Brothers Emerge as Key Suspects in U.K. Terror Plot [title changed]

[ProudAmerican]

Only the wiretaps are not of al - Qaeda alone, but all of us, everyone.
Source 1
Source 2

Mind you that the NSA is barred from domestic surveillence without court approval. So yes indeed,this is quite illegal.

if you think those two links settles the debate, you are sadly mistaken. the media has proven time and again it cant find its own *** with both hands.

how do these so called "wire taps" work? what do they record? what makes them illegal? what does Alberto Gonzales have to say about them? (i would say his opinion on the matter holds much more weight than the times)

if the taps are designed to intercept calls comming from outside the country by al queda operatives, then there are no laws that should be followed as the perpetrators are not U.S. citizens and are not afforded rights under our laws.

period.

 

[ProudAmerican]

and for a much les biased point of view

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_controversy

Soon after the September 11, 2001 attacks (or perhaps earlier[4]), U.S. President George W. Bush issued an executive order that authorized the National Security Agency (NSA) to conduct surveillance of certain telephone calls of a person in the United States without obtaining a warrant from a FISA court either before or after the surveillance. The complete details of this authorization are not known, but it is believed to cover telephone calls involving a person suspected of having links to terrorist organizations such as al-Qaeda or its affiliates and with one party to the call outside the United States.

interesting. sounds like EXACTLY what I said.

now, if the call involves a person OUTSIDE the country, that IS NOT A CITIZEN, and IS A MEMBER OF AL QUEDA, should the government have to follow the LAWS THAT PERTAIN TO US CITIZENS?

I say absolutely not.

you can not handcuff the government and then complain about how inept they are when terrorists hit us and kill Americans.

 

[jfuh]

Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

Learn to read, I already explained this to you in the previous post:

The administration said quite specifically that it was AQ that was in IRaq. However as the sources I cited have prooved. Your insistance on SP is flat out false. SP was a counter-terrorism training ground, not terrorist training ground.
Also, even if it were, OBL is in Afganistan along the Pakistan border. Not Iraq. Your argument is moot.

lmfao you just don't get it no attention was diverted we have more than enough military strength under to fight two simultaneous wars under the 2MTV.

True, however, where then is OBL? Why haven't we caught him? The very fact that he has not been caught tells me that there is not a sufficient force in that area; or that we are not putting enough effort into it, perhaps side tracked by Iraq.

 

[ProudAmerican]

Like I said, come back when you're not going around in circles.

nice dodge.

so why should the government have to follow the same laws with regards to al queda terroirsts that they must follow when it comes to U.S. citizens again?

no circles. just a legitimate question that you refuse to answer.

 

[ProudAmerican]

True, however, where then is OBL? Why haven't we caught him? The very fact that he has not been caught tells me that there is not a sufficient force in that area; or that we are not putting enough effort into it, perhaps side tracked by Iraq.

tell ya what......you pick a golf course......any golf course. I will take a dime, and paint it flourecent orange.

I will hide said dime on said golf course. you try to find it.

let me know how long it takes you.

perhaps side tracked by Iraq.

perhaps its just a big *** golf course.

 

[hipsterdufus]

You're big on civil rights so let me ask you what do you feel is the most important civil liberty?

I'll weigh in here:

1. freedom of and from religion
2. freedom of speech
3. due process, fair trial
4. privacy

 

[hipsterdufus]

tell ya what......you pick a golf course......any golf course. I will take a dime, and paint it flourecent orange.

I will hide said dime on said golf course. you try to find it.

let me know how long it takes you.

perhaps its just a big *** golf course.

Our government spy planes could easily find that orange dime.

 

[ProudAmerican]

Our government spy planes could easily find that orange dime.

nope. even a spy plane can see it where I would hide it.

next!!!

see, I said it would be painted orange, but I never said it would be in plain view.

do you think osama is wearing an orange robe and standing in someones front yard waiving his arms around screaming "here, look at me, yeeee hawwwwww"

 

[jfuh]

if you think those two links settles the debate, you are sadly mistaken. the media has proven time and again it cant find its own *** with both hands.

So the fact that it is from two different sources and confirmed later by adminsitration officials and congressional leaders even with Bush coming out to say that it is indeed the case, bears no weight to you?

how do these so called "wire taps" work? what do they record? what makes them illegal? what does Alberto Gonzales have to say about them? (i would say his opinion on the matter holds much more weight than the times)

Gonzales works for Bush, it's his job to say that the wiretaps are legal.
The USA today news source states quite clearly how the wiretaps work and what is recorded. Again, the NSA can not put taps onto domestic without court approval. Note how Qwest denied to cooperate asking for FISA approval from the NSA, but the NSA never did so. So far the facts speaks for themselves. There has been no oversight nor approval from congress or the judiciary - hence illegal.

if the taps are designed to intercept calls comming from outside the country by al queda operatives, then there are no laws that should be followed as the perpetrators are not U.S. citizens and are not afforded rights under our laws.

That's right proud, tens of millions of Americans are in contact with Al Queda operatives. :roll: How dense can you be?

 

[jfuh]

nice dodge.

so why should the government have to follow the same laws with regards to al queda terroirsts that they must follow when it comes to U.S. citizens again?

no circles. just a legitimate question that you refuse to answer.

I already answered it before PA, perhaps you forgot? FISA look into it.

 

[jfuh]

tell ya what......you pick a golf course......any golf course. I will take a dime, and paint it flourecent orange.

I will hide said dime on said golf course. you try to find it.

let me know how long it takes you.

