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California Wildfire Deadliest In State's History

Herkamer63

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It's hard to believe no one is talking about this story because it's been in the news every day.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/apos-please-don-apos-t-185532688.html

One solution I can think of is to prevent a lot of this from happening all the time is, at least, chop down dead trees and remove dead wood. I would even say lift some of the environmental regulations and chop down some trees that are near homes and places of business so those places don't burn down. Whether it be something natural or caused by a person(s), something needs done to ensure people are safe. I get the whole "preserving" aspect with a forest, but 40+ people dead and potentially rising, and no action being taken, is unacceptable. I hope everyone reading this who do live in California are safe and can get through this.
 

Tom Horn

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It's hard to believe no one is talking about this story because it's been in the news every day.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/apos-please-don-apos-t-185532688.html

One solution I can think of is to prevent a lot of this from happening all the time is, at least, chop down dead trees and remove dead wood. I would even say lift some of the environmental regulations and chop down some trees that are near homes and places of business so those places don't burn down. Whether it be something natural or caused by a person(s), something needs done to ensure people are safe. I get the whole "preserving" aspect with a forest, but 40+ people dead and potentially rising, and no action being taken, is unacceptable. I hope everyone reading this who do live in California are safe and can get through this.
No. It’s not. There were a series of 10 Needash festivals where the lodgings were set on fire and the inhabitants were shot when they tried to escape. So, you are wrong. Again.
 

Herkamer63

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No. It’s not. There were a series of 10 Needash festivals where the lodgings were set on fire and the inhabitants were shot when they tried to escape. So, you are wrong. Again.

I don't know if you're joking or if you're serious and you think I'm an environmentalist because I'm not. Nor do I believe in man made climate change. All I'm pointing out is there are too many environmental regulations where, I believe, more trees and wood, especially dead ones, need to be taken out to prevent this stuff, whether it be nature or man that causes it. For the governor of California to sit there and blame climate change and climate change deniers does nothing to solve the problem. Again, I get the whole "preserving" aspect, but a lot of it doesn't need to be preserved. To be fully honest, if you to put blame on something, put it on these environmentalist groups and government regulations. That's where THE problems are, and if I were an elected official, I would pull back these regulations and fight against environmentalist groups that oppose it, push to have lumberjack companies go in and take care of this problem. Not only it would reduce the amount of wildfires happening, but it could, potentially, help people get jobs and less government regulations. It's a win-win for California. So I hope you see, if you're serious, that this is a teachable moment. But I still hope you're joking.
 

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It's hard to believe no one is talking about this story because it's been in the news every day.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/apos-please-don-apos-t-185532688.html

One solution I can think of is to prevent a lot of this from happening all the time is, at least, chop down dead trees and remove dead wood. I would even say lift some of the environmental regulations and chop down some trees that are near homes and places of business so those places don't burn down. Whether it be something natural or caused by a person(s), something needs done to ensure people are safe. I get the whole "preserving" aspect with a forest, but 40+ people dead and potentially rising, and no action being taken, is unacceptable. I hope everyone reading this who do live in California are safe and can get through this.

I can't imagine the bubble you must be living in to imagine that this isn't being talked about. For one, the effort required to remove all the tinder in our parks and forests would require more manpower and resources than a Manhattan Project every year. Second, it's already law that property must be maintained in order to remove tinder for up to a quarter mile, which itself is fairly meaningless when the Santa Ana winds are taken into account.
 

Tom Horn

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I don't know if you're joking or if you're serious and you think I'm an environmentalist because I'm not. Nor do I believe in man made climate change. All I'm pointing out is there are too many environmental regulations where, I believe, more trees and wood, especially dead ones, need to be taken out to prevent this stuff, whether it be nature or man that causes it. For the governor of California to sit there and blame climate change and climate change deniers does nothing to solve the problem. Again, I get the whole "preserving" aspect, but a lot of it doesn't need to be preserved. To be fully honest, if you to put blame on something, put it on these environmentalist groups and government regulations. That's where THE problems are, and if I were an elected official, I would pull back these regulations and fight against environmentalist groups that oppose it, push to have lumberjack companies go in and take care of this problem. Not only it would reduce the amount of wildfires happening, but it could, potentially, help people get jobs and less government regulations. It's a win-win for California. So I hope you see, if you're serious, that this is a teachable moment. But I still hope you're joking.
im not joking. For ten years I’ve been publicly advocating they import CBM water and clean it up enough to use for non potable water. Finally after eight years they’ve selected certain Texas wells to receive their production water from. They’re late to the table. These fires are God’s payback to Californians. Plain and simple. Just like the hurricanes here and the tsunamis in Asia, death rides a pale horse.
 

Herkamer63

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I can't imagine the bubble you must be living in to imagine that this isn't being talked about. For one, the effort required to remove all the tinder in our parks and forests would require more manpower and resources than a Manhattan Project every year. Second, it's already law that property must be maintained in order to remove tinder for up to a quarter mile, which itself is fairly meaningless when the Santa Ana winds are taken into account.

No, actually it wouldn't take as much manpower as what you would think. If you take out the wood that are either dead or near homes (or both in some cases) the winds wouldn't matter much at all. Wildfires may still happen if what I suggested is done, but the size and damage of them would not be anywhere near as catastrophic. The whole point is here is to contain and put them out much faster. And you're correct in saying that law IS a problem. It needs changed over there so people can be more safe. That's why I suggested that some environmental laws NEED to be changed. They're putting more people at risk than preserving the forest. Believe or not, we do NOT have control of the weather, so if a lightning strike hits a heavily wooded area and sets some trees on fire, living or dead, the chances of a wildfire are high and we can't redirect that bolt away from that area so that it doesn't happen.

So how do you reduce the chances of that happening? You have to clear out trees, at least near populated areas. Residential, business, roads, wherever people are they need to chop those trees down. In other words, screw these environmentalist whack jobs that care more about a bloodthirsty bear than a person trying to make a living. California can't afford to keep this up forever. They lose money over it and people's homes or businesses are lost in the process. Throwing on more environmental regulations will only make it worse, so the government needs to lift many of these regulations and allow these lumberjack companies to go in to get the areas that are at the most risk. I don't see how the suggestions I put forward are unreasonable. The things that will happen here is jobs can be created within this line of work, much less of a government strangle hold, and wildfires wouldn't be anywhere near as bad, hence people will be safe and happy. Preservation can still be there, but at the same time safety for the people living in those areas are, and should be, a far higher priority. Woe is anyone offending these environmentalist whack jobs by cutting down some trees and clearing out areas that will save people from these horrible events.
 

Herkamer63

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im not joking. For ten years I’ve been publicly advocating they import CBM water and clean it up enough to use for non potable water. Finally after eight years they’ve selected certain Texas wells to receive their production water from. They’re late to the table. These fires are God’s payback to Californians. Plain and simple. Just like the hurricanes here and the tsunamis in Asia, death rides a pale horse.

Well I have no doubt God does play a role in this, so you've got a point there. But still, something can be done to prevent these fires from happening and this could be His way of saying that. We talk about safety and the solutions are there. The greater question is why, other than politics, don't the elected officials jump on this? Fill in the blank with your own answer, but that's what people should be asking and not demanding for more government regulations. But again, God is a good reason.
 

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It is being reported, and this isn't the time to squabble about why.
 

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It is being reported, and this isn't the time to squabble about why.


I hope in the aftermath we have the same kind of conversation about rebuilding in areas with higher risk of Forrest fires the same way we do after a hurricane and rebuilding flood prone areas
 

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I hope in the aftermath we have the same kind of conversation about rebuilding in areas with higher risk of Forrest fires the same way we do after a hurricane and rebuilding flood prone areas
At this point I'm actually wondering if it might be useful to blaze wide pathways in every forested area in California so there are always firebreaks everywhere, all the time.

Some good jobs in maintaining those, although even the grass could be an issue in the dry weather and if they were just dirt it'd erode and/or be very muddy.


Probably not a feasible idea.

Maybe around every forested area?

Like...every road has wide areas deforested near it to prevent fire from crossing it?
 

