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Bush's big sin in Iraq: Acting uniliaterally?

M14 Shooter

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But what are we to make of Hillary's comments re: Iran?

In an address Wednesday evening at Princeton University, Clinton, D-N.Y., said it was a mistake for the U.S. to have Britain, France and Germany head up nuclear talks with Iran over the past 2 1/2 years. Last week, Iran resumed nuclear research in a move Tehran claims is for energy, not weapons.

"I believe that we lost critical time in dealing with Iran because the White House chose to downplay the threats and chose to outsource the negotiations," Clinton said
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,182159,00.html

I mean, I know the answer -- whatever Bush does is the wrong thing -- but...
 

Kandahar

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Bush's big sin in Iraq wasn't acting unilaterally. If that was all he did, he'd have my unequivocal support because I know how difficult it is to get the UNSC to agree on anything. No, Bush's big sin in Iraq was lying about the justification for the war and weakening the United States to the point where it may be politically impossible (or at least very difficult) to defend ourselves from real threats like Iran.
 

TimmyBoy

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Kandahar said:
Bush's big sin in Iraq wasn't acting unilaterally. If that was all he did, he'd have my unequivocal support because I know how difficult it is to get the UNSC to agree on anything. No, Bush's big sin in Iraq was lying about the justification for the war and weakening the United States to the point where it may be politically impossible (or at least very difficult) to defend ourselves from real threats like Iran.
Their is always a high price when one person in a position of public office trades away his integrity.
 
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Kandahar said:
Bush's big sin in Iraq wasn't acting unilaterally. If that was all he did, he'd have my unequivocal support because I know how difficult it is to get the UNSC to agree on anything. No, Bush's big sin in Iraq was lying about the justification for the war and weakening the United States to the point where it may be politically impossible (or at least very difficult) to defend ourselves from real threats like Iran.
I'm so sick of the "lying" lie.
 

aquapub

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If acting without the approval of retards who never learn from history is a sin, then stupidity and ineffectiveness must be a virtue. ;)
 

M14 Shooter

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Kandahar said:
Bush's big sin in Iraq wasn't acting unilaterally. If that was all he did, he'd have my unequivocal support because I know how difficult it is to get the UNSC to agree on anything. No, Bush's big sin in Iraq was lying about the justification for the war and weakening the United States to the point where it may be politically impossible (or at least very difficult) to defend ourselves from real threats like Iran.
I think you missed the irony.

And, I love the "Bush lied" lie. The bigger the lie and the more you repeat it...
 

Kandahar

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M14 Shooter said:
I think you missed the irony.
I guess I did. What irony?

M14 Shooter said:
And, I love the "Bush lied" lie. The bigger the lie and the more you repeat it...
Kinda like your lie that everyone in the US government and every other democratic government in the world believed that the WMD evidence was flawless and ironclad prior to the war. The more you repeat it...
 

Billo_Really

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Acting unilaterally was more than just a sin. It was illegal. We have no right running around the world forcing sovereign nations to do what we tell them to do without UN approval. That is visions of empire. Bush lied his ass off to get us into this illegal war and it is going to comeback to haunt him. This is just the beginning of the rise and fall of the Bush Reich.
 
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Billo_Really said:
Bush lied his ass off to get us into this illegal war and it is going to comeback to haunt him. This is just the beginning of the rise and fall of the Bush Reich.
Taken directly from MoveOn.Org. Nice job, billo. Just keep telling yourself this. In fact, shout it to the mountaintops. Red State America loves it.
 

GarzaUK

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KCConservative said:
Taken directly from MoveOn.Org. Nice job, billo. Just keep telling yourself this. In fact, shout it to the mountaintops. Red State America loves it.
I guess we will know in November 2006 elections eh? Since the spike for Bush approval ratings after the Iraq elections is gone, I wander if it's all downhill for Bush after this.

I do agree with you that the US is a conservative country tho.
 
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GarzaUK said:
I guess we will know in November 2006 elections eh? Since the spike for Bush approval ratings after the Iraq elections is gone, I wander if it's all downhill for Bush after this.

I do agree with you that the US is a conservative country tho.
I didn't know we were voting for a new president this November.
 

