Bush Supporters Still Believe Iraq Had WMD

Found this on another forum I frequent.

Source: PIPA

Even after the final report of Charles Duelfer to Congress saying that Iraq did not have a significant WMD program, 72% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq had actual WMD (47%) or a major program for developing them (25%). Fifty-six percent assume that most experts believe Iraq had actual WMD and 57% also assume, incorrectly, that Duelfer concluded Iraq had at least a major WMD program. Kerry supporters hold opposite beliefs on all these points.

Similarly, 75% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda, and 63% believe that clear evidence of this support has been found. Sixty percent of Bush supporters assume that this is also the conclusion of most experts, and 55% assume, incorrectly, that this was the conclusion of the 9/11 Commission. Here again, large majorities of Kerry supporters have exactly opposite perceptions.

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Bush supporters also have numerous misperceptions about Bush's international policy positions. Majorities incorrectly assume that Bush supports multilateral approaches to various international issues--the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (69%), the treaty banning land mines (72%)--and for addressing the problem of global warming: 51% incorrectly assume he favors US participation in the Kyoto treaty. After he denounced the International Criminal Court in the debates, the perception that he favored it dropped from 66%, but still 53% continue to believe that he favors it. An overwhelming 74% incorrectly assumes that he favors including labor and environmental standards in trade agreements. In all these cases, majorities of Bush supporters favor the positions they impute to Bush. Kerry supporters are much more accurate in their perceptions of his positions on these issues.

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Personally, I could give a damn what other countries think of us.


What do you think?

vauge said:

Found this on another forum I frequent.

Source: PIPA





Personally, I could give a damn what other countries think of us.


What do you think?

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The point of the PIPA Study was to measure the perceptions and attitudes American's have of foreign policy.
I think there was a mention of a misperception people had that other nations were in favor of the Iraq War.
I don't remember any question about what people of other nations think of us.

I don't know if I would go so far as to say that I "don't give a damn what other countries think of us" but I do agree that we shouldn't be making our decisions based on making friends with other countries.

Toby said:

I don't know if I would go so far as to say that I "don't give a damn what other countries think of us" but I do agree that we shouldn't be making our decisions based on making friends with other countries.

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Whether policies should be formed around the opinion of other nations is not a topic in this survey.
The survey ask what ones beliefs about the support of other nations for US policies. and notes the ability of Bush supporters to ignore dissonant information.
From the summary:
This tendency of Bush supporters to ignore dissonant information extends to other realms as well. Despite an abundance of evidence--including polls conducted by Gallup International in 38 countries, and more recently by a consortium of leading newspapers in 10 major countries--only 31% of Bush supporters recognize that the majority of people in the world oppose the US having gone to war with Iraq. Forty-two percent assume that views are evenly divided, and 26% assume that the majority approves. Among Kerry supporters, 74% assume that the majority of the world is opposed.
Similarly, 57% of Bush supporters assume that the majority of people in the world would favor Bush's reelection; 33% assumed that views are evenly divided and only 9% assumed that Kerry would be preferred. A recent poll by GlobeScan and PIPA of 35 of the major countries around the world found that in 30, a majority or plurality favored Kerry, while in just 3 Bush was favored. On average, Kerry was preferred more than two to one.
The full report is available here:

http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/Media_10_02_03_Report.pdf

Why Bush Supporters Still believe? What do the majority Bush supporters who never look up a news website or newspaper get their political info from - Fox News.

As they say ignore some facts and they will go away, also if you repeat a lie over and over again people believe it.

It is also exceptional denial, lots of Republicans still believe that Bush is and "outstanding" President, abroad and domestically. Of course facts state other wise, but who needs facts when the big man has a vision.

They know it deep down, as I've seen on this forum Bush supporters will give Bush credit for something he didn't do. e.g. Kryistan (spelling) - the Bush legacy of freedom continues, even though Bush has no interest in the country.

