Don't Tase Me Bro
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Could California become the first state in the nation to do away with welfare?
That doomsday scenario is on the table as lawmakers wrestle with a staggering $24.3 billion budget deficit.
County welfare directors are "in shock" at the very idea of getting rid of CalWORKs, which has been widely viewed as one of the most successful social programs in the state's history, said Bruce Wagstaff, director of the Department of Human Assistance in Sacramento.
"It's difficult to come up with the right adjective to react to this," Wagstaff said. "It would be devastating to the people we serve."
McClatchy
Could the flat tax come to California?
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said today that he would like to see such “radical” proposals come out of a commission now studying an overhaul of the state’s tax system. The governor told the editorial board of the Sacramento Bee that he hoped the commission would not be afraid to propose something like “a 15% straight tax.”
“That’s the kind of radical, daring kind of a proposal that I want to see on the table so we can look at it and say, ‘Oh, let’s study this, maybe that is the way to go,’ ” Schwarzenegger said during the discussion, which was webcast.
The current system, based on highly unstable income tax revenue that fluctuates with the economy, “doesn’t work,” Schwarzenegger said.
Los Angeles Times
A flat tax isn't a bad idea either. Several of the Eastern Bloc nations that were once part of the Soviet Union or controlled by Communist governments have gone to a flat tax and their economies have boomed ever since.
The countries of Eastern Europe aren't in economic straits because of the flat tax, but because their debt is euro-denominated while their local currencies have plunged against the Euro.Flat tax nations in Europe are the worst off at the moment. Their whole economy is at near collapse due to lack of funds and their growth has all but vanished due to the drying up of credit. Some of those very countries are talking up to a 25% drop in GDP because of the crisis.
The countries of Eastern Europe aren't in economic straits because of the flat tax, but because their debt is euro-denominated while their local currencies have plunged against the Euro.
This means countries with flat tax are now getting hit by a double wammy so to say. Not only are their relative tax income much lower compared to a progressive tax system, but they are now forced to use what they have to repay said loans and that leaves very little for things like wages for their employees and paying the lighting bill.
Get a grip. There's no swipe against the euro here. It's simple fact.As for your swipe against the Euro.. what should they have done.. gotten loans in Dollars.. that would have been reallllly smart too right? Not that it would have mattered since it was the collapse of the credit market that ultimately got them into the huge trouble and not what currency they loaned in.
There's just a single whammy--the staggering amount of foreign euro-denominated debt.
Get a grip. There's no swipe against the euro here. It's simple fact.
Eastern Europe's foreign debt is denominated in euros (or occasionally Swiss francs), while the local currencies have fallen relative to the Euro, which amounts to an increase in the overall debt. In countries like Latvia, which are in ERM II and peg their currency to a narrow trading band to the Euro, they are being slowly ground down by the various fiscal measures necessary to prop up their currency when the organic economic forces are pushing the currency down. Either way, the end result is the same: foreign-denominated debt is turning into a huge and nearly crippling burden for Eastern Europe.
LOL you should stop listening to Forbes and his crew. Flat tax is a horrible idea and will only benefit the rich.. who funny enough are the ones proposing such idiotic policy. Do the math and you will understand how flat tax hurts the low wage earners much more than it does the multi millionaires proposing such policies.
Flat tax nations in Europe are the worst off at the moment. Their whole economy is at near collapse due to lack of funds and their growth has all but vanished due to the drying up of credit. Some of those very countries are talking up to a 25% drop in GDP because of the crisis.
As for completely eliminate welfare.. move to Somalia and see how that is. Countries without any safety net rank as some of the poorest and worst off on the planet. It is a egotists dream, and all are basicly ruled by the gun and the rich. Is that how you vision your country?
I guess the people they serve will just have to try harder to take care of themselves like they should be in the first place. As for those that literally can't because of a true disability or condition, the Feds are still there to provide support and their families will have to step up their own support. California's astronomical debt is partly due to their overly generous spending on the welfare state in the first place.
A flat tax isn't a bad idea either. Several of the Eastern Bloc nations that were once part of the Soviet Union or controlled by Communist governments have gone to a flat tax and their economies have boomed ever since. 15% seems rather high, however, for a state, so I would have to think this flat tax would replace more than just the state income tax.
One thing is for certain. California can no longer function the way it is today and the people there had better get it through their heads. Ironically, this budget crisis might be the best that ever happened to them. I do have my doubts, however, that either of the above will actually come to fruition.
