Born again abortion clinics

[Jerry]

Here is a sample of wire hangers I offer, please select the one you would personally proffer as I wish to offer only the best:

Or, if you know of a better model, please let me know.

 

[Jerry]

Does anyone want to talk about that priest yet?

...'cuz if not I've got more material on do-it-yourself Hang'ing® kits....

 

[OKgrannie]

So you discredit RvW on the basis that SCOTUS is unqualified to decide law.

SCOTUS decided RvW on the basis that the so-called "moral" anti-abortion law was NOT law. I didn't say government was incapable of making law, just incapable of making MORALITY laws. Government is incapable of discerning morality from immorality. It is also incapable of enforcing "morality" laws, as people prefer to decide such things for themselves.

Although you missed the greater point I made, yes, I am as qualified as every other registered voter to decide what is "need".
Objective measurements can be made by anyone.

Being registered to vote doesn't make you qualified to decide "need" for someone else.

Desperation to needlessly kill her own child is not a noble condition, it therefore is unworthy of sympathy.

NEED? You're still not qualified.

In so far as blame is concerned, who do you think made the wire hanger she used available to her by placing a box of them right next to the free condoms, free BC samples and stack of $2 off OTC M.A.P. coupons?
ME!

If you're serious about the tragic deaths of so-called "children", your flippancy is in bad taste.

So if I am to blame for her Hang'ing® herself, then those who pass out condoms are to blame for kids having sex.

As if kids won't have sex if they don't have condoms. And women won't have abortions if they're illegal.:rofl

Yes we are violent creatures. We war quite well. We keep your homes safe. We protect you from intruders. We safe guard the family from evil people and good people who do stupid things.
One enemy-of-the-family we have thus far been unable to protect our children from is a mother who doesn't see the life of her child worth saving.

Mothers are capable of protecting their own children, but many of them don't see a zef as being the same as a child. It has been that way since the dawn of history and most likely will never change. So keep beating your head against that wall.

 

[Jerry]

SCOTUS decided RvW on the basis that the so-called "moral" anti-abortion law was NOT law. I didn't say government was incapable of making law, just incapable of making MORALITY laws. Government is incapable of discerning morality from immorality. It is also incapable of enforcing "morality" laws, as people prefer to decide such things for themselves.

Wow, that's not even close to SCOTUS's reasoning for their ruling, but discussing such is for another thread I suppose.

Being registered to vote doesn't make you qualified to decide "need" for someone else.

NEED? You're still not qualified.

I sure am, Objective measures can be made by anyone. You don't need to be a surgeon to measure 40cc of a given fluid.

If you're serious about the tragic deaths of so-called "children", your flippancy is in bad taste.

If PC wants me to start caring about their suicide and self mutilations, then PC will have to start caring about children. So long as PC endorses a woman killing her own child, it has no ground to care about the woman's own life. PC debases itself.

It’s utter hypocrisy to say that the child is expendable but the woman is not.

As if kids won't have sex if they don't have condoms. And women won't have abortions if they're illegal.:rofl

That's exactly my point.

You can't blame PL for women Hang'ing® themselves anymore than PL can blame free condoms for kids having sex.

This is yet another point of your own you have defeated.

Mothers are capable of protecting their own children, but many of them don't see a zef as being the same as a child. It has been that way since the dawn of history and most likely will never change. So keep beating your head against that wall.

Well you know there will always be drug abuse, murder, prostitution, etc, etc, so the existence of these women is really no different. In order to reduce the number of occurrences as much as possible one must argue for absolute eradication, even though absolute eradication will not occur. To argue anything less is to give more ground than necessary.

Set your goals to the highest, that way should you fail you will still achieve more than if you set your goals lower.

How many times do I have to warn PC that the only way you can survive a debate is by staying in you “current legal standing” shell. You still won’t win, but at least you won’t get squished.

Did you want to discuss the topic of this thread yet?

 

[Jerry]

How insensitive of me to offer wire hangers without also offering the ability to see what she is doing!

This high powered magnifying mirror with a directional light beam and hand-held detail reflector, will always give you a clear, precise view even if your vision is less than perfect. Comes with traveling case and replacement mirror.

Free latex exam gloves included.

 

[OKgrannie]

I sure am, Objective measures can be made by anyone.

Anyone with objectivity...which you lack.

If PC wants me to start caring about their suicide and self mutilations, then PC will have to start caring about children. So long as PC endorses a woman killing her own child, it has no ground to care about the woman's own life. PC debases itself.
It’s utter hypocrisy to say that the child is expendable but the woman is not.

It's utter foolishness to say that a zef is of equal value to a woman.

That's exactly my point.
You can't blame PL for women Hang'ing® themselves anymore than PL can blame free condoms for kids having sex.
This is yet another point of your own you have defeated.

Yet if you criminalize condoms, one might blame the criminalizers for unwanted pregnancies, since they passed the law with the full knowledge that unavailability of condoms would have the result of pregnancy. Just as criminalizing abortion means the unavailability of safe abortion will drive women to unsafe abortion. You criminalizers will have a lot of deaths on your hands, and still not save a single "baby."

Well you know there will always be drug abuse, murder, prostitution, etc, etc, so the existence of these women is really no different. In order to reduce the number of occurrences as much as possible one must argue for absolute eradication, even though absolute eradication will not occur. To argue anything less is to give more ground than necessary.

It really is different since drug abuse, murder, etc. has a profound effect on society. Abortion really effects no one but the pregnant woman.

Did you want to discuss the topic of this thread yet?

Sure, I think this particular tactic of PL is disgusting, yet is shows how far PL will go in order to "win" as they put it. The fact is that no one wins by criminalizing abortion.

 

[Jerry]

Anyone with objectivity...which you lack.

That's just your opinion, only.

It's utter foolishness to say that a zef is of equal value to a woman.

Both are temples of the holy spirit.
A ZEF is either an extension of God or a person in it's own right, so either way it is worthy of as much respect as it's mother.

Yet if you criminalize condoms, one might blame the criminalizers for unwanted pregnancies, since they passed the law with the full knowledge that unavailability of condoms would have the result of pregnancy. Just as criminalizing abortion means the unavailability of safe abortion will drive women to unsafe abortion.

Quite right, which is why I don't support making wire hangers illegal. In fact, I'd pass them out for free, as I would condoms and other contraceptives.

You criminalizers will have a lot of deaths on your hands, and still not save a single "baby."

Collateral damage. These women are going to kill their child no matter what, so since there's no stopping them, we might as well make sure they take themselves out in the process.

Once nearly all the pro-abortion women have killed them selves off, there will remain only a manageable, negligible few who would still scoop their organs out with a spork, er I mean, self-abortion with a hanger.

Usually a crime gets blamed on the one who uses the weapon and causes the damage, in this case the who woman Hangs® herself, but it's more comfortable for you to place responsibility on a man, who only stands there with a box of hangers. It's typical liberal feminism.

It really is different since drug abuse, murder, etc. has a profound effect on society. Abortion really effects no one but the pregnant woman.

Well see, being the man in that position twice, I know otherwise. It was my children who were aborted, so yes it bears a strong impact on me to this very day.

I wonder if you would also argue that a miscarriage only affects the woman, and not the father? Not any of the rest of the family, not even children who were watching their brother or sister grow in their mother? No? No impact? No effect?

If your premise is true, then crib death only effects the baby, and not even the mother "'cuz her body is not effected". Please link to where you have made that argument.

Sure, I think this particular tactic of PL is disgusting, yet is shows how far PL will go in order to "win" as they put it. The fact is that no one wins by criminalizing abortion.

The solution lay outside of law, of what is a criminal act and what is not.

The solution is to wait until your in a loving, committed relationship (ie; engaged) before "test-driving" your hubby. Be ready to have a family before trying to start one.

But then, feminism is all about throwing off responsibility, so I doubt that that will ever fly with them.

Did you find anything that priest yet?

 

[1069]

That's just your opinion, only.



Both are temples of the holy spirit.
A ZEF is either an extension of God or a person in it's own right, so either way it is worthy of as much respect as it's mother.



