• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Budget deficit smashes $1 trillion mark, the highest in seven years (1 Viewer)

Suddenly you care about context. How about some real numbers then showing not only was spending relative to GDP high, but total spending was the highest ever at the time, with Democrats holding total control in 2009-2010.

2006 2,655.1
2007 2,728.7
2008 2,982.5
2009 3,517.7
2010 3,457.1

And now with them in charge of the appropriations and taxes, the deficit and spending is creeping back up.
Face it. This idea that Democrats are any better than Republicans on spending is the real myth. Accept it and we can move forward. Do you even care about debt or just as a tool to blast Republicans?

If spending is what you are blaming Democrats for increasing, I refer you to graph #2 in post #44. Spending skyrocketed during the Bush Administration and slowed considerably during Obama. The Repubs held the House in both administrations. You really can't legitimately lay added spending at the feet of Democrats.
 
None of the debate in this thread escapes a harsh truth, Trump and Republicans in the 115th Congress decided to hand out a tax break but did not reduce spending and the result was a complete change in deficit direction year on year.

The economy was muddling along and deficits were falling, then Trump happened.

As we now approach the $Trillion mark again (with record treasury auctions along the way) the rhetoric is we have a “great, great economy.” So when things turn south we will be taking a $Trillion deficit into that recession, making the decision that Trump and Republicans in the 115th Congress one of the worst that can be made. If the economy was doing so great Republicans would not need a $Trillion deficit to keep it floating, and we are set up for a fiscal and monetary policy fiasco the moment we see the next correction.

At no time now or in the future can any Trump or Republican supporter call their party “fiscally responsible” given this disastrous choice they made, and it has already shown enough cracks that Trump wants the Fed to make his mistake cost a little less because the numbers look awful.
 
None of the debate in this thread escapes a harsh truth, Trump and Republicans in the 115th Congress decided to hand out a tax break but did not reduce spending and the result was a complete change in deficit direction year on year.

The economy was muddling along and deficits were falling, then Trump happened.

As we now approach the $Trillion mark again (with record treasury auctions along the way) the rhetoric is we have a “great, great economy.” So when things turn south we will be taking a $Trillion deficit into that recession, making the decision that Trump and Republicans in the 115th Congress one of the worst that can be made. If the economy was doing so great Republicans would not need a $Trillion deficit to keep it floating, and we are set up for a fiscal and monetary policy fiasco the moment we see the next correction.

At no time now or in the future can any Trump or Republican supporter call their party “fiscally responsible” given this disastrous choice they made, and it has already shown enough cracks that Trump wants the Fed to make his mistake cost a little less because the numbers look awful.



Just a point. If the economy was "muddling along" when Obama left office, then it's muddling along now. The upward economic trends under Trump were established under Obama. There are no significant differences.
 
None of what you get is free and none of what is being proposed by the Left is fathomable much less free.

It seems you were the one who brought up the notion of free ****. I was responding to that.
 
The problem is, the right wing doesn't believe the Poor are worth equality or equal protection of the law under our form of Capitalism.

Baloney! As the man said some time ago, "both the poor and the rich have the same right to sleep under bridges."
 
If spending is what you are blaming Democrats for increasing, I refer you to graph #2 in post #44. Spending skyrocketed during the Bush Administration and slowed considerably during Obama. The Repubs held the House in both administrations. You really can't legitimately lay added spending at the feet of Democrats.

Answer the question. Do you even care about debt or just as a tool to blast Republicans? I dont even need to point out how Democrats are big spenders. They have that stereotype for a reason. Just look at this years campaign.
 
None of the debate in this thread escapes a harsh truth, Trump and Republicans in the 115th Congress decided to hand out a tax break but did not reduce spending and the result was a complete change in deficit direction year on year.

Except revenue is up.

The federal budget deficit was $1,067 billion for the first 11 months of fiscal year 2019, CBO estimates, $168 billion more than the deficit recorded during the same period last year. Revenues were $102 billion higher and outlays were $271 billion higher than in the same period in fiscal year 2018.

100bn more revenue
271bn more spending
168bn more deficit

Simple math.
 