Iraq and Afganistan, Bush has his mark on. Ukraine was more of a European effort and Syria pullout ...it was all Bush of course - nothing to do with Syria killing the Lebonese Prime Minister causing millions of people to protest in the streets of course no, Bush waved his hand and it was done...

Is it Denial? Ignorance? Paritzan Politics? Blind Hope? I just don't know anymore.

Why Bush Supporters Still believe? What do the majority Bush supporters who never look up a news website or newspaper get their political info from - Fox News.

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I have just about had enough of this BS. You on the left are so all knowing, so rightous, so arrogant, you think your sh*t doesn't stink. Every damn thread one of you make some reference to how stupid Republicans are and link it to Fox. I suggest you show some level of respect for other people who disagree with what you think. Every time I hear this in the future, I am going to bash you because you watch the BBC, or CNN. How would you like that? No wonder we don't have more Republicans on here. Who wants to listen to that crap every day. :damn

Squawker said:

I have just about had enough of this BS. You on the left are so all knowing, so rightous, so arrogant, you think your sh*t doesn't stink. Every damn thread one of you make some reference to how stupid Republicans are and link it to Fox. I suggest you show some level of respect for other people who disagree with what you think. Every time I hear this in the future, I am going to bash you because you watch the BBC, or CNN. How would you like that? No wonder we don't have more Republicans on here. Who wants to listen to that crap every day. :damn

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How does this make any sense?

Squawker said:

I have just about had enough of this BS. You on the left are so all knowing, so rightous, so arrogant, you think your sh*t doesn't stink. Every damn thread one of you make some reference to how stupid Republicans are and link it to Fox. I suggest you show some level of respect for other people who disagree with what you think. Every time I hear this in the future, I am going to bash you because you watch the BBC, or CNN. How would you like that? No wonder we don't have more Republicans on here. Who wants to listen to that crap every day. :damn

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Squawker, I know that I have said the equivalent in other forums and I was told there that I was wrong and unfair. I would take your word as I did with the man from the other forum.

In the days leading up to the war I saw polling from the Princeton Survey Review saying that more than 65% of the public believed that Saddam Hussein played a significant role in 911. I was blown away by that.

When I brought it up in forums with proponents of war, people with whom I was engaged in debate daily, I was stunned to hear them all say the same thing. These were not stupid people. Where did these crazy ideas come from?

I sent nasty emails to Tom, Dan and Peter citing the poll and telling them that they are pathetic failures at informing the public.

On Fox, I know that there was a high corelation between Fox viewership and holding those beliefs. Personally I don't think that I have ever seen a Fox broadcast so I don't know what they say.

These beliefs by Bush supporters do no bode well for democracy. Maybe all of them would have voted for him anyways.

On the war how can a public competently consent to war when so many held beliefs which were so wrong.

These were not stupid people. Where did these crazy ideas come from?

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Try the Clinton admin. and the UN. in the 1990's. How about Sandy Berger who stole and destroyed documents related to terrorism and the Clinton admin. What was he trying to hide? People on the right have plenty of evidence and questions that have nothing to do with Fox. The left is the master of conspiracy theories, except for this. According to the left, Saddam was pure as the driven snow, except for those few thousand people he tortured and killed. They still think he should be in power. Where do they get those crazy ideas from? You people on the left are just too ignorant to think for yourselves.

Squawker said:

Try the Clinton admin. and the UN. in the 1990's. How about Sandy Berger who stole and destroyed documents related to terrorism and the Clinton admin. What was he trying to hide? People on the right have plenty of evidence and questions that have nothing to do with Fox. The left is the master of conspiracy theories, except for this. According to the left, Saddam was pure as the driven snow, except for those few thousand people he tortured and killed. They still think he should be in power. Where do they get those crazy ideas from? You people on the left are just too ignorant to think for yourselves.

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Really? I have yet to hear anyone claim Saddam was anything other than a douche bag.

In several posts recently you've expressed detestation for the “right” being referred to in terms such as ignorant and or stupid. So it’s ok for the right to call the left ignorant, just not the other way around?

Squawker said:

I have just about had enough of this BS. You on the left are so all knowing, so rightous, so arrogant, you think your sh*t doesn't stink. Every damn thread one of you make some reference to how stupid Republicans are and link it to Fox. I suggest you show some level of respect for other people who disagree with what you think. Every time I hear this in the future, I am going to bash you because you watch the BBC, or CNN. How would you like that? No wonder we don't have more Republicans on here. Who wants to listen to that crap every day. :damn

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I never called Republicans stupid, I said they were in denial. They will support Bush indefintily because of the intense rivalry between the two sides, that even if the truth stares them in the face they continue support because they don't want the other guys in power - that's why a two party system is dangerous.

Ignorance, my def of it is a person who ignores all facts or all opinions that isn't his/her own. (maybe I'm wrong)

Why then is the majority of Bush supporters think WMD's are still in Iraq? Did someone forget to inform them? Or where they out when Bush made the annoucement?

Bash me for watching BBC if you want. I'm a big boy, I can take it. :smile:

They will support Bush indefintily because of the intense rivalry between the two sides, that even if the truth stares them in the face they continue support because they don't want the other guys in power - that's why a two party system is dangerous.

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That may be the perception but that is emphatically wrong.

I am a Bush supporter, but many of the crap he has signed still gets me flaming mad.
I think he should be MORE conservative instead of catering to the left.

I truely enjoy FOX News, but at the same time realize that there is NO such thing as unbiased journalism.

vauge said:

I truely enjoy FOX News, but at the same time realize that there is NO such thing as unbiased journalism.

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Yeah probably. Reuters and AP news are good though.

You say I'm emphatically wrong. But just say 2 presidental candidates hypothetically, the Republican candidate was a pathetic politican, lousy leader, crappy speaker etc. The Democrat was an excellent statesman etc.
Obviously the Democrat will get the undecided vote swing. But would still vote for an inept Republican candidate (I assure you I'm not taking a swipe at Bush here) over a more brilliant Democrat candidate (if they ever will be one again)?
I'm guessing you'd still vote Republican.

vauge said:

That may be the perception but that is emphatically wrong.

I am a Bush supporter, but many of the crap he has signed still gets me flaming mad.
I think he should be MORE conservative instead of catering to the left.

I truely enjoy FOX News, but at the same time realize that there is NO such thing as unbiased journalism.

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At least you’re able to see that. There’s a whole lot of folks in this country that aren’t, for what ever reason, able to either see that or admit that. There’s a bunch of who watch Fox and think they are “Fair and Balanced.” I started watching them again last fall, mainly due to a thread you started, and they’re most certainly not. It’s almost all spin all the time. There’s a reason conservatives love Fox News. But they’re a whole bunch of people in this country also listening to Air America to get their news and they’re completely biased as well. Over the pass couple of days I’ve been listening to them via the net and they spin their news completely to the left. There’s a reason liberals love Air America. I listened to them last night for about four hours while doing some work, I was listening to hear what they were saying about the Popes passing. They constantly slam the President. However at least they constantly tell their listeners their liberally biased. Fox constantly tells their viewers that they‘re “Fair and Balanced.” I‘d say one is being more honest then the other.

What do the majority Bush supporters who never look up a news website or newspaper get their political info from - Fox News.

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Perhaps you don't recall saying this Gar? Tha majority of "Republicans" never read or see any news outside of Fox. You don't see that as insulting? Let me assure you it is. Pacridge, Your hatred of Fox is very evident, no one needs to read about it in every other thread. I am weary of your Fox lies, Rush lies and Hannity lies, everybody on the right lies, all the time. That is just ridiculas claims to make. These types of comments do not add anything to a legitimate debate.

