Bush Says Democrats Would Raise Taxes

[Stinger]

So I should happily .................

Admit that families do lose the family businesses and farms due to inheritence taxes. I gave you a prime example of how it happens. The differences we have here is that I and other conservatives believe in the family, that the goal of families should be to work together to build the family and it's future generations self-sufficient and with more than the preceeding generations. Therefore absolving government and other people from having to work on thier behalf. That property rights are a fundimental cornerstone of our freedom and the ability to insure the future of your children and their children and their children is a fundimental principle of our country.

One reason why I think it should be a tax on those who receive the inheritance income rather than the estate.

Semantics.

But that still doesn't make me feel like I should have to pay higher taxes so the "little" people can get a transfer of wealth they didn't work for tax free.

First you assume they didn't work for it when if fact they may very well have worked at it.

What you really "feel" by a reasonable reading of your post is jealousy for those families whose predicesors worked hard, planned well, and built up wealth they can pass down through the future generations of their families. You believe government should take it away from them, punish them for having family values and persuing the American dream.

 

[TurtleDude]

So I should happily pay higher taxes so your friend can get a multi-million dollar business tax free. No thanks. Let him borrow the money to pay the tax and pay off the debt.

Your friend still ended up far better off than most.



One reason why I think it should be a tax on those who receive the inheritance income rather than the estate.

But that still doesn't make me feel like I should have to pay higher taxes so the "little" people can get a transfer of wealth they didn't work for tax free.

the fallacy of your feelings is that if we don't rape the rich, the poor have to pay more. the same people that push for higher taxes on the productive are the ones who created all the entitlement programs that require revenue in the first place. We should only have a consumption tax and that would capture billions that escape the income tax and it would destroy much of the power the dems get from tax policies (as well as destroy some of the GOP's arguments of fighting against dem wealth redistributionist nonsense). It would also eliminate the billions lost by people in order to comply with the idiotic tax code.

If your father leaves you say a Picasso he bought for a million but worth 2 million when you get it, you shouldn't have to sell it to pay taxes on a 2 million dollar value. IF YOU SELL IT than you should have to pay capital gains tax on the one million dollar increase.

 

[ProudAmerican]

So what. I don't want to pay taxes. Nobody cares about that on April 15. Why should the dead guys' wants mean I have to pay more taxes so his heirs don't have to pay taxes on what they receive.

so what? lmao. that sums you up perfectly.

If you are a trust fund baby, I could understand your point of view.

so you are going to leave your estate to the government in your will? good job.

Your assumption that they do is nonense.

im living proof that my assumption is correct and yours is B.S.

Good for you. That explains why you are against heirs having to pay taxes as if they are some sort of privileged class. The concept I have to pay higher taxes and work longer in my life to support your *** getting a ton of money tax free is bullshit.

nonsense. my family are the ones that worked to support my *** getting a ton of money.....not you.

 

[ProudAmerican]

What you really "feel" by a reasonable reading of your post is jealousy for those families whose predicesors worked hard, planned well, and built up wealth they can pass down through the future generations of their families. You believe government should take it away from them, punish them for having family values and persuing the American dream.

kind of explains why he wants SS to be left alone doesnt it?

 

[TurtleDude]

Admit that families do lose the family businesses and farms due to inheritence taxes. I gave you a prime example of how it happens. The differences we have here is that I and other conservatives believe in the family, that the goal of families should be to work together to build the family and it's future generations self-sufficient and with more than the preceeding generations. Therefore absolving government and other people from having to work on thier behalf. That property rights are a fundimental cornerstone of our freedom and the ability to insure the future of your children and their children and their children is a fundimental principle of our country.



Semantics.



First you assume they didn't work for it when if fact they may very well have worked at it.

What you really "feel" by a reasonable reading of your post is jealousy for those families whose predicesors worked hard, planned well, and built up wealth they can pass down through the future generations of their families. You believe government should take it away from them, punish them for having family values and persuing the American dream.

great points I also note that many estates are not great just due to the effort of the deceased. A family business or farm might belong to the deceased but his sons may have spent many u ncompensated hours building it up. Many of the death confiscation advocates are anti family and distrust that building block.

Jealousy is the main motivation supporting the death tax. The BS claims of "We need the money" has nothing to do with the true motivation. IF money were the real issue, then taxing ALL Estates a flat percentage would raise far far more than just 2% of the estates.