Answer the question. Do you even care about debt or just as a tool to blast Republicans? I dont even need to point out how Democrats are big spenders. They have that stereotype for a reason. Just look at this years campaign.
I can ask you the same question, except for Democrats.

I care about debt when it matters to care about debt -- when the country is economically sound. You pounce on Obama for not lowering the debt when the economy was near a depression. Economists tell us that's exactly the right time to run deficits -- and Obama reduced the deficit by 75% as the economy improved.

Now, with 3.x% unemployment, Republicans have forgotten that just a few years earlier they were deficit hawks. Now, during the wrong times, they don't care about massive debt.
 
Answer the question. Do you even care about debt or just as a tool to blast Republicans? I dont even need to point out how Democrats are big spenders. They have that stereotype for a reason. Just look at this years campaign.

Of course the democrats are stereotyped as big spenders. The have afflicted us for generations with Social Security and Medicare. Then came the horror of food stamps and jobs programs designed to help those at the bottom. The GOP has its jobs program priorities straight: weapons. Why through their policies they build weapons systems across 3-4 states so that 6-8 Senators and all those defense workers can benefit. Air Force doesn't want a plane?: take it, we want you to have it.

Aside from the GOP often not wanting to pay for the stuff they promote, (witness deficits) there is little difference between the parties. Democrats tend to use the government to support their constituents republicans do the same. But Reagan spoke of "welfare queens," while never mentioning "weapons kings." Go figure.
 
I can ask you the same question, except for Democrats.

I care about debt when it matters to care about debt -- when the country is economically sound. You pounce on Obama for not lowering the debt when the economy was near a depression. Economists tell us that's exactly the right time to run deficits -- and Obama reduced the deficit by 75% as the economy improved.

Now, with 3.x% unemployment, Republicans have forgotten that just a few years earlier they were deficit hawks. Now, during the wrong times, they don't care about massive debt.

The deficit went up in 2016, and was higher than before the recession when Obama left office. Were you here blasting democrats?
 
Of course the democrats are stereotyped as big spenders. The have afflicted us for generations with Social Security and Medicare. Then came the horror of food stamps and jobs programs designed to help those at the bottom. The GOP has its jobs program priorities straight: weapons. Why through their policies they build weapons systems across 3-4 states so that 6-8 Senators and all those defense workers can benefit. Air Force doesn't want a plane?: take it, we want you to have it.

Aside from the GOP often not wanting to pay for the stuff they promote, (witness deficits) there is little difference between the parties. Democrats tend to use the government to support their constituents republicans do the same. But Reagan spoke of "welfare queens," while never mentioning "weapons kings." Go figure.

Exactly. Both parties are big spenders and democrats worst of all.
 
The deficit went up in 2016, and was higher than before the recession when Obama left office. Were you here blasting democrats?
Please. One year isn't a trend.

fredgraph.png
 
Obama's first 3 years were all more than this.

Takes money to fix past issues.

LOL Obama was handed "issues" like a cratering economy yet he left office with a deficit half of what he was saddled with by Bush. Not one Republican President has left office with a deficit lower than when he started. It appears Republicans only know how to grow deficits. This chart proves it.

9.13.19.png
 
LOL Obama was handed "issues" like a cratering economy yet he left office with a deficit half of what he was saddled with by Bush. Not one Republican President has left office with a deficit lower than when he started. It appears Republicans only know how to grow deficits. This chart proves it.

9.13.19.png

Perhaps Trump's will also by the time he leaves office.
 
Like I said..they can't. The reality is that when the "Dems do a better job"..its been when there has been a democratic president.. who was then reigned in by a republican congress. Bill Clinton.. Obama.. are two examples. Both of them would probably have preferred more spending. Obama would have particularly to get out of the recession. Clinton probably would have as well. But both had republican congresses that acted like deficit hawks (though it went away when a republican was in the presidency.).

But at the end of the day.. touting the deficit reduction for Obama.. or for Clinton is not going to win the election for democrats.

The DEM candidates don't need to point to Obama or Clinton. They need to point to Trump and the Republicans who passed this ridiculous tax cut, which has our deficit over $1 Trillion in only 11 months. They are fools for not capitalizing on the folly of the Republican fiscal policy.
 
