• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

CA cops shoot Air Force security officer

scottyz

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
1,575
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Moderate
The FBI is investigating possible civil rights violations in connection with home video of a California deputy shooting an Air Force security officer back from Iraq who appeared to be obeying his commands, according to a Local 6 News report.

Officials said 21-year-old Senior Airman Elio Carrion had just returned from a tour of duty in Iraq and was a passenger in a Corvette that was involved in a chase and crash.

The 40-second video shows Carrion cowering next to the Corvette after the crash with the deputy standing over him.

An amateur photographer said he began shooting the video after the Corvette crashed into a wall.

"I'm in the military, OK," Carrion can be heard saying on the home video. "Believe me."

The deputy said, "Get up, get up."

"OK, I'm getting up," Carrion responded.

The deputy then fired several shots at Carrion seconds later for no apparent reason.
The Air Force officer was hospitalized late Tuesday with wounds to his chest, ribs and leg, relatives told a TV station in Los Angeles.

Carrion does not face any charges in connection with the incident.
http://www.local6.com/news/6652276/detail.html

This guy was supposedly following all the cops orders and the cop still shot at him. I think cops are rather out of control these days. I'm guessing even if this cop ends up having killed this man for no reason he will still get let off easy.
 

cnredd

Major General Big Lug
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Messages
8,682
Reaction score
262
Location
Philadelphia,PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
who appeared to be obeying his commands...

appeared...Instant replay on TV shows three angles where the receiver appeared to catch the ball...but a fourth angle shows clearly he did not...

The deputy then fired several shots at Carrion seconds later for no apparent reason...

apparent...which means there could be a reason not shown definitively in the video...

Any testimony or explanation from the officer or his superiors in the article?...Nope...Just accusations from a third party...

You can think cops are "out of control these days" until you turn blue...

But relying on half-assed articles with one-sided reporting ain't gonna sway me...

Once again...The officer is guilty until proven innocent...

Must be a day that ends in "y"...:shrug:
 

scottyz

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
1,575
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Moderate
cnredd said:
who appeared to be obeying his commands...

appeared...Instant replay on TV shows three angles where the receiver appeared to catch the ball...but a fourth angle shows clearly he did not...

The deputy then fired several shots at Carrion seconds later for no apparent reason...

apparent...which means there could be a reason not shown definitively in the video...
Why would a Air Force Security Officer give the cop a reason to shoot him?

Any testimony or explanation from the officer or his superiors in the article?...Nope...Just accusations from a third party...
Can you find any testimony from them?

You can think cops are "out of control these days" until you turn blue...

But relying on half-assed articles with one-sided reporting ain't gonna sway me...
Have a link to a better article you wish to share?
 

cnredd

Major General Big Lug
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Messages
8,682
Reaction score
262
Location
Philadelphia,PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
scottyz said:
Why would a Air Force Security Officer give the cop a reason to shoot him?
YOU don't know...I don't know...The AUTHOR of the article doesn't know...

Until I get some facts, it's non-issue...


scottyz said:
Can you find any testimony from them?
Why should I, or anyone have to go sort through BS to find something legitimate, without knowing if it's even available?...

It's an article that's less than 24 hous old...Wait a few days and see if something with substance shows up...As of right now, this article is meant to portray outrage and conspiracy with a minimum of evidence...P!ss-poor reporting...

Now get the hook out of your mouth...you've been caught...


scottyz said:
Have a link to a better article you wish to share?
Don't need one...It's a non-issue until more facts are revealed...100 articles won't make it any better...
 

scottyz

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
1,575
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Moderate
So why bother replying?
 

cnredd

Major General Big Lug
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Messages
8,682
Reaction score
262
Location
Philadelphia,PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
scottyz said:
So why bother replying?
Forum members should understand that what they read superficially does not mean that what is implied is the reality of the situation...

In this case, I don't mind pointing that out...:shrug:

Would you rather have the forum members have the same opinion as you (I think cops are rather out of control these days.) based on an article that only shows one aspect of an event with multiple angles?...especially when the article does not confront them?...

You ask "So why bother replying?"...I'll trump that...

Why did you post an article with no explanations or evidence other than one video?...Did you expect similiar outrage based on p!ss-poor reporting and pre-mature conclusions?...What if, a week from now, new evidence shows up that totally debunks this article?...Will you retract your statements?...:confused:
 

scottyz

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
1,575
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Moderate
cnredd said:
You ask "So why bother replying?"...I'll trump that...

Why did you post an article with no explanations or evidence other than one video?...Did you expect similiar outrage based on p!ss-poor reporting and pre-mature conclusions?...What if, a week from now, new evidence shows up that totally debunks this article?...Will you retract your statements?...:confused:
So do you have a better article or what? A better video? By all means.. post it.

Retract my statement that cops are out of control?? I've felt they were out of control long before this occured. I think of Ruby Ridge, Waco and any of the numerous videos of cops beating on people who have already submitted to them.
 