 

[Stinger]

great points I also note that many estates are not great just due to the effort of the deceased. A family business or farm might belong to the deceased but his sons may have spent many u ncompensated hours building it up. Many of the death confiscation advocates are anti family and distrust that building block.

Jealousy is the main motivation supporting the death tax. The BS claims of "We need the money" has nothing to do with the true motivation. IF money were the real issue, then taxing ALL Estates a flat percentage would raise far far more than just 2% of the estates.

My father went into business with a partener when I was about 10 years old. We went through many lean years and lower standard of living until he built it up, I worked there as a teenager sweeping floors and learning the business. To say I didn't work for it is absurd.

The tax is nothing but a means of saying "YEAH WE GOT YOU YOU RICH MEANIES"

 

[Iriemon]

Admit that families do lose the family businesses and farms due to inheritence taxes.

None are "lost." Some maybe be sold because it makes more sense for the heirs to cash out rather than borrow money to pay the tax, and it may be in some case that the business is not successful enough to support a loan. I have never seen evidence of a farm that had to be sold because of the estate tax. The only reported example I heard was down here when the Robbie heirs sold the Dolphins, in part because of the estate taxes they said. Not that any of them ended up on the streets.

I gave you a prime example of how it happens. The differences we have here is that I and other conservatives believe in the family, that the goal of families should be to work together to build the family and it's future generations self-sufficient and with more than the preceeding generations. Therefore absolving government and other people from having to work on thier behalf. That property rights are a fundimental cornerstone of our freedom and the ability to insure the future of your children and their children and their children is a fundimental principle of our country.

Great. So if that is your belief, why not tax the Paris Hiltons and let me pay no taxes so I can build up property to insure the future of my children.

Semantics.

Not completely; and estate tax is based on the value of an estate and an inheritance tax is based upon the amount received by an individual. With an estate tax of 33% and a 10 million estate with 10,000 heirs, the tax would be 3.3 million and each heir would receive $666. With an inheritance tax, the $1000 might not create a taxable event depending upon the individual's circumstances.

First you assume they didn't work for it when if fact they may very well have worked at it.

Then they should have some interest before death that they paid taxes on and there would be no transfer on that interest to be taxed.

What you really "feel" by a reasonable reading of your post is jealousy for those families whose predicesors worked hard, planned well, and built up wealth they can pass down through the future generations of their families. You believe government should take it away from them, punish them for having family values and persuing the American dream.

What I "feel" is that it is unfair for some trust fund baby who inherits $ a billion and never has to work a day in his life inherit that fortune he or she didn't earn tax free, and then live on tax subsidized investment returns that are taxed at lower rates than those of us who bust our *** making a living pay.

Yeah, I believe they should be punished just as much as I am. Yeah, I'm not willing to give up my American dream so the billion dollar trust fund baby doesn't have to pay a tax. Yeah, I don't think its great family values that I have less money to support my family so that the trust fund baby can live in some tax privileged existance.

 

[ProudAmerican]

My father went into business with a partener when I was about 10 years old. We went through many lean years and lower standard of living until he built it up, I worked there as a teenager sweeping floors and learning the business. To say I didn't work for it is absurd.

The tax is nothing but a means of saying "YEAH WE GOT YOU YOU RICH MEANIES"

yep.

Ive bailed hay, fed cows, hearded cattle, worked in my fathers cabinet shop.

I did more physical labor by the time I was 18 than many people do their entire lives.

but im just a rich, spoiled, trustfund baby.

LMAO.

 

[ProudAmerican]

Yeah, I believe they should be punished just as much as I am.

again........

show us the paperwork proving that you are willing your estate to the government.

 

[Iriemon]

great points I also note that many estates are not great just due to the effort of the deceased. A family business or farm might belong to the deceased but his sons may have spent many u ncompensated hours building it up. Many of the death confiscation advocates are anti family and distrust that building block.

Jealousy is the main motivation supporting the death tax. The BS claims of "We need the money" has nothing to do with the true motivation. IF money were the real issue, then taxing ALL Estates a flat percentage would raise far far more than just 2% of the estates.

Class warfare by the rich to stay rich by giving themselves tax exempt status and shifiting the tax burden to the working and middle and poorer clases is what is supporting the Republican elimination of the estate tax, just like the rest of their tax and borrow policies.

 

[Iriemon]

again........

show us the paperwork proving that you are willing your estate to the government.

again ..... Why would I do something like that?