Obama's first 3 years were all more than this.

Takes money to fix past issues.

But... there's not a Great recession happening either
 
Paying to upgrade the military after Obama for one. Like I said, Takes money to fix problems of the past.

Paying to upgrade the military after Obama for one.

So we couldn't destroy any country in the world at that time of Obama?
 
Obama was too busy sending billions to our enemies to worry about our military..

So we couldn't destroy any country in the world at that time of Obama
?

Nice deflection(wink)
 
Please. One year isn't a trend.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=oYCi/IMG][/QUOTE]

Cool, well this thread went the same as the last 80 times you posted it. See you next week!
 
Since the Reagan administration the rich have looted the country while paying lower taxes. The time has come to force them to give back what they have taken from the rest of us. Let's tax the living day lights out of them. If they complain, let's tax them some more.
 
Perhaps Trump's will also by the time he leaves office.

Not if his business history is any indication. He loves other people's money.
 
Except revenue is up.

100bn more revenue
271bn more spending
168bn more deficit

Simple math.

While true, what you are ignoring is the “more” part applied across the board including deficit addition. The point being we did not have an economic reason to add to deficits if the economy was doing well.

What Trump and Republicans in the 115th Congress really did was quintuple down on a failed ideology.

During times of economic growth we should not be needing to add to deficits, but Trump and Republicans did so anyway and put us on a course where deficits are on the incline as we approach our next economic cycle peak. FY2019 will end up close to $960 billion and for FY2020 it will eclipse $1 Trillion. There is no known principle of economics that suggests adding to deficits just cause, and if our “great great economy” was so great it would not need this sort of fiscal policy.

Look at it this way, Republicans knowingly or not are further marrying economic direction on government spending dependence which is every bit anti-capitalist as you can be.

Those of us awake the day they taught economics in economics class already knows the government is an active part of the economy, and is the one entity in the GDP math that can come in and deal with aggregate demand fault.

When the economy goes south, it is up to the GS part of the GDP equation to come in with less consideration for tax revenues (i.e. deficits should increase.) When the economy is going well, it is up to the government to consider their spending in relation to what tax revenues are generating (i.e. deficits should decrease.)

Trump and Republicans in the 115th decided their buddies wanted a tax break and changed the tax revenue line at a point when the economy is going well, that was unnecessary and put us on a fiscal course where deficits are sharply up FY2018 to FY2019 to FY2020 and when the economy goes south the government will be in a worse fiscal position to do their one job when that happens. Even as a percentage of GDP conditions are not good. FY2018 the number was something like 3.8%, for FY2020 it will end up being 5.1% with no real indication that the thread will change course.

Republicans have always failed at this. The tax breaks end up never paying for themselves because the debt shows first and carries, spending predictably goes up anyway, deficits go up at the wrong time economically speaking, and ultimately Total Debt goes up anyway. Tax revenues never bring it all back, and never seem to line up to where we are in the economic cycle.

You “fiscal conservatives” realize (while supposedly always so worried about fiscal policy, the value of money, and debt) that we have broken 4 treasury auctions in a row? And that has not happened in over a decade. Literally in the Fed notes they mention that banks are clogged with money to loan.

Now come back with how Trump and Republicans in the 115th did the right thing, go ahead convince me. And that is the point of this thread, if the economy is doing so well we have no real reason to run the deficits we are.
 
Last edited:
Suddenly you care about context. How about some real numbers then showing not only was spending relative to GDP high, but total spending was the highest ever at the time, with Democrats holding total control in 2009-2010.

2006 2,655.1
2007 2,728.7
2008 2,982.5
2009 3,517.7
2010 3,457.1

And now with them in charge of the appropriations and taxes, the deficit and spending is creeping back up.
Face it. This idea that Democrats are any better than Republicans on spending is the real myth. Accept it and we can move forward. Do you even care about debt or just as a tool to blast Republicans?

Democrats are no better than Republicans, Republicans are no better than Democrats. There is no party of fiscal responsibility. Whichever party is out of power is the one that harps on deficit spending.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom