Calling all men: this is what we can do to help women feel safe exercising in the dark.

[EMNofSeattle]

Didn't finish my comment: Don't get upset when your Catholic church is called to account for doing what it did.

Is stalking OK, EMN?

Lol now you’re going to start a long deflection about stalking.

Like I said, I've never seen anyone else on DP get so upset about the mere discussion of consent. Ever. Not the debate, but the mere mention of it. Even the other righties generally know to tread carefully around the topic of consent. It's very telling that you didn't want to go to that thread, where everyone regardless of political affiliation was agreeing that consent = good.

I never said otherwise, I am saying your long ranting about consent is not relevant to the thread topic and it’s at best you stroking your own ego.

Like you claim in other threads everyone who’s not a far leftists is a racist your consent statements here are just a statement of left political loyalty in this context

 

[Phys251]

Lol now you’re going to start a long deflection about stalking.

The OP literally talks about women's efforts to stay safe from stalking. READ.

Have you only consensually stalked women too?

Not even going to touch that disgusting question with a ten-foot pole. You figure it out.

I never said otherwise, I am saying your long ranting about consent is not relevant to the thread topic and it’s at best you stroking your own ego.

Like you claim in other threads everyone who’s not a far leftists is a racist your argument is going to be everyone you don’t like is a rapist too.

Keep showing the world how much you struggle with a simple discussion about consent.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

The OP literally talks about women's efforts to stay safe from stalking. READ.

No it concerns a man telling other men to not interact with women. Going so far as to say if you see a woman on your side of the street you should cross the street to get far away like a caricature of 1950s Americans not wanting to cross paths with black people

Not even going to touch that disgusting question with a ten-foot pole. You figure it out.

Well in your world apparently stalking includes compliments and walking in the sidewalk.

Keep showing the world how much you struggle with a simple discussion about consent.

The thread is not about consent. Start your own thread. Not that I’d join your consent struggle session

 

[Jredbaron96]

The OP literally talks about women's efforts to stay safe from stalking. READ.



Not even going to touch that disgusting question with a ten-foot pole. You figure it out.



Keep showing the world how much you struggle with a simple discussion about consent.

No it concerns a man telling other men to not interact with women. Going so far as to say if you see a woman on your side of the street you should cross the street to get far away like a caricature of 1950s Americans not wanting to cross paths with black people

Well in your world apparently stalking includes compliments and walking in the sidewalk.


The thread is not about consent. Start your own thread. Not that I’d join your consent struggle session

Moderator's Warning:

This back and forth nonsense between you two ends now.

 

[Aristaeus]

Dear god, just stop already. You're making a very strong case that you have no clue what consent even is.

EMN thinks approaching a woman walking alone at night and 'complimenting' her is not at all creepy and intimidating.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

EMN thinks approaching a woman walking alone at night and 'complimenting' her is not at all creepy and intimidating.

Who said anything about “at night?”

Are you going to cut across the street every time you see a lady too?

 

[Chomsky]

Yes, I have fears. I can't quantify them, but having been sexually assaulted, I am well aware of what some men are capable of, and unfortunately, that sort of man could turn up anywhere. Now, I spend more time worrying about my daughter than myself, but a woman alone in the dark -- that's a very, very, very real reason to fear.

Thanks for your candor, here.

I can see some of the point of the OP article I suppose, as most men don't have these fears - at least to any appreciable extent.

 

[Eurotrash]

Thanks for your candor, here.

I can see some of the point of the OP article I suppose, as most men don't have these fears - at least to any appreciable extent.

In my experience men really don't understand this fear. It's hard to understand, I guess, if your mind would never go there itself, and you've never been assaulted. My husband used to laugh at me when I told him to go meet our daughter when she had to park a block away at night. "She'll be fine," he'd say. "This is a safe neighborhood." I say, never, ever assume nothing bad can happen to a young woman alone at night. Never.