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In 2009, Victoria Australia had the worst bushfires ever. It is commonly referred to as Black Saturday. Hundreds of people died and thousands of homes destroyed. Noone tweeted threats at the government and all political parties united to mourn the deceased and help the survivors. A royal commission was held to find out what happened and to set up a plan to prevent a similar tragedy from happening.

Right now the people of California need to be helped - not attacked via twitter.

A full investigation is warranted.
 

DiAnna

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At this point I'm actually wondering if it might be useful to blaze wide pathways in every forested area in California so there are always firebreaks everywhere, all the time.

Some good jobs in maintaining those, although even the grass could be an issue in the dry weather and if they were just dirt it'd erode and/or be very muddy.


Probably not a feasible idea.

Maybe around every forested area?

Like...every road has wide areas deforested near it to prevent fire from crossing it?

Santa Ana Winds are hurricane strength, zero humidity and can cause a firestorm to jump an eight-lane freeway... or even 6 8-lane freeways back-to-back... without hesitation. Unless one has lived in areas where these winds come through every fall, one cannot even fathom the speed of a raging wildfire; to create a crisscross of firebreaks that could even slow that kind of wind-whipped fire would require hundreds of thousands, if not millions of actual acres. Then there's the fact that California is not flat; it is bordered by eastern and western foothills and mountains, with steep canyons inaccessible to any land vehicle.

It's brutal, but it only used to happen at catastrophic wind/fire speeds every decade or so; now it's several times a year, because November is now drier and hotter than it's been in modern history.

This hits close to home; 100 miles north of me. I predict nearly 300 deaths before all victim remains are found in burned-out vehicles, and nearly 7,000 burned-out homes. Just tragic.
 

Unitedwestand13

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Santa Ana Winds are hurricane strength, zero humidity and can cause a firestorm to jump an eight-lane freeway... or even 6 8-lane freeways back-to-back... without hesitation. Unless one has lived in areas where these winds come through every fall, one cannot even fathom the speed of a raging wildfire; to create a crisscross of firebreaks that could even slow that kind of wind-whipped fire would require hundreds of thousands, if not millions of actual acres. Then there's the fact that California is not flat; it is bordered by eastern and western foothills and mountains, with steep canyons inaccessible to any land vehicle.

It's brutal, but it only used to happen at catastrophic wind/fire speeds every decade or so; now it's several times a year, because November is now drier and hotter than it's been in modern history.

This hits close to home; 100 miles north of me. I predict nearly 300 deaths before all victim remains are found. Just tragic.

And yet some people seem to only care about using California as a political punching bag.
 

DiAnna

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In 2009, Victoria Australia had the worst bushfires ever. It is commonly referred to as Black Saturday. Hundreds of people died and thousands of homes destroyed. Noone tweeted threats at the government and all political parties united to mourn the deceased and help the survivors. A royal commission was held to find out what happened and to set up a plan to prevent a similar tragedy from happening.

Right now the people of California need to be helped - not attacked via twitter.

A full investigation is warranted.

I remember that. A horrific national tragedy of immense proportion. My condolences, once again, to the Australian people, who will most certainly never forget that deadly and heartbreaking day.
 

Fledermaus

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Santa Ana Winds are hurricane strength, zero humidity and can cause a firestorm to jump an eight-lane freeway... or even 6 8-lane freeways back-to-back... without hesitation. Unless one has lived in areas where these winds come through every fall, one cannot even fathom the speed of a raging wildfire; to create a crisscross of firebreaks that could even slow that kind of wind-whipped fire would require hundreds of thousands, if not millions of actual acres. Then there's the fact that California is not flat; it is bordered by eastern and western foothills and mountains, with steep canyons inaccessible to any land vehicle.

It's brutal, but it only used to happen at catastrophic wind/fire speeds every decade or so; now it's several times a year, because November is now drier and hotter than it's been in modern history.

This hits close to home; 100 miles north of me. I predict nearly 300 deaths before all victim remains are found in burned-out vehicles, and nearly 7,000 burned-out homes. Just tragic.

