Brexit/Trump - You don't get a Do-Over (1 Viewer)

[International10]

We all know the striking similarities between the Brexit Campaign and Donald Trump's Presidential Run. They are both based on Anger at a System they feel is not listening to them and Uncertainty towards an increasingly globalized planet, but mostly they are just about keeping immigrants out.

Despite all the warnings from intellectuals and experts Britain surprised everyone and voted to leave the European Union. Overnight they dropped from the 5th largest economy in the world to the 6th as the British Pound dropped to its lowest value in three decades. Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar are now beginning official talks of leaving the United Kingdom in order to stay part of Europe. Perhaps most striking of all is the unraveling of the Brexit campaign's promises as its leaders seem to have no path or plan to move forward and begin to openly admit that many of their promises during the campaign were woefully inaccurate.

I think what many British voters really wanted was a little excitement a chance to rock the boat and see what happens. Well Britain sure rocked the boat and now the country is a sinking ship. There is no do over.....

Pay attention America because when election day comes around there will be no do overs. The excitement, campaigning and hoopla will settle and the dust will clear and Donald Trump will be in the white house filming "The Apprentice" White House edition.

 

[cpwill]

We all know the striking similarities between the Brexit Campaign and Donald Trump's Presidential Run. They are both based on Anger at a System they feel is not listening to them and Uncertainty towards an increasingly globalized planet, but mostly they are just about keeping immigrants out.

Actually about A third of Brexit voters voted primarily on immigration issues. About half voted for Sovereignty.

...•Nearly half (49%) of leave voters said the biggest single reason for wanting to leave the EU was “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”. One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” Just over one in eight (13%) said remaining would mean having no choice “about how the EU expanded its membership or its powers in the years ahead.” Only just over one in twenty (6%) said their main reason was that “when it comes to trade and the economy, the UK would benefit more from being outside the EU than from being part of it.”...​

A similar phenomena can be found in the Trump candidacy, where about half of his supporters are actually in favor of amnesty.



Sorry. Didn't mean to ruin your self-congratulating narrative with pesky data.

 

[International10]

Actually about A third of Brexit voters voted primarily on immigration issues. About half voted for Sovereignty.

...•Nearly half (49%) of leave voters said the biggest single reason for wanting to leave the EU was “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”. One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” Just over one in eight (13%) said remaining would mean having no choice “about how the EU expanded its membership or its powers in the years ahead.” Only just over one in twenty (6%) said their main reason was that “when it comes to trade and the economy, the UK would benefit more from being outside the EU than from being part of it.”...​

A similar phenomena can be found in the Trump candidacy, where about half of his supporters are actually in favor of amnesty.



Sorry. Didn't mean to ruin your self-congratulating narrative with pesky data.

Sorry don't mean to ruin your self-congratulating response with pesky logic but the fact that only a simple majority of his followers are opposed to amnesty for illegal immigrants doesn't mean the simple minority isn't anti-immigration.

Someone can be for giving illegals that already live here amnesty (because they realize it would be too difficult to deport them all) while still supporting tougher border restrictions and even building the wall that Trump is constantly claiming he is going to build.

This question (Are immigrants a burden to society? to which 80% of Trump supporters responded YES) cuts a little more to the heart of the issue than policy specifics:
Poll: Trump supporters are scared of minorities, immigrants, and non-Christians

 

[cpwill]

Sorry don't mean to ruin your self-congratulating response with pesky logic but the fact that only a simple majority of his followers are opposed to amnesty for illegal immigrants doesn't mean the simple minority isn't anti-immigration

:shrug: no one is saying that they are or aren't.

What I am pointing out is that your claim here:

They are both based on Anger at a System they feel is not listening to them and Uncertainty towards an increasingly globalized planet, but mostly they are just about keeping immigrants out.

is, flatly, mathematically, untrue. :shrug:

:shrug: Nor is objecting to increased immigration inherently racist.

This question (Are immigrants a burden to society? to which 80% of Trump supporters responded YES) cuts a little more to the heart of the issue than policy specifics

....which is also not a racial position. We have mass illegal and family-based immigration that brings in large number of low-skill, low-education workers who, along with their families, then do indeed become burdens on our social structures. That's not racism - that's reality. The question is whether some of them earn/pay enough in taxes to make up for the costs incurred by the system. At least for illegal aliens, it seems the answer is "No".

 

[International10]

:shrug: no one is saying that they are or aren't.

What I am pointing out is that your claim here:



is, flatly, mathematically, untrue. :shrug:

:shrug: Nor is objecting to increased immigration inherently racist.



....which is also not a racial position. We have mass illegal and family-based immigration that brings in large number of low-skill, low-education workers who, along with their families, then do indeed become burdens on our social structures. That's not racism - that's reality. The question is whether some of them earn/pay enough in taxes to make up for the costs incurred by the system. At least for illegal aliens, it seems the answer is "No".

You still don't understand the logical fallacy in your assertion based on the facts you provided. I will just have to hope that at some point you realize that none of the statistics you provided show that Immigration is not the core issue with either campaign.

And you seem to think that I said being anti-immigrant was the same as being a racist which I didn't but now that you mention the topic I will just leave it at this "If you are anti-immigrant then that doesn't necessarily mean you are racist but if you are racist then you are probably anti-immigrant"

 

[Manc Skipper]

Actually we could get do-overs, since the referendum was advisory only. It will fall to Parliament to vote, since it is sovereign, and remain has the majority there. The fly in the ointment is the craven cowardice of our politicians.

 

[cpwill]

You still don't understand the logical fallacy in your assertion based on the facts you provided. I will just have to hope that at some point you realize that none of the statistics you provided show that Immigration is not the core issue with either campaign.

:shrug: they do. Immigration was a minority driver for Brexit, and fully half of Donald Trump voters want Amnesty, not mass-deportation. Sovereignty, and the sense that elites have become disconnected from the realities that face the people they govern are stronger drivers.

And you seem to think that I said being anti-immigrant was the same as being a racist which I didn't

That seemed to be a pretty clear assertion.

but now that you mention the topic I will just leave it at this "If you are anti-immigrant then that doesn't necessarily mean you are racist but if you are racist then you are probably anti-immigrant"

That is probably true.

 

[American]

We all know the striking similarities between the Brexit Campaign and Donald Trump's Presidential Run. They are both based on Anger at a System they feel is not listening to them and Uncertainty towards an increasingly globalized planet, but mostly they are just about keeping immigrants out.

Despite all the warnings from intellectuals and experts Britain surprised everyone and voted to leave the European Union. Overnight they dropped from the 5th largest economy in the world to the 6th as the British Pound dropped to its lowest value in three decades. Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar are now beginning official talks of leaving the United Kingdom in order to stay part of Europe. Perhaps most striking of all is the unraveling of the Brexit campaign's promises as its leaders seem to have no path or plan to move forward and begin to openly admit that many of their promises during the campaign were woefully inaccurate.

I think what many British voters really wanted was a little excitement a chance to rock the boat and see what happens. Well Britain sure rocked the boat and now the country is a sinking ship. There is no do over.....

Pay attention America because when election day comes around there will be no do overs. The excitement, campaigning and hoopla will settle and the dust will clear and Donald Trump will be in the white house filming "The Apprentice" White House edition.

Melodramatic :lamo

 

[American]

Actually we could get do-overs, since the referendum was advisory only. It will fall to Parliament to vote, since it is sovereign, and remain has the majority there. The fly in the ointment is the craven cowardice of our politicians.

I hope you guys leave the EU. Watching the EUers squirm with be entertaining.

 

[Manc Skipper]

I hope you guys leave the EU. Watching the EUers squirm with be entertaining.

Likewise when your economy goes tits-up in response.

 

[American]

Likewise when your economy goes tits-up in response.

It won't, but yours might.

 

[International10]

Melodramatic :lamo

Melodramatic? All I did was list the actual fallout from the UK's decision to go it alone......

 

[American]

Melodramatic? All I did was list the actual fallout from the UK's decision to go it alone......

 

[Erod]

Notice how much better England's markets are doing compared to the EU countries since the Brexit vote.

Germany is getting slaughtered.