Squawker said:

Perhaps you don't recall saying this Gar? Tha majority of "Republicans" never read or see any news outside of Fox. You don't see that as insulting? Let me assure you it is. Pacridge, Your hatred of Fox is very evident, no one needs to read about it in every other thread. I am weary of your Fox lies, Rush lies and Hannity lies, everybody on the right lies, all the time. That is just ridiculas claims to make. These types of comments do not add anything to a legitimate debate.

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To begin with I don't hate anyone. I personally believe hate has a much more negative effect on the hater then anyone else.

As far as my constant “Fox lies, Rush lies and Hannity lies, everybody on the right lies, all the time” If they stop lying I’ll be happy to stop pointing it out. But I don’t think every body on the right lies. Those three do. I certainly don't think the average conservative “man on the street” does.

Where did this crazy thinking come from? I make up my mind based on "logic" and the best evidense "available". Let's take the flip side and say that people who trusted Saddam are total friggin idiots. People who don't think he had or would have tried to produce WMD's don't read the news and only get their information from Air America. They lie and do it all the time.

After its acceptance of Security Council resolution 687 (1991) in April 1991, the Government of Iraq initiated a policy of systematic concealment, denial and masking of the most important aspects of its proscribed weapons and related capabilities. In the face of this challenge, the UN Special Commission had to field innovative and creative inspections, planned, organized and executed in a manner capable of defeating Iraqi countermeasures. The inspection activities and the integrated analytical work, supported by advanced techniques and applied science, have since 1991 led to the uncovering of the full dimensions of Iraq's complex programs for weapons of mass destruction. During 1996 and 1997 the inspections led to the unmasking of: a complete biological weapons development and production program; highly sophisticated and advanced work on the extremely lethal chemical warfare nerve agent VX; and the multifaceted domestic development and production of Scud-type missile engines under Iraq's project 1728. Large quantities of chemical weapons and equipment, as well as long-range missiles and related precision machines, have been destroyed under the Commission's supervision in the implementation of resolution 687 (1991). As late as 1996, after the detection of the secret biological weapons programme, the sprawling research, development and production facility for biological weapons at Al Hakam was demolished.[S/1997/301]

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Source
This is from the Fall 2004 Duelfer report

Saddam wanted to recreate Iraq’s WMD capability—which was essentially destroyed in 1991—after sanctions were removed and Iraq’s economy stabilized, but probably with a different mix of capabilities to that which previously existed. Saddam aspired to develop a nuclear capability—in an incremental fashion, irrespective of international pressure and the resulting economic risks—but he intended to focus on ballistic missile and tactical chemical warfare (CW) capabilities.

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Source

Let's compare Hosts who are vile and hateful, shall we Pac? This is how Randi Rhodes on Air America treats her Republican callers.
She does it all the time. There is another one with Larz Larson, but you will enjoy this one. Go almost to the bottom of the page to the date, Wed. July 21 2004. Jill in New Jersey -- HEZBOLLAH. The left wing listeners think this is just hysterical. I have never heard a right wing talk show host treat anyone like this.
http://www.randirhodesarchives.com/

Squawker said:

Let's compare Hosts who are vile and hateful, shall we Pac? This is how Randi Rhodes on Air America treats her Republican callers.
She does it all the time. There is another one with Larz Larson, but you will enjoy this one. Go almost to the bottom of the page to the date, Wed. July 21 2004. Jill in New Jersey -- HEZBOLLAH. The left wing listeners think this is just hysterical. I have never heard a right wing talk show host treat anyone like this.
http://www.randirhodesarchives.com/

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I believe I said Air America was completely biased. And I agree with you- Randi Rhodes, whom I’ve been listening to the last few days is very offensive.