GarzaUK

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KCConservative said:
I didn't know we were voting for a new president this November.
Isn't their house elections this year? Senate or Congress, I'm not too sure. :confused:
 
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GarzaUK said:
Isn't their house elections this year? Senate or Congress, I'm not too sure. :confused:
Yes there are. What does this have to do with the Bush spike? Do you consider your president's approval rating when voting for your congressmen?
 

GarzaUK

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KCConservative said:
Yes there are. What does this have to do with the Bush spike? Do you consider your president's approval rating when voting for your congressmen?
I don't have a President or a Congress man. :doh I have a Member of Parliament if that's what you mean, but British politics is different to your politics. I would have thought dissillusioned swing voters that voted for Bush may vote Democrat this year, for the bad job he has done, not only in Iraq but in other areas.
 
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GarzaUK said:
I don't have a President or a Congress man. :doh I have a Member of Parliament if that's what you mean, but British politics is different to your politics. I would have thought dissillusioned swing voters that voted for Bush may vote Democrat this year, for the bad job he has done, not only in Iraq but in other areas.
As in punishing someone for the poor job of someone else? Interesting. When I vote, I consider the candidates themselves, not the ones already elected.
 

GarzaUK

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KCConservative said:
As in punishing someone for the poor job of someone else? Interesting. When I vote, I consider the candidates themselves, not the ones already elected.
The Labour Party suffered in our election last year because of Tony Blair.
 

Binary_Digit

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KCConservative said:
When I vote, I consider the candidates themselves, not the ones already elected.
That's terrific. Unfortunately, quite a number of people aren't that smart. :2razz:
 
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Binary_Digit said:
That's terrific. Unfortunately, quite a number of people aren't that smart. :2razz:
Fortunatley, Red State America is.
 

M14 Shooter

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Kandahar said:
I guess I did. What irony?
Where the same people that complain about out "unilateral" invasion of Iraq are now complaining that we arent acting "unilaterally" enough regarding Iran?

Kinda like your lie that everyone in the US government and every other democratic government in the world believed that the WMD evidence was flawless and ironclad prior to the war. The more you repeat it
Odd. I dont remember making that argument. Youre setting up a strawman.
 

Kandahar

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M14 Shooter said:
Where the same people that complain about out "unilateral" invasion of Iraq are now complaining that we arent acting "unilaterally" enough regarding Iran?
In my opinion the complaints against "unilateralism" in Iraq weren't really about unilateralism persay, but the way in which it was handled. For example, I have no problem with a president taking action to protect America that goes against what most of the world wants. I do have a problem, however, with a president bullying his allies into going along with him on an incredibly foolish war, then shunning the ones who won't.

In contrast, most of the democratic world is united against Iran. I don't see anything in those comments that suggests we aren't being unilateral enough; rather, it looks to me like complaints that we simply aren't involved in the process enough.

M14 Shooter said:
Odd. I dont remember making that argument. Youre setting up a strawman.
If you concede that there was a lot of skepticism about the WMD intelligence prior to the war, and that the claims have now been proven false (or at least highly dubious), then it's not a stretch to assume that the administration exaggerated the claims to justify a war that they obviously wanted to fight.

It's simply not logically possible to have slam-dunk evidence of WMDs, yet not know exactly where they are. And it would be an act of willful negligence not to anticipate their movement and keep track of them.
 

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Kandahar said:
In my opinion the complaints against "unilateralism" in Iraq weren't really about unilateralism persay, but the way in which it was handled.
They were precisely and unequivocally just that...........geez. To say otherwise no or to try and paint otherwise is absurd.

And that is just the point NOW Hillary complains that we went to other countries and listened to them, and consulted and acted with them instead of acting unilaterally.
 

Kandahar

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Stinger said:
They were precisely and unequivocally just that...........geez. To say otherwise no or to try and paint otherwise is absurd.

And that is just the point NOW Hillary complains that we went to other countries and listened to them, and consulted and acted with them instead of acting unilaterally.

Really? It looks to me like she was complaining that we haven't been involved in the process enough. Perhaps you could direct me to the comments where she claimed that the United States should deal with Iran without consulting or listening to our allies.
 

Billo_Really

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Originally Posted by KCConservative
Taken directly from MoveOn.Org. Nice job, billo. Just keep telling yourself this. In fact, shout it to the mountaintops. Red State America loves it.
I told you, I have not been to that website in almost a year now.
 
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Billo_Really said:
I told you, I have not been to that website in almost a year now.
Then maybe they got it from you. ;)
 
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