 

[AJG]

Pffft lame.

The entire OP is saying to basically never interact with women at all.

The OP focuses specifically on interacting with women exercising in the dark. I don't know how you came to this conclusion unless you only interact with women when they are exercising in the dark? I manage to interact with women daily without doing the things the OP mentioned. It's quite easy.

 

[CLAX1911]

The OP focuses specifically on interacting with women exercising in the dark. I don't know how you came to this conclusion unless you only interact with women when they are exercising in the dark? I manage to interact with women daily without doing the things the OP mentioned. It's quite easy.

All it takes is for one of them to say they feel threatened by you and then your interactions become essentially the same as interacting with women while the exercise in the dark.

 

[AJG]

All it takes is for one of them to say they feel threatened by you and then your interactions become essentially the same as interacting with women while the exercise in the dark.

If you're arguing that there are women who have made unreasonable claims about being threatened, then I agree with you. Here's one well known example:



However, it's perfectly reasonable to feel threatened when approached or followed by a stranger while jogging around at night, especially in a secluded area. Obviously chance encounters happen, like if two people happen to be heading in the same direction. Unfortunately, someone is not going to be able to easily tell the difference between a stalker and someone who just happens to be heading in the same direction as you. I think the things the OP mentioned are pretty simple and reasonable ways we can prevent women from feeling unsafe when these chance encounters do happen.

 

[yankintx]

I carry pepper spray with me and my phone when I leave the house. I have had a few incidents but they had a bad day because of it.

But you should not have to do such things. In Saudi women only gyms are common, and most gyms have women only hours, with door security. Would you join a women only gym if given the option?

But then again Saudi men are sex starved, and would hump the family dog, sad to say.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Here are the rules I just explained to my 19-year-old niece this past weekend. These are "old school" rules handed down from one generation of women to another:

1. Find a friend. If you are going to be out and about at a time when you cannot see your surroundings well, find a friend and stay with them.

• I don't care if it is jogging at 5 am or coming/going to a party/parked car at 10 pm. Safety in numbers and two is better than one.

2. Always tell SOMEONE where you are going - and when you can be expected to be back. If this changes, then let that person know.

• This applies to going to study at a campus library, coming/going from work, going to the gym or for a run, if you're going to meet up with someone at a party. And it also applies to meeting a date, etc. ESPECIALLY if you are a single woman living alone. It takes 30 seconds to touch base with friends/family and let them know where you will be.
• If you can, share your location via your phone/watch.

3. NO earbuds, etc if you are alone. If you have earbuds in your ears and music, etc. playing - you aren't paying attention to your surroundings.

• The best way to become a victim is to be easy prey. You want to SEE and HEAR your surroundings, you can't do that with earbuds in.

4. NEVER take a drink, food, etc. from a stranger.

• Never take a drink at a party that you didn't pour/watch a PAID bartender pour or open yourself. EVER. This is how you get roofied or completely smashed where you aren't thinking straight. DO NOT trust the frat guy to "make" you a drink. DO NOT trust the mixed punchbowl-type drink - it is going to taste horrible, you're going to get a hangover and you could wind up roofied or simply just making poor decisions because it's much strong than you anticipate. Stick with a seltzer or a beer. You can drink more with your girlfriends in a safer environment.
• Do not take a water bottle from someone at a gym, etc.
• Do not take a random cup of coffee from a stranger.
• If you do not know them, say thank you but no thank you and decline.
• NO Stranger/person at a frat party, the bar, etc. with good intentions will EVER try to force you to take food/drink they offer.

5. NEVER leave a girlfriend behind.

• You come together, you leave together and you stay together in between.
• I don't care how drunk someone is, how badly they want to hook up with the cute guy, etc. You come together, you stay together, and you leave together.
• I don't care WHO is mad over this rule. You can fight it out later.

6. Do not give strangers your address.

• EVER. You do not give strangers your address and/or let them know that you live alone.

