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Brothers Emerge as Key Suspects in U.K. Terror Plot [title changed]

Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

First I believe your post is in violation of the breaking news format.
Secondly, how was the British intelligence community handcuffed? They had the proper go ahead through the courts - hence legal.
So please explain to the rest of us whom are ignorant of how the "liberal left" is trying to handcuff the intelligence community.
 
Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

jfuh said:
Secondly, how was the British intelligence community handcuffed? They had the proper go ahead through the courts - hence legal.
So please explain to the rest of us whom are ignorant of how the "liberal left" is trying to handcuff the intelligence community.
How do you know it was British intelligence that intercepted the phone call? How do you know they had court approval to do so?

The problem is that the American left wishes to handcuff the US government in its efforts to protect American citizens, as evidenced by the uproar over the NSA eavesdropping program. Does that explain it to you?
 
Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

Diogenes said:
How do you know it was British intelligence that intercepted the phone call? How do you know they had court approval to do so?

The problem is that the American left wishes to handcuff the US government in its efforts to protect American citizens, as evidenced by the uproar over the NSA eavesdropping program. Does that explain it to you?

...Uh....just a quick point. The NSA issue has less to do with allowing wiretaps, the turmoil has more to do with bypassing Laws, and courts to do so. The Brits have a bit more leeway where monitoring is involved, and thats obviously a good thing....but they do so LEGALLY as far as we know....you would need to show otherwise to be taken seriously.
 
Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

First I believe your post is in violation of the breaking news format.

how so?

Secondly, how was the British intelligence community handcuffed? They had the proper go ahead through the courts - hence legal.

the problem is the left cant prove anything other than this is being done in America.

but it doesnt stop them from playing politics.
 
Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

Diogenes said:
How do you know it was British intelligence that intercepted the phone call? How do you know they had court approval to do so?

The problem is that the American left wishes to handcuff the US government in its efforts to protect American citizens, as evidenced by the uproar over the NSA eavesdropping program. Does that explain it to you?
Because this was a joint British and Pakistani operation where they followed up on leads they got after thier July 7th bombings in 2005. Read the article. The US played back up and not the lead here.
Also again, how do leftists wish to "handcuff" the gov exactly? The Brits seemed to have no problem with going the legal route and acquiring credible good intel.
 
Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

ProudAmerican said:
REad the rules, you will find that the title is wrong for the breaking news section. I'm surprised the mods haven't picked up on this yet.

the problem is the left cant prove anything other than this is being done in America.

but it doesnt stop them from playing politics.[/quote]This is being done in America? Was it? This was a British operation, not American. Or are you attempting as usual to spin the facts around in your favor? A common strategy of the Bushnevicks.
 
Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

Does anyone else find it interesting that the alleged call came from the Pakistan/Afghanistan border where.....hmmmmmmm....Bin Laden and Al qaeda were when King George was convinced by Rumsfield/Cheney that it would be better to attack Iraq, which had no connection to Al Qaeda at the time. Hmmmmm..Anyone else think that this latest incident indicates that maybe.....just maybe.....it would have made a hell of a lot more sense to stay in the area.....when we had Bin Laden in our sights....than.....say.....attack a country with no connections to Al Qaeda which wasn't a threat to the United States.....but.....well.....had a hell of a lot of oil........and would make King Georges "base" filthy rich........hmmmmmm.......personally I think it would have made more sense to stay the attack in Afgahnistan......maybe then we wouldn't even be talking about this latest plan.........just a thought.
 
Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

disneydude said:
Does anyone else find it interesting that the alleged call came from the Pakistan/Afghanistan border where.....hmmmmmmm....Bin Laden and Al qaeda were when King George was convinced by Rumsfield/Cheney that it would be better to attack Iraq, which had no connection to Al Qaeda at the time. Hmmmmm..Anyone else think that this latest incident indicates that maybe.....just maybe.....it would have made a hell of a lot more sense to stay in the area.....when we had Bin Laden in our sights....than.....say.....attack a country with no connections to Al Qaeda which wasn't a threat to the United States.....but.....well.....had a hell of a lot of oil........and would make King Georges "base" filthy rich........hmmmmmm.......personally I think it would have made more sense to stay the attack in Afgahnistan......maybe then we wouldn't even be talking about this latest plan.........just a thought.
Exactly, wanna attack Iraq because of whatever frivolous reason, fine. At least finish one war before you start another.
This is a very good point.
Why the hell, when we know for a fact that OBL is somewhere along the border of Afgan and Pakistan are we turning our attention around and looking to Iraq where we believed there was kinda a connection? Fearing that OBL would suddenly cross all the way over Afganistan through Iran and into Iraq? Seriously ppl come on.
For all those apologetics and other fundamentalists that still feel this administration did not lie, I ask you, why did we not put more effort into Afganistan, and not doing so now? Why did we not send in our "overwhelming" force into Afganistan where we knew for a fact that AQ was located and instead decided to search for AQ in Iraq? Something doesn't seem to add up here.
 
Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

disneydude said:
Does anyone else find it interesting that the alleged call came from the Pakistan/Afghanistan border where.....hmmmmmmm....Bin Laden and Al qaeda were when King George was convinced by Rumsfield/Cheney that it would be better to attack Iraq, which had no connection to Al Qaeda at the time. Hmmmmm..Anyone else think that this latest incident indicates that maybe.....just maybe.....it would have made a hell of a lot more sense to stay in the area.....when we had Bin Laden in our sights....than.....say.....attack a country with no connections to Al Qaeda which wasn't a threat to the United States.....but.....well.....had a hell of a lot of oil........and would make King Georges "base" filthy rich........hmmmmmm.......personally I think it would have made more sense to stay the attack in Afgahnistan......maybe then we wouldn't even be talking about this latest plan.........just a thought.

That's not what happened

A) We're still in Afghanistan.

B) The reason why we failed to capture bin-Laden is not because we went into Iraq it is because we failed to cut off his escape root along the Pakistani border which in hindsite was a huge military blunder, however, the President does not create military plans that's up to his generals.
 
Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

jfuh said:
Exactly, wanna attack Iraq because of whatever frivolous reason, fine. At least finish one war before you start another.
This is a very good point.
Why the hell, when we know for a fact that OBL is somewhere along the border of Afgan and Pakistan are we turning our attention around and looking to Iraq where we believed there was kinda a connection? Fearing that OBL would suddenly cross all the way over Afganistan through Iran and into Iraq? Seriously ppl come on.
For all those apologetics and other fundamentalists that still feel this administration did not lie, I ask you, why did we not put more effort into Afganistan, and not doing so now? Why did we not send in our "overwhelming" force into Afganistan where we knew for a fact that AQ was located and instead decided to search for AQ in Iraq? Something doesn't seem to add up here.

Because we didn't want to get bogged down in Afghanistan with a ground invasion like the Soviets. Aside from the failure to cut off Bin-Laden's escape route our strategy to use the Northern Alliance backed by small contingents of special forces personnel in combination with American air power worked perfectly.
 
Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

I realize that we still have some minimal troops in Afghanistan. The point I am making it.....with the latest information that the foiled terrorist plot originated from the Pakistan/Afghanistan border where we knew Bin Laden was..........it just shows how GWB and his foreign policy have absolutely no plan and no idea even what is going on.

Why do we switch our focus from Afghanistan were we know Al Qaeda was (is) and direct our majority of forces on Iraq, where Al Qadea wasn't.

Factor in the fact that Rumsfield and Cheney were looking for any excuse to invade Iraq....and Bingo ....you have an explanation for why America is still under the threat of Al Qaeda.

Its time we had a leader who understands what is going on in the world and can take action that REALLY protects America......not just in words but in action.

Its time that we have a Congress that will hold these neo-cons responsible for their stupidity and their deception.
 
Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

jfuh said:
REad the rules, you will find that the title is wrong for the breaking news section. I'm surprised the mods haven't picked up on this yet.

the problem is the left cant prove anything other than this is being done in America.

but it doesnt stop them from playing politics.
This is being done in America? Was it? This was a British operation, not American. Or are you attempting as usual to spin the facts around in your favor? A common strategy of the Bushnevicks.[/QUOTE]


Im aware of the rules. this is the second time today the title has changed on me after I created the thread.


and are you now claiming the left hasnt been raising a stink about our government listening in on al queda phone calls?
 
Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

disneydude said:
I realize that we still have some minimal troops in Afghanistan. The point I am making it.....with the latest information that the foiled terrorist plot originated from the Pakistan/Afghanistan border where we knew Bin Laden was..........it just shows how GWB and his foreign policy have absolutely no plan and no idea even what is going on.

Why do we switch our focus from Afghanistan were we know Al Qaeda was (is) and direct our majority of forces on Iraq, where Al Qadea wasn't.

Factor in the fact that Rumsfield and Cheney were looking for any excuse to invade Iraq....and Bingo ....you have an explanation for why America is still under the threat of Al Qaeda.

Its time we had a leader who understands what is going on in the world and can take action that REALLY protects America......not just in words but in action.

Its time that we have a Congress that will hold these neo-cons responsible for their stupidity and their deception.

We didn't need to shift any resources due to the way the military is designed.

After the end of the cold war the "two major theater war strategy" was born. The United States military has been designed to fight two major wars at one time:

Major Theater War

Supporting the National Security Strategy of Engagement and Enlargement required that the United States maintain robust and versatile military forces that can accomplish a wide variety of missions, as delineated in the Bottom-Up Review: US forces must be able to offset the military power of regional states with interests opposed to those of the United States and its allies. To do this, the United States must be able to credibly deter and, if required, decisively defeat aggression, in concert with regional allies, by projecting and sustaining US power in two nearly simultaneous major regional conflicts (MRCs). The Clinton Administration's Quadrennial Defense Review's (QDR) redefined this requirement as the ability to fight two nearly simultaneous major theater wars (MTWs).

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/mtw.htm
 
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Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

ProudAmerican said:
Im aware of the rules. this is the second time today the title has changed on me after I created the thread.
Just letting you know. If you're aware of them, abide by them.

