
You know lsd isnt addictive right?
There's a large handful of things wrong with you and your post and I'll leave it at that.

The -boy is a nod to comic book superhero in a lighthearted way.

You're named Jerry, wtf are you? German?

 

[MKULTRABOY]

You gonna be on the street when you cant transition back to civilian life?

 

[Jerry]

u-mad bro?

 

[MKULTRABOY]

I'm mad I'm probably gonna subsidize a couple grand out of my life income so you can have internet and icecream and snickers wherever you are in Afghanistan and healthcare for the rest of your life. Seriously do I need to pay Halliburton 50 bucks for every snickers bar you have over there?

 

[MKULTRABOY]

No really, I'm broke atm.

Hit me back with a paypal transfer.

 

[Jerry]

I'm mad I'm probably gonna subsidize a couple grand out of my life income so you can have internet and icecream and snickers wherever you are in Afghanistan and healthcare for the rest of your life. Seriously do I need to pay Halliburton 50 bucks for every snickers bar you have over there?

We could really use Halliburton right now. These other contractors suck, like Fluor. They have no idea wtf is going on.

Folks don't understand that America is not leaving Afghanistan, only the US military is leaving. Private contractors are taking everything over, and most of these contractors are American.

The troops aren't coming home, they're signing with contractors and going right back because as a civilian they make 3x the $$$ and a good chunk of it is tax-payer funded.