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Bush speech 12-18

M14 Shooter

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Watching the speech last night, and the usual liberal democrat response, several things are clear:
-GWB is committed to winning the war in Iraq and the war against terrorists.
-Liberal democrats are serious about winning their war with GWB
-GWB thinks we’re winning, and he wants credit – because by 2006 and 2008 it will be obvious we’re winning. He wants to lay down what he believed, and what the other side did.
-The Liberal Democrats know this and are doing everything they can to get in the way.
 

Caine

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M14 Shooter said:
Watching the speech last night, and the usual liberal democrat response, several things are clear:
-GWB is committed to winning the war in Iraq and the war against terrorists.
-Liberal democrats are serious about winning their war with GWB
-GWB thinks we’re winning, and he wants credit – because by 2006 and 2008 it will be obvious we’re winning. He wants to lay down what he believed, and what the other side did.
-The Liberal Democrats know this and are doing everything they can to get in the way.
LOL.... Funny what news show were YOU watching?

I watched it right before Larry King Live... Larry King had Joe Biden (D) and... Some Republican (South Carolina)... he talked to both of them, both of them said nearly the same thing, only Joe Biden had the attitude of not counting your chickens before they hatch sort of thing. I guess anything less than puckering up and kissing GWB's ass is considered a war against GWB?
Biden's main point was that we don't know what kind of government they elected because the ballots have not been counted yet, He stated that they very well could have voted in "So-and-So" who has been known to support an Iran Style Government. Stuff like that.......

I don't understand what is so wrong about not counting your chickens before they hatch.

That said.....
The rest of his speech sounded the same as always really, nothing special.
Kinda had that voice similar to a Pastor in a Pulpit as he usually does, and that weird look on his face to go with his weird Pastor style inflection that made me want to laugh. But the message was what was expected.
 

cnredd

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Caine said:
LOL.... Funny what news show were YOU watching?

I watched it right before Larry King Live... Larry King had Joe Biden (D) and... Some Republican (South Carolina)... he talked to both of them, both of them said nearly the same thing, only Joe Biden had the attitude of not counting your chickens before they hatch sort of thing. I guess anything less than puckering up and kissing GWB's ass is considered a war against GWB?
Biden's main point was that we don't know what kind of government they elected because the ballots have not been counted yet, He stated that they very well could have voted in "So-and-So" who has been known to support an Iran Style Government. Stuff like that.......

I don't understand what is so wrong about not counting your chickens before they hatch.

That said.....
The rest of his speech sounded the same as always really, nothing special.
Kinda had that voice similar to a Pastor in a Pulpit as he usually does, and that weird look on his face to go with his weird Pastor style inflection that made me want to laugh. But the message was what was expected.
I saw Larry King right after it too...Funny...when i saw Biden and Lindsay Graham("Some Republican":roll: ), Larry said, Senator Biden, we'll start with you...I said to myself, "It'll be 10 seconds before he dissents."...

I was wrong...It took less than two seconds.

paraphrasing from memory - Larry King - "Were you impressed?"(cnredd note - what the hell kind of question is that??!?!?)

Sen. Biden - "It was positive, BUT...." and then came the usual anti-Bush tirade.

I also noticed who got the most facetime on their "Situation Room" session after the speech...Michael Isakoff...A reporter from Newsweek...can anyone say "Flushed Koran"?...

Yeah...When I want to hear someone dissect a Presidential speech, the first person I'd invite would be a reporter...:roll:
 

Caine

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cnredd said:
I saw Larry King right after it too...Funny...when i saw Biden and Lindsay Graham("Some Republican":roll: ), Larry said, Senator Biden, we'll start with you...I said to myself, "It'll be 10 seconds before he dissents."...

I was wrong...It took less than two seconds.

paraphrasing from memory - Larry King - "Were you impressed?"(cnredd note - what the hell kind of question is that??!?!?)

Sen. Biden - "It was positive, BUT...." and then came the usual anti-Bush tirade.
One... It was positive, BUT it was the same junk he always says, why should Joe say anything different?

Two.... What Anti-Bush stuff did he say???

Three..... What is wrong with not counting your chickens before they hatch? I see all these republicans talking all this great hype, but what if (and I hope to god it doesn't happen) the elected officials ask us to leave and create an Iran style Theocracy and create an oppresive lifestyle for women? We don't know what is going on, and I don't know why everyone is acting like we have this great victory. Yes, its a good thing that they had free elections, and even the Sunni's decided to join in, but, we will have to wait and see before we allow our President to make fools out of us again, like he did on the Navy ship with the big "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" banner behind him.......

Thats what I have to say...
I don't want my country to be the lauging stock of the international community.
 

