By Constitution, USA is a country of Christianity!

[Master PO]

Just what are you advocating then? "i am not making the augment that were created as a christian nation...but it was founded by Christians. "

What damn difference does it make what religion or beliefs that anyone has or did? Those same founders of this country had other beliefs as well, so are we to put worth on those beliefs as well? The founders though they did great things for this country they were just people with their own lives that they lived. The founders were not prophets are religious figures that spoke the holy gospel. They were just ordinary people.

well they were Christians, most of them, not all.

its a matter of truth to me, many want to say they were not Christians, ..but they were, the Constitution is not a christian document...it was not meant to be..... because it ONLY setup the structure of the government and defines there role, it does not speak of spiritual things.

my last post was just to prove that quotes are not always real when trying to prove a point, as i proved about the Jefferson quote..you will note it comes from ----->the Jefferson Monticello .

the second one stated Paine believes in god, he just does not believe institutionalized national church's.

the last again just states in the document ,that the u.s. (government) is not founded on religion, and it is not, its only 5 simple pages.....and that is the correct number 5.

 

[Electric Eye]

its a matter of truth to me, many want to say they were not Christians, ..but they were, the Constitution is not a christian document...it was not meant to be..... because it ONLY setup the structure of the government and defines there role, it does not speak of spiritual things.

Precisely. Many of the founders were Christians, but a few were not. But this doesn't mean that they intended to set up a theocracy. Thomas Jefferson was likely a deist who only followed the teachings of Jesus as a philosopher, and he wrote the Declaration of Independence; does this make it a deist document? No. The Constitution brought to fruition the Enlightenment ideals of reason and liberty, and it intentionally protected such a religiously diverse population from the tyranny of the majority. It wasn't until around the 1970s that all Christian groups considered themselves to be a part of one large religious group; before then, they were Baptists, Methodists, Quakers, Catholics, etc. Each considered itself a very different belief system, and so it's very unlikely that the founders, coming from many of these different groups, thought of themselves as establishing a government under the unified banner of one religion.

 

[Visbek]

Apologies for a long quote and in the highly unlikely event someone has introduced this already...

If you want to read a Constitution that definitely has a religious component, read the 2005 Iraqi Constitutuion.:

PREAMBLE

In the name of God, the most merciful, the most compassionate

We have honored the sons of Adam.

We are the people of the land between two rivers, the homeland of the apostles and prophets, abode of the virtuous imams, pioneers of civilization, crafters of writing and cradle of numeration. Upon our land the first law made by man was passed, the most ancient just pact for homelands policy was inscribed, and upon our soil, companions of the Prophet and saints prayed, philosophers and scientists theorized and writers and poets excelled.

Acknowledging God's right over us, and in fulfillment of the call of our homeland and citizens, and in response to the call of our religious and national leaderships and the determination of our great (religious) authorities and of our leaders and reformers, and in the midst of an international support from our friends and those who love us, marched for the first time in our history toward the ballot boxes by the millions, men and women, young and old, on the thirtieth of January two thousand and five, invoking the pains of sectarian oppression sufferings inflicted by the autocratic clique and inspired by the tragedies of Iraq's martyrs, Shiite and Sunni, Arabs and Kurds and Turkmen and from all the other components of the people and recollecting the darkness of the ravage of the holy cities and the South in the Sha'abaniyya uprising and burnt by the flames of grief of the mass graves, the marshes, Al-Dujail and others and articulating the sufferings of racial oppression in the massacres of Halabcha, Barzan, Anfal and the Fayli Kurds and inspired by the ordeals of the Turkmen in Basheer and as is the case in the remaining areas of Iraq where the people of the west suffered from the assassinations of their leaders, symbols and elderly and from the displacement of their skilled individuals and from the drying out of their cultural and intellectual wells, so we sought hand in hand and shoulder to shoulder to create our new Iraq, the Iraq of the future free from sectarianism, racism, locality complex, discrimination and exclusion....


SECTION ONE: FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES

Article 2:

First: Islam is the official religion of the State and it is a fundamental source of legislation:

A. No law that contradicts the established provisions of Islam may be established.

B. No law that contradicts the principles of democracy may be established.

C. No law that contradicts the rights and basic freedoms stipulated in this constitution may be established.

Second: This Constitution guarantees the Islamic identity of the majority of the Iraqi people and guarantees the full religious rights of all individuals to freedom of religious belief and practice such as Christians, Yazedis, and Mandi Sabeans.​

THAT is what you do when you want to establish a republic with definite foundation in a religion: You make explicit references to religious principles.