I found great interest in The Lars Larson piece. For sever several reasons. Mainly because I know Lars personally. I used to work with his father, Waldo, years ago. Not making his dads name up or the fact that I used to work with him up. Lars is from Tillamook Oregon, Actually Cape Mears, Oregon which is even smaller than Tillamook. There might 500 people living in Cape Mears today. Lars lives in Beaverton near Portland, Or. I haven’t seen him in about 18 years. You may have heard of Tillamook they’re somewhat famous for making cheese. Waldo Lars worked, he’s passed now, as a State Park Ranger. In later years he took small parts as extras in movie. If you ever care to see him he’s one of the old men in the club house shower scene in the movie “Goonies.” Which was filmed in the nearest town to where I currently live, Astoria, Oregon.

The other thing I found of interest in the Lars piece was her statement that she made- “Don’t call my show up and yell at me” In the clip, provided by her own site, he never raises his voice and certainly never yells. Like I said I know Lars, though it has been a while, I don’t see him as the type to yell. So what is she talking about? Sounds like BS to me.

Which is why I said in previous threads I think they’re all lying to us all the time. Least I certainly think I said that. But the fact that she’s offensive in no way proves that some body else isn’t.

Squawker said:

According to the left, Saddam was pure as the driven snow, except for those few thousand people he tortured and killed. They still think he should be in power. Where do they get those crazy ideas from? You people on the left are just too ignorant to think for yourselves.

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Where on Earth do you come up with this drivel? Please show me Democratic politicians who support Saddam? You're spreading lies, and that's what FNC does! Maybe it's osmosis?

vauge said:

That may be the perception but that is emphatically wrong.

I am a Bush supporter, but many of the crap he has signed still gets me flaming mad.
I think he should be MORE conservative instead of catering to the left.

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Now I think I've heard it all! Bush is "catering to the left"!

Wow! Let me guess? Bush is catering to the left and Hillary is catering to the right? Isn't that another Republican talking point?

The ONLY groups that Bush caters too are his campaign donors and the rapture right.

I can't believe that you actually wrote that "Bush caters to the left."

As a matter of prospective it should be noted that the original post and the report:
http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/I...2_03_Report.pdf
were from this past October.
Much has happened since then but there seems to be more interest now.`

ha ha ha! People still beleive that there are still wmd? Listen I used to not support the war because we just jumped into the war and did'nt have really good reason, but I decided to have a good attitude about it and tried to see the benifets of the war ( not that there are a lot ) We are spreading democracy. We're sharing are benifets in America with those around the world. Even though so many have died we have saved so much more. I'm pro saving innocent lives ( pro-life ) not pro-war! Hopefully we can get this job done quickly and then try to pay off our debt.

satinloveslibs said:

We're sharing are benifets in America with those around the world. Even though so many have died we have saved so much more. I'm pro saving innocent lives ( pro-life ) not pro-war! Hopefully we can get this job done quickly and then try to pay off our debt.

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Your promoting democracy and your values by the bomb and the bullet, I don't want my values to be spread by those means.

Spread a fragile democracy, yes, but Bush and Blair has spread more hate across the middle-east. Terrorism feeds off hate. The Bush Wars (that's what I think they will be called in the future) has made an attack on the United States MORE likely not less.

Squawker said:

Perhaps you don't recall saying this Gar? Tha majority of "Republicans" never read or see any news outside of Fox. You don't see that as insulting? Let me assure you it is. Pacridge, Your hatred of Fox is very evident, no one needs to read about it in every other thread. I am weary of your Fox lies, Rush lies and Hannity lies, everybody on the right lies, all the time. That is just ridiculas claims to make. These types of comments do not add anything to a legitimate debate.

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You have taken my words completly out of context.

I never said "Tha majority of "Republicans" never read or see any news outside of Fox."

I said the "The majority of Bush supporters WHO NEVER listen or read newspapers get their only news from Fox News. That could be 20% of Republicans for all I know.

Yow know the type I'm talking about, the undereducated family man who doesn't read a newspaper flops on the couch flicks on Fox News to be entertained and suposedly informed.