M14 Shooter

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What is wrong with not counting your chickens before they hatch?
The problem is that its like pulling teeth to get Liberal democrats to even admit that any eggs have been laid. Their entire message focuses on whats wrong with Iraq and does whatever it can to avoid ackowledging whats right.

For Bush, failure in Iraq is not an option.
For the Dems, failure in Iraq is their only hope.
 

Caine

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M14 Shooter said:
The problem is that its like pulling teeth to get Liberal democrats to even admit that any eggs have been laid. Their entire message focuses on whats wrong with Iraq and does whatever it can to avoid ackowledging whats right.

For Bush, failure in Iraq is not an option.
For the Dems, failure in Iraq is their only hope.
Hey, The bolded portion above is more partisan rhetoric, and has no bearing on the argument, so this will be the last time I mention such ignorant talk.

What you interpret from what the good Senator Biden says is going to be negative. Thats the difference between partisan views. You find the same speeches that GWB make as new and intresting, yet anything but praise and ass kissing from the Democrats means that they want us to lose.

He is simply not going to get his visions of Iraq ahead of what is going on right now, again, why did you not address the fact that maybe some Politicians don't want to paint a picture of this great Iraq, then something goes wrong and we look like a bunch of fools just like we did when Bush was standing on the Ship with a "Mission Accomplished" sign behind him?

You completely left that out of the argument, why is that?

I see no reason why to get ahead of ourselves, I don't want to be even more the laughing stock of the international community.
 

M14 Shooter

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Caine said:
Hey, The bolded portion above is more partisan rhetoric, and has no bearing on the argument, so this will be the last time I mention such ignorant talk.
Ok.. and as long as we're leaving out partisan rhetoric -- what have the Dems said that can actually be discussed?
Not much, eh?

What you interpret from what the good Senator Biden says is going to be negative. Thats the difference between partisan views. You find the same speeches that GWB make as new and intresting, yet anything but praise and ass kissing from the Democrats means that they want us to lose.
Seems to me you've ignored what I said.

He is simply not going to get his visions of Iraq ahead of what is going on right now, again, why did you not address the fact that maybe some Politicians don't want to paint a picture of this great Iraq, then something goes wrong and we look like a bunch of fools just like we did when Bush was standing on the Ship with a "Mission Accomplished" sign behind him?
Again: You've ignored what I said.

Few, if any Dems (aside from Joe Lieberman) will do what they can to either ognore or downplay the successes in Iraq, and only bring up the things that are not yet successful. They refuse to admit there are any eggs laid.

And WHY do they do this?
Success in Iraq = GOP success in 2006/2008.
 

Caine

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M14 Shooter said:
Ok.. and as long as we're leaving out partisan rhetoric -- what have the Dems said that can actually be discussed?
Not much, eh?


Seems to me you've ignored what I said.


Again: You've ignored what I said.

Few, if any Dems (aside from Joe Lieberman) will do what they can to either ognore or downplay the successes in Iraq, and only bring up the things that are not yet successful. They refuse to admit there are any eggs laid.

And WHY do they do this?
Success in Iraq = GOP success in 2006/2008.
Hmmmm...... Lets see.....
Although I did state he is doubtful... here are a couple of links that prove he admits that eggs have been laid....
http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/d...aqside_17int.ART.State.Edition2.22be4f14.html
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/IraqWhereThingsStand/story?id=1410745

Once somebody besides a blogger posts some crap on last night's interviews with Larry King.. (hopefully someone will) there will be more info
 

M14 Shooter

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BIDEN: But the bottom line is we're going to have a significant draw down of American troops in '06 no matter what happens. We're either going to be leaving here with Iraq having traded a dictator for chaos, or leaving here having traded a dictator for some stability. And that will be done in the next six months.

BIDEN: Well I'm not talking about leaving prematurely. They either are going to get a political solution through their constitution by this June … If they get it, we're going to be well on our way to drawing down. If they don't get it, in my view, all the king's horses and all the king's men will not be able to hold Iraq together in the midst of a civil war.
Bush:
I am committed to winning.
Biden:
We're leaving no matter what.

How are these positions similar?
 

Caine

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M14 Shooter said:
Bush:
I am committed to winning.
Biden:
We're leaving no matter what.

How are these positions similar?
Did you read ANYTHING from the first link?
The ABC link was to show that he stated that the elections were "very well run"

The other link was to show his opinion with that of General Casey on how the elections will effect things next year.

And, why do thier positions have to be similar?
Biden is looking past the glory of having done the elections and realizing that there is a threat of a problem with the diplomacy in Iraq, thus, not counting his chickens before they hatch.
He doesn't have to Kiss Bush's ass in order to show that he recognizes that eggs have been laid.

So there, I addressed your issue, you just decided to pick the only negative comments there.
 