Sure, gimmie 20 ppl and 20 metal detectors.

perhaps its just a big *** golf course.

Smaller then the gulf course in Iraq, oh and the dime is indeed in Afganistan, no doubts or even question about it.

 

[jfuh]

nope. even a spy plane can see it where I would hide it.

next!!!

see, I said it would be painted orange, but I never said it would be in plain view.

do you think osama is wearing an orange robe and standing in someones front yard waiving his arms around screaming "here, look at me, yeeee hawwwwww"

If we're going to use a spy plane, then an infrared camera would easily pick up your orange dime, hell it would find all the "missing" dimes on the golf course.

 

[ProudAmerican]

Sure, gimmie 20 ppl and 20 metal detectors.

no problem. its a wooden dime.

you can have 40 people if you like.

Smaller then the gulf course in Iraq, oh and the dime is indeed in Afganistan, no doubts or even question about it.

Osama could be anywhere in the middle east. a much larger area in comparison to my golf course analogy.

to make it comparable, I should probably be allowed 3 or 4 golf courses, but I will just stick with one.

pebble beach ok with you? ive always wanted to play a round there.

let me know when you want to get started.

 

[ProudAmerican]

If we're going to use a spy plane, then an infrared camera would easily pick up your orange dime, hell it would find all the "missing" dimes on the golf course.

but it couldnt tell me which one was the right one could it?

im sure our spy planes see tens of thousands of people every day from above.

all towel heads look the same from 60 thousand feet.

you guys can try to wreck this analagy all day if you like......the bottom line is, I have a wooden dime im ready to hide. you two let me know when you want to get started looking.

 

[jfuh]

no problem. its a wooden dime.

you can have 40 people if you like.

So now your changing the parameters around when the situation doesn't suit you? pathetic.
Fine change it to a wooden dime now. I'll simply flood the golf course ohh look, a orange wooden dime.

 

[jfuh]

Osama could be anywhere in the middle east. a much larger area in comparison to my golf course analogy.

Really? He could be huh? then we should invade every single country until we find him.:roll:
Lame.

to make it comparable, I should probably be allowed 3 or 4 golf courses, but I will just stick with one.

pebble beach ok with you? ive always wanted to play a round there.

let me know when you want to get started.

Let me know if it's getting too late for you and mommy's gonna call you in.

 

[ProudAmerican]

So now your changing the parameters around when the situation doesn't suit you? pathetic.
Fine change it to a wooden dime now. I'll simply flood the golf course ohh look, a orange wooden dime.

whats pathetic is you acting like you could succeed. when do we start?

 

[ProudAmerican]

Really? He could be huh? then we should invade every single country until we find him.
Lame.

yes really, he could be. if you know where he is then inform everyone else so we can end the search!!

Let me know if it's getting too late for you and mommy's gonna call you in.

ahhh, cant hang so time to start with insults eh? nice!!

it doesnt even have to be a dime. how about a golf ball?

 

[jfuh]

whats pathetic is you acting like you could succeed. when do we start?

You can go and waste your time on the golf course all you want. When you're up for serious debate come back without the rediculous circular arguments.

 

[jfuh]

yes really, he could be. if you know where he is then inform everyone else so we can end the search!!

Along the border of pakistan and afganistan. Where he's been since the initial invasion of afganistan. All intel indicates so.

ahhh, cant hang so time to start with insults eh? nice!!

it doesnt even have to be a dime. how about a golf ball?

So now that you got your a_ss kicked with first the metal dime, then the wooden time you're going to change to a golf ball? Again just use Infra red, it'll stand out quite strongly from the back ground.

 

[ProudAmerican]

You can go and waste your time on the golf course all you want. When you're up for serious debate come back without the rediculous circular arguments.

code for "I know it would be impossible for me to find it. I also know its very difficult for the government to cover such a large are looking for one man, but my blind partisanship forces me to condemn that government anyway, because its led by a republican"

talk about pathetic!!!

 

[disneydude]

If Bush had approached Bin Laden and Al Qaeda with even a fraction of the interest that he put towards Iraq there is a lot better chance that we could have captured Bin Laden and we certainly could have contained Al Qadea much better than they are.

Instead, Bush gave in to Cheney/Rumsfield et al who had been looking for any reason to invade Iraq and used this opportunity to do so.

The fact that Bush made a conscious choice to focus the energy of the military towards a country that was no threat to the US rather than go after those who attacked American Citizens on American soil is the reason why we are in this mess today.

It struck me all over again last weekend when I went to see "World Trade Center". (I know its just a film....but the emotions are real). We had the sympathy and support of the world's communities and Bush squandered it all away at the whim of his advisors. Bush has put the United States and the world for that matter in such a bad state by his ignorance and misdirection that it will take us decades to recover and regain the levels of support and respect that we enjoyed for so many decades.

 

[ProudAmerican]

The fact that Bush made a conscious choice to focus the energy of the military towards a country that was no threat to the US rather than go after those who attacked American Citizens on American soil is the reason why we are in this mess today.

more partisan B.S.

dont look now, but we are fighting the very same people you claim we should be focusing our attention on in Iraq.

lol.

 

[disneydude]

PA:

You probably need to check your facts a little. There is very little Al Qaeda in Iraq today and there was none when we invaded. The vast majority of the insurgency in Iraq have no connection to Al Qaeda.

 

[Gill]

Again just use Infra red, it'll stand out quite strongly from the back ground.

You don't know much about infrared cameras do you? An object will only "stand out" through an infrared imager if it is measureably hotter or colder than its background. There are dozens of ways to hide something so that it would be invisible to an infrared imager.