Last edited:

cnredd

Major General Big Lug
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Messages
8,682
Reaction score
262
Location
Philadelphia,PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
scottyz said:
So do you have a better article or what? A better video? By all means.. post it.
As stated, the article is less than 24 hours old...I doubt new developments that made this take a 180 would be available...Investigations can last quite awhile...

Also, a determination might have already been made, or evidence contrary to the video already established, yet the media isn't privy to it...or they won't report it because it would be an admission that the current article was nothing but a jump to conclusions...

scottyz said:
Retract my statement that cops are out of control?? I've felt they were out of control long before this occured.
You used this article as an example of being "out of control"...irrelevant of the way you've felt for years, this is a horrible example of it...

IF there is no other evidence, or further evidence comes out that establishes the video to be 100% correct, it still doesn't take away from the fact that the article was pre-mature and/or lacking...I'm not saying the article is wrong...I'm saying the article sucks...

No statements...No alternative explanations...p!ss-poor...

This should tell you EVERYTHING you need to know...

The deputy, who was not named in the report, was placed on administrative leave while the FBI investigates the shooting.
If it's still being investigated, then why bother?...Anything that appears to have happened could be 100% wrong...Do I need to mention instant replays again?...:roll:
 
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
2,669
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
The video is kind of puzzeling. One one hand the man is saying, "Ok ok, I'm cooperating." On the other hand, he wouldn't stay down. He just kept standing up and defying the order to lie down.
 

cherokee

Devil Dog
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
7,486
Reaction score
789
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
cnredd said:
YOU don't know...I don't know...The AUTHOR of the article doesn't know...
Until I get some facts, it's non-issue...
..

That says it all...We have to wait
and see what the investigation uncovers…
 

Deegan

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
5,528
Reaction score
2
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
While it is true that we don't know all the facts, we do know this, cops in this region have been known to act inappropriately, and their reputation is one of trigger happy killers. I don't know that I believe this label, but I do realize that they have not helped themselves a lot here lately, just something to consider.
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
23,722
Reaction score
8,409
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
There is one truth here....San Bernadino and the military community do not have a strong relationship. Especially Marines. These Police Officers tend to come down stronger on the military and in turn encourage hostilities. I know a former MSgt (22 years in the Corps) who is a cop out in the Palm Springs area and he constantly has to get between Marines and Police Officers. I don't know why or where this came from, because we do not have this problem anywhere else. On the contrary, relationships in other places is beyond simple friendship. The video was pretty incriminating. I can imagine the rift from this in the San Bernadino area.

This cop is going to face an inevitable defeat for three reasons...

1) Of course, the racial aspect will be blown sky high.

2) He shot a service member who was down.

3) That service member is an AP (Air Force Police or Security Officer).
 
Last edited:

Scarecrow Akhbar

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Messages
11,430
Reaction score
2,282
Location
Los Angeles
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
So what's wrong with treating cops as a prime example of what the liberals mean when some people shouldn't be trusted with guns?

In Santa Monica, a bag lady threatens a couple of bicycle cops with a screwdriver when they attempt to impound her stolen shopping cart. Two twenty-something cops felt they had to unload their weapons into a fifty year-old crazy woman with a screwdriver.

What's his name, Louisa Alma(?) is raped in a NYPD police station by cops using a broom handle. Took a while to break the code of silence on that one.

Sheriff deputies in charge of the Men's County Jail in Los Angeles were taking accused child molesters (accused) and forcing them to fight with other inmates.

Sometimes a good stiff is well deserved. Rodney King, for example. But enough incidents happen that one has to ignore the uniform on the tape and watch the events. As shown, there's no reason to assume the guy with the gun had a reason to fire it.

Remember, cops aren't the good guys. Most cops are the guys that could barely get through highschool and they became cops because they like beating people up, but have to hide behind a badge.
 

scottyz

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
1,575
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Moderate
At one point, a voice on the tape appears to say "Stay on the ground." A moment later, however, the deputy appears to tell Carrion: "Get up, get up."

"I'm going to get up," Carrion replied as he began to rise from a crouch. As he did so, the deputy, who was standing a few feet away, fired multiple rounds.
The deputy can be heard shouting repeated profanities at Carrion, calling him a "punk" and telling him to "shut up."

At one point, the deputy kicks at Carrion, but it is unclear whether he makes contact.

On the tape, Carrion can be heard telling the deputy, "I'm here on your side. All right? I'm here to tell you.... We're here on your side." In the background, yelling can be heard, and Carrion appears to yell at the driver to be quiet.

"We mean you no harm ... all right?" said Carrion, who also interspersed his statements with profanity. "I served more time than you in the ... police, in the ... military, OK?"

After the shooting, Carrion can be heard moaning in pain as the deputy shouts -- apparently into a radio -- "Shots fired! Shots fired!" He then shouts: "Shut the ... up!" several times.

Someone in the background says, "You told him to get up!" The deputy tells the unidentified person, "Shut ... up!"
http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=28342

So it sort of sounds like one deputy tells him to stay down and one tells him to get up.
 
Top Bottom