M14 Shooter

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So there, I addressed your issue, you just decided to pick the only negative comments there.
The "only negative comment"?
Biden and Bush have a completely different view on the subject.
Bush is concerned about winning, Biden about leaving.
These positions are diamertically opposed.

And now that you've posted what Biden has said, why dont you give us some quotes from Kennedy and Pelosi and Reid. Show us how open they are to the idea that there have been great successes in Iraq and that things are moving forward rather well.
 

Caine

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M14 Shooter said:
The "only negative comment"?
Biden and Bush have a completely different view on the subject.
Bush is concerned about winning, Biden about leaving.
These positions are diamertically opposed.

And now that you've posted what Biden has said, why dont you give us some quotes from Kennedy and Pelosi and Reid. Show us how open they are to the idea that there have been great successes in Iraq and that things are moving forward rather well.
Nope... You haven't addressed any of my comments yet, You refused to do so until I posted something that shows he realizes that the "eggs have been lain" so now, what is wrong with not counting chickens before they hatch?
Whats wrong with not painting a fake portrait of something when we don't know WHO they elected or how this new government will decide to run thier country?
 

M14 Shooter

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Caine said:
Nope... You haven't addressed any of my comments yet, You refused to do so until I posted something that shows he realizes that the "eggs have been lain" so now, what is wrong with not counting chickens before they hatch?
Ok... I'll do it.

"It's wrong for (Bush) to attempt to silence his critics by calling them defeatists. And it's wrong for him to gloss over the cherry picking of intelligence that led us to this war. ... The president should acknowledge, as his own generals do, that the Iraq war has emboldened the terrorists and increased their ranks. He should acknowledge, as his own generals do, that our overwhelming presence in Iraq is putting our soldiers, and American citizens, at greater risk." — Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass.
"While I appreciate the president's increased candor, too much of the substance remains the same and the American people have still not heard what benchmarks we must meet along the way to know that progress is being made." — Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev.
"Tonight the president acknowledged more of the mistakes he has made in Iraq, but he still does not get it. Iraq did not present an imminent threat to the security of the United States before he began his war of choice. The president's speech tonight was further evidence that after almost three years, he still does not understand that crucial fact." — House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.
"The president needs to realize that his misguided, Iraq-centric policies are draining our military and intelligence capabilities and are undermining our efforts to combat al-Qaida and its allies." — Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis.
I dont see anyone recognizing the eggs have been laid.


Whats wrong with not painting a fake portrait of something when we don't know WHO they elected or how this new government will decide to run thier country?
LOL
Ok then... until we know these things, I guess we'll have to stay.
Right?

Tell me why we can't say 'this is going well' until we know how things will turn out?
 

Caine

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M14 Shooter said:
I dont see anyone recognizing the eggs have been laid.
I saw Mr. Biden say things were going well with the election and that they were very well organzied. You failed to read

LOL
Ok then... until we know these things, I guess we'll have to stay.
Right?

Tell me why we can't say 'this is going well' until we know how things will turn out?
People have said both "this is going well" and "im skeptical" at the same time.
Those in the Republican party are already opening the champagne bottles, just like they did in May 2003 when they claimed "Mission Accomplished"
 

M14 Shooter

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Caine said:
I saw Mr. Biden say things were going well with the election and that they were very well organzied.
Funny... I didnt see quotes from Biden in my post.
I saw Pelosi, Kennedy, Reid, etc.
 

Caine

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M14 Shooter said:
Funny... I didnt see quotes from Biden in my post.
I saw Pelosi, Kennedy, Reid, etc.
Your being blind on purpose.
I am speaking about what I....S-A-W......O-N......M-Y.......L-I-N-K.....

Or...

Are you admitting you didn't really read it because you were too anxious to throw out the quotes of your taken out of context??
 

M14 Shooter

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Caine said:
Your being blind on purpose.
I am speaking about what I....S-A-W......O-N......M-Y.......L-I-N-K.....
Or...
Are you admitting you didn't really read it because you were too anxious to throw out the quotes of your taken out of context??
No.. YOU are being blind on purpose.
Biden may very well be admitting that eggs have been laid.
But, Biden (and Lieberman and a few others) are the exception to the rule -- the liberal democrats, in general, refuse to admit that there's anything good.
 

Caine

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M14 Shooter said:
No.. YOU are being blind on purpose.
Biden may very well be admitting that eggs have been laid.
But, Biden (and Lieberman and a few others) are the exception to the rule -- the liberal democrats, in general, refuse to admit that there's anything good.
Nah, you just refuse to listen because your dead set on blaming the next thing wrong on the Democrats.
 

M14 Shooter

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Caine said:
Nah, you just refuse to listen because your dead set on blaming the next thing wrong on the Democrats.
And YOU refuse to listen because you refuse to blame anything on the Democrats.
 