I've covered many of these with my daughter as well. What's been great to see is she's the responsible one among her friends.

 

[ElChupacabra]

But you should not have to do such things. In Saudi women only gyms are common, and most gyms have women only hours, with door security. Would you join a women only gym if given the option?

But then again Saudi men are sex starved, and would hump the family dog, sad to say.

That's never a good thing for a society.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Yes, I have fears. I can't quantify them, but having been sexually assaulted, I am well aware of what some men are capable of, and unfortunately, that sort of man could turn up anywhere. Now, I spend more time worrying about my daughter than myself, but a woman alone in the dark -- that's a very, very, very real reason to fear.

Anyone "alone in the dark" is in a less safe situation than someone with a group of friends, or someone in a lighted area. It's just common sense. If I lived in a city or a bad area, I, as a guy, would think twice before "exercising in the dark." Not sure why anyone is out exercising in the dark anyway, but I guess if there are streetlights one can go for an early morning or late night jog. I would have no issue with my wife or daughters doing that in our current neighborhood, because it's extremely safe. But, if we were more urban, no way in hell.

 

[Phys251]

Anyone "alone in the dark" is in a less safe situation than someone with a group of friends, or someone in a lighted area. It's just common sense. If I lived in a city or a bad area, I, as a guy, would think twice before "exercising in the dark." Not sure why anyone is out exercising in the dark anyway, but I guess if there are streetlights one can go for an early morning or late night jog. I would have no issue with my wife or daughters doing that in our current neighborhood, because it's extremely safe. But, if we were more urban, no way in hell.

Blaming the victim, check. Equivocation between violence against women and violence against men, check.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Blaming the victim, check. Equivocation between violence against women and violence against men, check.

Who blamed whom now? I didn't blame anyone.

There is no "equivocation" going on in my post. I was clear with no equivocation - going out and exercising in the dark alone is not as safe as being out with a group in the daytime. That's obvious, and it's not blaming anyone.

I had a soccer coach when I was a kid who accused players of "dribbling the ball like a blind man, walking down a dark alley with $100 bills sticking out of his pockets!" Why does that make metaphorical sense? Because to do that makes one vulnerable to being pickpocketed. That's not blaming the victim of the pickpocket. It's reality.



Blaming the victim?

 

[Binary_Digit]

First, keep your distance: the closer you are, the more threatening you seem. If you’re walking or running behind a woman, pause to give her some space, or cross the road so you aren’t behind her any more. Understand that women’s wariness and suspicion is not personal, so don’t be offended. Women have no way of knowing you are not a threat.

Never make comments, even if you think it’s a compliment. It’s intimidating to a woman on her own. Stay quiet. If you see friends or family members making disrespectful comments to a woman, challenge them and explain why it’s not OK. We need to break the cycle of misogyny that contributes to women feeling unsafe. Show younger men what it looks like to listen to women. Talk to them about what harassment is. Help them understand why a comment they think may be harmless can terrorise women. If you notice a woman being harassed, show your support – it can be as simple as standing between a woman and the harasser.

Finally, share these tips to all the men you know. The more we educate men, the safer women will feel. Nothing I have written above is onerous or difficult. We can all play our part in ensuring the future world is safer for women – the potential gains are enormous and the cost of achieving it is so low.

Calling all men: this is what we can do to help women feel safe exercising in the dark | Chris Boardman

We have to break the cycle of misogyny that makes women feel at risk: This Girl Can’s guide sets out steps you can take, says Chris Boardman of Sport England

www.theguardian.com

I have no love whatsoever for men who treat women like shit, and most especially men who physically attack women, but geez this seems ridiculous.

If I'm attracted to a woman because she's fit, I'm objectifying her.

If I'm not attracted to a woman because she's obese, I'm shallow.

If I approach a woman and she's attracted to me, then all is good. But if she's not attracted to me, then I'm being creepy and inappropriate.