The only element of the quoted text which has even a passable similarity to the US Constitution is the last bit, about guaranteeing religious freedom. Even that is an inverse of the US Constitution, which is phrased as a limitation on government rather than a guarantee of freedom.

 

[American]

Admittedly this guy was a bit eccentric, but he was a huge Republican and anti-slavery advocate.

 

[Bezukhov]

And now will someone show me where Jesus or any of the writers of the New Testament gave explicit instructions to set up any "Christian Nations"? Where in the Bible do we find the word "Constitution"? If it was soooo important that "Christian" Nations" be set up why didn't Jesus start one while He was here?

 

[clownboy]

And now will someone show me where Jesus or any of the writers of the New Testament gave explicit instructions to set up any "Christian Nations"? Where in the Bible do we find the word "Constitution"? If it was soooo important that "Christian" Nations" be set up why didn't Jesus start one while He was here?

Jesus wrote none of the books, the gospels, included in the Bible. In fact it's debatable that any of the books of the Bible were written in the time of Christ.

 

[Bezukhov]

Jesus wrote none of the books, the gospels, included in the Bible. In fact it's debatable that any of the books of the Bible were written in the time of Christ.

I agree. I happen to be a devout Agnostic. I was just wondering if those who think this can give any scriptural proof for their beliefs.

 

[Gawain]

Precisely. Many of the founders were Christians, but a few were not. But this doesn't mean that they intended to set up a theocracy. Thomas Jefferson was likely a deist who only followed the teachings of Jesus as a philosopher, and he wrote the Declaration of Independence; does this make it a deist document? No. The Constitution brought to fruition the Enlightenment ideals of reason and liberty, and it intentionally protected such a religiously diverse population from the tyranny of the majority. It wasn't until around the 1970s that all Christian groups considered themselves to be a part of one large religious group; before then, they were Baptists, Methodists, Quakers, Catholics, etc. Each considered itself a very different belief system, and so it's very unlikely that the founders, coming from many of these different groups, thought of themselves as establishing a government under the unified banner of one religion.

Name one

No they were against a theocracy and thats as far as it went. No church of the US. All the rest is BS. They were worried about one sect of Christianity being raised above the others. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[Penrod]

With open words, The American Constitution so obliges this country:

All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation. (Article VI)

On the land called America, what bigger debt and engagement can anyone find to have been contracted and entered obliging this nation than what is stressed in the following?

The said States hereby severally enter into a firm league of friendship with each other, for their common defense, the security of their liberties, and their mutual and general welfare, binding themselves to assist each other, against all force offered to, or attacks made upon them, or any of them, on account of religion, sovereignty, trade, or any other pretense whatever.

This sacred contract term of debt and engagement can be exactly found in Article III, The Articles of Confederation.

Given that all signers of the Articles of Confederation are followers of Christianity, and given that all signers of the American Constitution are followers of Christianity, logic must allow the word religion found in the above quotation to mean nothing else but only the teaching of Christianity. Besides logic, indeed, religion, namely Christianity, is hereby indisputably listed as the number one account prior to anything else for all these Christian signers to enter a firm league, namely a firm government, to defend.

As quoted, with the bold expression on the unaltered inheritance of a sacred debt and engagement, the American Constitution must permanently oblige every citizen receiving her protection with the recognition of the supreme dominance of the Christian teaching in this nation, regardless of this citizen’s background, natural, ethnical, or cultural. Excuse can be given to no one who fails in such recognition. Any idea in contrast to this obligation, or action releasing anyone from this obligation, must be found unacceptable by the Constitution.

Most people dont understand that the Constitution is not our only founding document. For instance it means nothing without the DOI. The articles of Confederation and the Treaty of Paris are also founding documents

Also the constitution is signed and dated by the christian calendar. Only christian nations used that back then.

 

[tjelen]

How does acknowledging your past debts say anything about your beliefs? Also "binding themselves to assist each other, against all force offered to, or attacks made upon them, or any of them, on account of religion, sovereignty, trade, or any other pretense whatever." doesn't mean that a religion is being endorsed. ISIS has declared a holy war against the world and not every country has a state religion. Also the Articles of Confederation are irrelevant to the current workings of the government because the current constitution is superior the old one. Also what would happen to the good old non Christians like myself if we became a Christian country or the other Christian groups? Would we all become Catholic and the other religions destroyed? or Baptist, Methodist or what ever? Christians take more offense to other Christian groups than they do to other religions with the possible exception to Islam. Also back in those days, religion was a bigger deal than it is today. There were still religious wars going on among Christian nations.

 

[Grand Mal]

I agree. I happen to be a devout Agnostic. I was just wondering if those who think this can give any scriptural proof for their beliefs.

Seriously?