Caine

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M14 Shooter said:
And YOU refuse to listen because you refuse to blame anything on the Democrats.
With the Democrats having such a small minority in ANY part of our government at the moment, I see no way to blame our Country's mistakes on them.

Lets see.......
The praise given by the Democratic leaders has been ignored by conservatives while they focus on the criticism.
The comments of criticism by Democratic leaders has been twisted to reflect a message that was not intended, in order to gain Political support.

So, what exactly is there to blame Democrats for?
 

M14 Shooter

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Caine said:
With the Democrats having such a small minority in ANY part of our government at the moment, I see no way to blame our Country's mistakes on them.
Of course you dont.

Tell me:
Where, exactly, do you think the vast majority of the criticism of the war comes from - liberal democrats, or some other group?

Who, if not the liberal democrats, is most likely to refuse to acknowledge any success in the war, but more than happy to level criticism of same?
 
H

hipsterdufus

M14 Shooter said:
Watching the speech last night, and the usual liberal democrat response, several things are clear:
-GWB is committed to winning the war in Iraq and the war against terrorists.
-Liberal democrats are serious about winning their war with GWB
-GWB thinks we’re winning, and he wants credit – because by 2006 and 2008 it will be obvious we’re winning. He wants to lay down what he believed, and what the other side did.
-The Liberal Democrats know this and are doing everything they can to get in the way.
Bush could be eating babies in the basement of the Whitehouse and 30% of the country would support him.

http://www.wonkette.com/images/hmmmm delicious.jpg

Here's what I heard yesterday:

He incorrectly stated that the Senate wants to repeal the Patriot Act. They want to do no such thing. The Senate, lead by Russ Feingold, want to extend the provisions by 3 months to further debate provisions marked for the sunset clause. They also want the ability to review changes instituted in committe that were not debated by the Senate.

The recent revelation of NSA spying, "Rendition" of torture to foreign lands and FISA non complience tells us that we need to get this right!

Bush attacks New York Times rather than answer question on NSA spying w/out judicial notification. He calls NYT reporting a "shameful act" to say that Americans are being illegally spied on. Sounds like Nixon's view of the Washington Post during Watergate.

When asked again he - dodges question on getting court permission to spy on Americans. He gives "move quickly" dodge- of course FISA does grant exclusions - but requires after the fact notification to give permission.

When given the chance to answer if he has made any mistakes, - he again does not answer the question. WOW!

Bush says that calls monitered are international. Then later backtracks and states that they are domestic calls too. WOW!

Here comes a softball from Faux Newz' Wendell Goler about WMD : Bush lies and says Congress saw same intel as President.

This is like shooting fish in a barrel.

"Democracy's don't war" Bush / Orwellian speak at its best.
Now he's telling long stories to avoid taking questions.

Q - 19,000 requests for wiretaps since 1979 only 5 rejected by the court. Why bypass the system now?

A- Bush avoids question, says NASA (sic) is monitering the program. :rofl

Bush takes another opportunity to slam NYT.

Bush takes another opportunity to slam NYT.

American hubris - We can have nukes, but Iran can't. We can launch preemptive wars, Iran can't. Anyone else see the contradiction here?

Q- If global war on terror lasts for decades, will office of presidency have unchecked power for the forseeable future?

A- Bush says he's not a dictator and is safeguarding our civil liberties.

Bush say's decisions about staying in Iraq should not be based on politics:confused: Who authorised war in the first place?

Bush also says troops are not strong enough to hear that not all politicians are for the war. Tell that to Paul Hackett.

Bush lies again and says Senate wants Patriot Act to expire.

Bush again mis-states reasoning for bypassing FISA.

Bush cares about African Americans - his leadership failed the community on Katrina, skips 5 consecutive NAACP meetings, lobbies to cut food stamps, end welfare, lies about African Americans not benefitting from Social Security.

Bush calls the kettle black by saying Senate want to play politics with the patriot act.

Bush tells press to worry about polls - but all of his Iraqi speeches were crafted by PR firms who did extensive research on war language that would be preferrable to the American people.

Bush ends press conference with "Happy Holidays" - some red meat for Bill O'Reilly!!!!! :rofl
 
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H

hipsterdufus

Note to Mods -

It would have been cool to have a real time chat during the press conference.
 

M14 Shooter

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hipsterdufus said:
Bush could be eating babies in the basement of the Whitehouse and 30% of the country would support him.
I wonder how long before Caine complains that this is partisan rhetoric and has no place on this board - and that you should stay on topic.
 

Caine

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M14 Shooter said:
I wonder how long before Caine complains that this is partisan rhetoric and has no place on this board - and that you should stay on topic.
I don't have to, you just did.

But, as to the rest of hipster's statements on the actual speech, I agree!
 
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