We evacuated during the 2007 fires. There have been others that followed. My wife is so sensitive to the smoke that BBQs have set her into a frenzy of checking cell phones for up to date fire data.... I tend to gauge where the fire started and the wind patterns to figure out whether it is time to prepare for the onslaught...
 

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It's hard to believe no one is talking about this story because it's been in the news every day.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/apos-please-don-apos-t-185532688.html

One solution I can think of is to prevent a lot of this from happening all the time is, at least, chop down dead trees and remove dead wood. I would even say lift some of the environmental regulations and chop down some trees that are near homes and places of business so those places don't burn down. Whether it be something natural or caused by a person(s), something needs done to ensure people are safe. I get the whole "preserving" aspect with a forest, but 40+ people dead and potentially rising, and no action being taken, is unacceptable. I hope everyone reading this who do live in California are safe and can get through this.

Not all of the damage is being done in timber areas. Some of the major CA fires this year occurred more in chaparral (brush), heavy grassland with mixed oak stands.

The urban interface issue is a major concern to wildland fire managers. In many cases once one house catches fire it becomes a house to house fire regardless of the wildfire. With dry conditions, high winds, available fuel, once a fire starts it is going to be difficult to stop.

The issue faced with fire agencies and elected officials is how to get individuals to Firewise their property. Some things can be worked through building codes as far as materials used in construction. It seems to be much harder to get people to reduce the fuels around their property. Especially when it is an existing home before any new codes are enacted.
 

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No, actually it wouldn't take as much manpower as what you would think. If you take out the wood that are either dead or near homes (or both in some cases) the winds wouldn't matter much at all. Wildfires may still happen if what I suggested is done, but the size and damage of them would not be anywhere near as catastrophic. The whole point is here is to contain and put them out much faster. And you're correct in saying that law IS a problem. It needs changed over there so people can be more safe. That's why I suggested that some environmental laws NEED to be changed. They're putting more people at risk than preserving the forest. Believe or not, we do NOT have control of the weather, so if a lightning strike hits a heavily wooded area and sets some trees on fire, living or dead, the chances of a wildfire are high and we can't redirect that bolt away from that area so that it doesn't happen.

So how do you reduce the chances of that happening? You have to clear out trees, at least near populated areas. Residential, business, roads, wherever people are they need to chop those trees down. In other words, screw these environmentalist whack jobs that care more about a bloodthirsty bear than a person trying to make a living. California can't afford to keep this up forever. They lose money over it and people's homes or businesses are lost in the process. Throwing on more environmental regulations will only make it worse, so the government needs to lift many of these regulations and allow these lumberjack companies to go in to get the areas that are at the most risk. I don't see how the suggestions I put forward are unreasonable. The things that will happen here is jobs can be created within this line of work, much less of a government strangle hold, and wildfires wouldn't be anywhere near as bad, hence people will be safe and happy. Preservation can still be there, but at the same time safety for the people living in those areas are, and should be, a far higher priority. Woe is anyone offending these environmentalist whack jobs by cutting down some trees and clearing out areas that will save people from these horrible events.

You do realize that some of the destructive fires that have occurred in the past few years were not in timber. Some of the fires around Napa, CA were more of a grass/brush fuel.
Many of the southern CA fires are chaparral fields. If you remove the chaparral you invite mud slides. So what cover would you recommend. Part of the problem is the housing density in fire prone vegetation regimes. Some homes are build without much thought to fire resistant materials.

It is one thing to expect a State or Federal govt. to do fuel reduction on the land they own. It is quite another to expect the "Govt" to demand a private citizen to reduce fuel on their private land. Some private citizens take Firewise seriously. Some don't.
 

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I hope in the aftermath we have the same kind of conversation about rebuilding in areas with higher risk of Forrest fires the same way we do after a hurricane and rebuilding flood prone areas

and tornadoes and earthquakes and all the rest
 

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You know what should NOT be done after the California wildfire? To withhold federal payments! I mean, the state and its residences is already going through a rough road, they surely don't need this right now. They need support especially in rebuilding their homes once all these is over.
 
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