 

[ProudAmerican]

Class warfare by the rich to stay rich by giving themselves tax exempt status and shifiting the tax burden to the working and middle and poorer clases is what is supporting the Republican elimination of the estate tax, just like the rest of their tax and borrow policies.

complete B.S.

many of the people that are hurt by the death tax are far from being "rich"

unless you call farmers that work from sun up to sun down just to make a living.......and work 3 jobs untill they get so stressed out they have a major stroke (my father in law for example) rich!!!!!

 

[ProudAmerican]

again ..... Why would I do something like that?

set the example man.

prove to us you REALLY FEEL the government deserves our estates.

lead the way and make the rest of us proud!!!!!

 

[Iriemon]

My father went into business with a partener when I was about 10 years old. We went through many lean years and lower standard of living until he built it up, I worked there as a teenager sweeping floors and learning the business. To say I didn't work for it is absurd.

Didn't you get some compensatoion for working there?

The tax is nothing but a means of saying "YEAH WE GOT YOU YOU RICH MEANIES"

You don't think the rich should have to pay taxes?

 

[Iriemon]

set the example man.

prove to us you REALLY FEEL the government deserves our estates.

lead the way and make the rest of us proud!!!!!

No thanks.

But you can set an example of your support for the Bush Admin by giving the Govt all your assets. Have you done that?

 

[ProudAmerican]

Didn't you get some compensatoion for working there?

dumbest question ever.

families HELP EACH OTHER. families DONT ALWAYS PAY ONE ANOTHER FOR SERVICES.

but some people simply have no grasp of what family is really all about.

 

[ProudAmerican]

No thanks.

But you can set an example of your support for the Bush Admin by giving the Govt all your assets. Have you done that?

nice deflection.

I thought we were specifically talking about the death tax? Im against Bush approving it, or anyone else.

you clearly are for it, and should lead by example.

 

[Iriemon]

complete B.S.

many of the people that are hurt by the death tax are far from being "rich"

Example?

unless you call farmers that work from sun up to sun down just to make a living.......and work 3 jobs untill they get so stressed out they have a major stroke (my father in law for example) rich!!!!!

How hard you work has nothing to do with whether you are rich.

 

[Iriemon]

nice deflection.

I thought we were specifically talking about the death tax? Im against Bush approving it, or anyone else.

you clearly are for it, and should lead by example.

Why don't you lead by example, and I'll consider you example.

 

[Iriemon]

dumbest question ever.

families HELP EACH OTHER. families DONT ALWAYS PAY ONE ANOTHER FOR SERVICES.

but some people simply have no grasp of what family is really all about.

Guess I don't. When I used to work at my grandpa's construction site he paid me.

 

[Iriemon]

yep.

Ive bailed hay, fed cows, hearded cattle, worked in my fathers cabinet shop.

I did more physical labor by the time I was 18 than many people do their entire lives.

but im just a rich, spoiled, trustfund baby.

LMAO.

You probably are. That's the fun of the internet.

 

[ProudAmerican]

Example?

ummmm,

I thought I was one.

How hard you work has nothing to do with whether you are rich.

correct.

Guess I don't. When I used to work at my grandpa's construction site he paid me.

I can tell you absolutely you dont. anyone that feels a family member owes them something for helping to build a life is just not thinking clearly IMO.

unfortunately you are lumping everyone into your opinion of how things should be. like it or not, some families help one another without being compensated.

 

[ProudAmerican]

You probably are. That's the fun of the internet.

doesnt it usually work the other way around?

dont people usually lie on the internet about HOW RICH THEY ARE.....instead of the other way around?

:shock:

 

[ProudAmerican]

Why don't you lead by example, and I'll consider you example.

I will gladly lead by example and NOT allow the government to take my families estate.

 

[TurtleDude]

Class warfare by the rich to stay rich by giving themselves tax exempt status and shifiting the tax burden to the working and middle and poorer clases is what is supporting the Republican elimination of the estate tax, just like the rest of their tax and borrow policies.

more nonsense-the people who have taxable estates have paid tons of income tax. If your estate is not taxable at all, why should other's be taxable. If you want to be fair, tax all estates at the same rate rather than this nonsense where only a few get hit with huge bills

you also have completely ignored the fact that the estate tax was a social(ist) engineering scheme that became obsolete with the massive progressive income taxes