If I don't approach a woman, then I'm not man enough to be her woman.

Now I'm not even allowed to walk down the street minding my own business without fretting over whatever assumptions that random women might make about me.

As a man I'm deemed to be creepy by default, unless I go out of my way to make women feel more comfortable in their imaginations. That point of view is rooted in modern feminist bigotry, not reality.

It shouldn't be my job as a man to prove that I'm not a threat, when I'm doing nothing other than existing at the wrong time & place.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

I have no love whatsoever for men who treat women like shit, and most especially men who physically attack women, but geez this seems ridiculous.

If I'm attracted to a woman because she's fit, I'm objectifying her.

If I'm not attracted to a woman because she's obese, I'm shallow.

If I approach a woman and she's attracted to me, then all is good. But if she's not attracted to me, then I'm being creepy and inappropriate.

If I don't approach a woman, then I'm not man enough to be her woman.

Now I'm not even allowed to walk down the street minding my own business without fretting over whatever assumptions that random women might make about me.

As a man I'm deemed to be creepy by default, unless I go out of my way to make women feel more comfortable in their imaginations. That point of view is rooted in modern feminist bigotry, not reality.

It shouldn't be my job as a man to prove that I'm not a threat, when I'm doing nothing other than existing at the wrong time & place.

It's the new Progressivism - whether you are right/wrong/good/bad depends more on your social status in the Progressive Stack than on your actions. You're white, male, and heterosexual, so you are racist, sexist and homophobic. You must be, because you benefit from the privilege of a racist, patriarchal, heteronormative society. QED.

 

[Binary_Digit]

It's the new Progressivism - whether you are right/wrong/good/bad depends more on your social status in the Progressive Stack than on your actions. You're white, male, and heterosexual, so you are racist, sexist and homophobic. You must be, because you benefit from the privilege of a racist, patriarchal, heteronormative society. QED.

It's rightly considered racist to assume someone might be a threat simply because they're black. Along the same lines, it should be considered sexist for a woman to assume I'm a threat simply because I'm a man.

 

[Phys251]

It's rightly considered racist to assume someone might be a threat simply because they're black.

Correct.

Along the same lines,

No. It's not the same lines. There is a long history of violence by men against women.

it should be considered sexist for a woman to assume I'm a threat simply because I'm a man.

Misleading and wrong.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

It's rightly considered racist to assume someone might be a threat simply because they're black. Along the same lines, it should be considered sexist for a woman to assume I'm a threat simply because I'm a man.

I don't care either way.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

If you're arguing that there are women who have made unreasonable claims about being threatened, then I agree with you. Here's one well known example:



However, it's perfectly reasonable to feel threatened when approached or followed by a stranger while jogging around at night, especially in a secluded area. Obviously chance encounters happen, like if two people happen to be heading in the same direction. Unfortunately, someone is not going to be able to easily tell the difference between a stalker and someone who just happens to be heading in the same direction as you. I think the things the OP mentioned are pretty simple and reasonable ways we can prevent women from feeling unsafe when these chance encounters do happen.

Cooper was actually legitimately threatened by a stranger.

And the OP article is not about “jogging in the dark”.

 

[Binary_Digit]

No. It's not the same lines. There is a long history of violence by men against women.

Misleading and wrong.

1. History is not my fault. I don't want to be judged based on what others have done, and I'm pretty sure nobody else does either.
2. The small minority of men who attack women in dark alleys are vastly outnumbered by those of us who would throw ourselves into harm's way to protect a woman in need. I don't appreciate being lumped together with the small minority of assholes until I somehow prove myself to not be one of them. That's exactly what bigotry looks like.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Blaming the victim, check.

Victims often do put themselves in dumb positions and that results in them becoming victims. We don’t have to pretend this is untrue.

Equivocation between violence against women and violence against men, check.

Why can’t that be equal? Do you believe men and women are not equal?