I'd read the Fair Tax book anyway, whether you agree with the premise or not it is a good read, I agree with you that it has little chance of being implemented for two reasons, one, as you mentioned the IRS doesn't want to give up it's power, and also the CPA lobby enjoys the easy way of "big hitting" around April 15, i.e., the bulk of their incomes comes between Jan.-Apr. with late filers allowing them to basically coast the rest of the year, with a flat tax these CPAs would actually have to find employment with companies and *gasp* work year round like the rest of us. I'll say this though, the fair tax is so simple it's brilliant.I've not studied much on "flat tax" or "fair tax" or whatever it's called. Mainly because I just don't see it having a realistic chance at ever seeing the light of day. Not because it is or isn't a good idea, but because the IRS is too much of an institution and will probably not go away in my life time.
The idea is to implement the tax first, it is weighted to provide sufficient operating funds for existing programs with the idea of weening the government off of spending and waste in an economically viable timeframe, the concept involves a trimming effect on overspending, forcing programs to lean down through the natural progression of legislative law, not by shock and awe economic leveragingWouldn't it generate less revenue for government? And I'm not saying this is bad because it will force government to cut waste, but couldn't it also threaten to cripple many programs? Especially during troubled times when people just aren't buying?
Most fair minded conservatives would state that we have too many entitlements, but we have so much at the moment that immediate elimination would damage the economy past the benefit of the reductions, many of us advocate a strategic roll back of programs to what is necessary, but to eliminate the fat, we would use a scalpel, not a hatchet.And I don't think California will ever just turn off welfare. As has been pointed out, the state would erupt in riots.
I agree, but I would also commend those that put their position at risk to do what needs to be done towards solvency.It would have to be a multi-year, progressive reduction in benefits. If even then. I think you see a turnover in legislators who would fight the plan.
Do you have any links or FACTS to back up your assertions?
Flat tax is a horrible idea and will only benefit the rich
Flat tax nations in Europe are the worst off at the moment
It is a egotists dream, and all are basicly ruled by the gun and the rich
First off, where can I get some debt denominated in Latin Strippers--sounds like my kind of currency!:2razz:If it is not a swipe against the euro, then why mention it at all? It has zero relevance if the debt is in dollars, swiss franc, yen, bananas or hot latin strippers. The fact remains regardless of the currency they borrowed in, they are now screwed because of the credit crisis. They cant get new loans or refinance their existing loans regardless if it is Euros, Dollars or latin strippers.
Ok, so you're just miffed that I dared mention the Euro and are spewing because you don't like the flat tax. Economics and finance are of no relevance to your position.They will have to draw down on their currency reserves to pay back their debts and that is gonna hurt their domestic spending because they cant buy crap from other countries. This in turn means that they are much more dependant on tax income to finance even basic things, and since they have a flat tax system in an economy that is flat-lining, then yes it is a double whammy.
And yet, before the saftey net, the US was the richest and best off in world. How is that?As for completely eliminate welfare.. move to Somalia and see how that is. Countries without any safety net rank as some of the poorest and worst off on the planet.
False premise -- eliminating the welfare state in no way eliminates all the other laws.It is a egotists dream, and all are basicly ruled by the gun and the rich.
It all comes back to this argument. PeteEU is arguing that because the nations that have Flat Tax are doing the worst, that Flat Tax must be the reason. Unfortunately for PeteEU, you can't just demonstrate correlation and imply causation. He needs to prove that the Flat Tax is the reason for those nations doing so poorly. Until he does that, all you need to say is "Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc."
California cant elimate welfare. The Democrats voter base would dry up, along with the Mexican vote.
California cant elimate welfare. The Democrats voter base would dry up, along with the Mexican vote.
Although, it would be sweet poetic justice to hear Democrats have to come to terms with their ridiculous notion that the government can provide all aspects of daily life on the taxpayer's dime. For them to totally reject that, would be a day of revolution in this country.
80 years of welfare reform, down the tubes and finally admitted to being worthless and bad policy. That would be a sweet day. :thumbs:
you might be in the running for the most censorship in one postHOLY ****! Holy ****ing ****! California, gettign rid of welfare? Where the **** did that come from? California? THE California? The biggest whining hippy-liberal state in the union? THAT california? What the ****. If it wasn't for the fact I think that's a good idea, that'd scare the ****ing **** outta me.
Holy CRAP! Who the hell could have seen this coming?
1920 Conservativism is making a come back, and oh what a come back it is. California ya'll. It's in ****ING CALIFORNIA. Holy crap!
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