ProudAmerican said:
and are you now claiming the left hasnt been raising a stink about our government listening in on al queda phone calls?
The left hasn't had any issue with the wiretapping. What we've had issue with was warrentless wiretapping. otherwise known as breaking the law.
 
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Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Because we didn't want to get bogged down in Afghanistan with a ground invasion like the Soviets. Aside from the failure to cut off Bin-Laden's escape route our strategy to use the Northern Alliance backed by small contingents of special forces personnel in combination with American air power worked perfectly.
Oh that's brilliant. Because we don't want to get bogged down in Afganistan so we go and invade Iraq - how the **** does invading Iraq take care of OBL being in Afganistan? How the **** does taking out saddam increase our chances of capturing OBL. Did the capture of Saddam lead to any intel to give us the whereabouts of OBL? No, why? Because Saddam had nothing to do with OBL nor AQ.

Seriously now, I'm very curious and I really want to know why we left Afganistan and went into IRaq to go after OBL when we knew for a fact that he was in Afganistan. Obviously you apologetics know something the rest of us are simply not getting. So why, why did we invade Iraq to go after AQ when we knew for a fact that AQ is in Afganistan?
 
Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

ProudAmerican said:
and I agree its not news we are fighting al queda in Iraq. there just tons of liberals that are liars and claim they supported our actions in afghanistan because we were fighting terrorists.

More BS without supportive data.

ProudAmerican said:
if you prove to be as juvenille as he is, you will end up on the same list hes on.

no sweat off my back.

Whhooooo!! I'm on a list. How cool. :cool:




First you say..
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Because we didn't want to get bogged down in Afghanistan
Then..
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
The United States military has been designed to fight two major wars at one time
:confused:
 
Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

galenrox said:
And that's all fine and good, but there are some logistical questions. For one, I believe FISA is a 9 member court (maybe 11, but I believe 9). And there are terrorists and suspected terrorists all over the world. And they call into the United States a lot. Thus there are thousands upon thousands of these phone calls, which would raise the question whether it is reasonable to believe that a 9 member court could look at and weigh all of these warrant requests, and give them enough time to make the right decision?

This question is intensified by this, apparantly most of the time when the phone tapping occurs, it is uncertain where exactly it is going, and thus it is unknown whether or not it is going to a foreign number, in which case a warrant would be unneccisary, or to a domestic number, in which case a warrant would be neccisary. Since going into the tapping it is unknown whether or not it will even fall under the FISA court's jurisdiction, it is impossible in many of these cases. Thus there is the 48 hours. For this to work the FISA court would be required to review all of these warrant requests in a ridiculously small amount of time, which would only make the issue I raised before, as I said, more intense.

I believe that checks on presidential authority are essential, and I believe that it says grave things about the Bush administration that, instead of adressing these problems before a closed session of congress, he just didn't mention it, and got all ****in indignant when he was called out on it. But that being said, saying you're entirely opposed to warrantless wiretapping means that you, at least to a certain degree, want to cut our intelligence agencies's balls off, since warrants, as we understand them, would mean either a 9 man court would have to work at an inhuman pace, or not give the warrants an improper amount of time and consideration (which makes the entire process of getting warrants pointless), or the intelligence agencies simply could not tap as many phones as are neccisary. Thus the fundamental idea behind warrants, for issues like this, has to change for us to succeed, and thus if we are to succeed, just about all of our wiretapping is going to have to be "warrantless".

Thoughts?

And this coming from one of if not the most admanant civili libertarian on this board.

One thing though the President got indignant because the information was leaked to the New York Times seriously jeopardizing national security.

Also, I believe that he WAS informing members of the Senate Intelligence Committe which in hindsight may have been a mistake seeing as how the information was somehow leaked to the press and I certainly wouldn't put that pass one of the Dems on the committee especially when you consider how much political mileage they attempted to get out of the story.
 
Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

BWG said:

Yes it's called the 2MTW 9to major theaters of war) strategy which has been the strategy behind the design of our military since the collapse of the Soviet Union. They don't have to shift any resources from Afghanistan because we already have more than enough military strength to effectively fight two major wars at one time.
 
Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

ProudAmerican said:
Im aware of the rules. this is the second time today the title has changed on me after I created the thread.

If you're aware of the rules, then there is no excuse for not following them.
 
Just letting you know. If you're aware of them, abide by them.
stop whinig.

when I linked the thread the title matched. I cant help it if the site changed something on me.
 
Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

Stace said:
If you're aware of the rules, then there is no excuse for not following them.


for *** sake, they were followed. youve seen me post in this forum more than once, and you have seen me follow the rules.

the site changed the title of the link.

if you think i intentionally didnt follow the rules, then lock the damn link. I will get over it.
 
Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

ProudAmerican said:
for *** sake, they were followed. youve seen me post in this forum more than once, and you have seen me follow the rules.

the site changed the title of the link.

if you think i intentionally didnt follow the rules, then lock the damn link. I will get over it.

Watch it. There's no need for that tone, nor the language.
 
Re: Intercepted call from Pakistan promtep British terror arrests...

Stace said:
Watch it. There's no need for that tone, nor the language.


theres also no need in harrasing me. I followed the rules. end of story.
 
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