Quite right, which is why I don't support making wire hangers illegal. In fact, I'd pass them out for free, as I would condoms and other contraceptives.



Collateral damage. These women are going to kill their child no matter what, so since there's no stopping them, we might as well make sure they take themselves out in the process.

Once nearly all the pro-abortion women have killed them selves off, there will remain only a manageable, negligible few who would still scoop their organs out with a spork, er I mean, self-abortion with a hanger.

Usually a crime gets blamed on the one who uses the weapon and causes the damage, in this case the who woman Hangs® herself, but it's more comfortable for you to place responsibility on a man, who only stands there with a box of hangers. It's typical liberal feminism.



Well see, being the man in that position twice, I know otherwise. It was my children who were aborted, so yes it bears a strong impact on me to this very day.

I wonder if you would also argue that a miscarriage only affects the woman, and not the father? Not any of the rest of the family, not even children who were watching their brother or sister grow in their mother? No? No impact? No effect?

If your premise is true, then crib death only effects the baby, and not even the mother "'cuz her body is not effected". Please link to where you have made that argument.



The solution lay outside of law, of what is a criminal act and what is not.

The solution is to wait until your in a loving, committed relationship (ie; engaged) before "test-driving" your hubby. Be ready to have a family before trying to start one.

But then, feminism is all about throwing off responsibility, so I doubt that that will ever fly with them.

Did you find anything that priest yet?

Ironic, with this attitude, that Jerry's wife has had not one but two abortions, which he claims to have pushed her into.
Perhaps either Jerry, his wife, or both of them should be retroactively Hanged®?
I vote for Jerry.
Being this big a chump should have consequences.
And coercing females into multiple abortions should- should- forfeit your right to ever again behave self-righteously and judgementally.
The fact that it doesn't - the fact that nothing does- is the reason the prolife movement has little to no credibility.
A movement with people like Jerry for spokesmen cannot possibly hope to be taken seriously by society at large.

 

[OKgrannie]

That's just your opinion, only.

True, my opinion based on my observations.

Both are temples of the holy spirit.
A ZEF is either an extension of God or a person in it's own right, so either way it is worthy of as much respect as it's mother.

Our laws are not based on considerations of "holy spirit" or "God", and a zef is clearly not a candidate for personhood. As long as a zef is dependent on a woman for life, it is worthy of as much respect as she decides.

Quite right, which is why I don't support making wire hangers illegal. In fact, I'd pass them out for free, as I would condoms and other contraceptives.

Generous fella, aren't you?

Collateral damage. These women are going to kill their child no matter what, so since there's no stopping them, we might as well make sure they take themselves out in the process.

Once nearly all the pro-abortion women have killed them selves off, there will remain only a manageable, negligible few who would still scoop their organs out with a spork, er I mean, self-abortion with a hanger.

The only thing is that women tend to change their minds about abortion once it involves them personally. There will be an ever changing opinion, and you will NEVER eliminate pro-choice women.

Usually a crime gets blamed on the one who uses the weapon and causes the damage, in this case the who woman Hangs® herself, but it's more comfortable for you to place responsibility on a man, who only stands there with a box of hangers. It's typical liberal feminism.

The blame for abortion deaths falls on the population that knowing women will have abortions yet denied women the availability of safe abortion.

Well see, being the man in that position twice, I know otherwise. It was my children who were aborted, so yes it bears a strong impact on me to this very day.

I wonder if you would also argue that a miscarriage only affects the woman, and not the father? Not any of the rest of the family, not even children who were watching their brother or sister grow in their mother? No? No impact? No effect?

If your premise is true, then crib death only effects the baby, and not even the mother "'cuz her body is not effected". Please link to where you have made that argument.

It was generous of your significant other to share the experience with you, since she need not have done so. Those who do not know of the pregnancy cannot be damaged by the end of it. Children are amazingly unaware of pregnancy and little affected by the end of it. Crib death affects those who "knew" the baby, abortion likewise affects only those who "knew" the fetus, and that can only be few.

The solution is to wait until your in a loving, committed relationship (ie; engaged) before "test-driving" your hubby. Be ready to have a family before trying to start one.

But then, feminism is all about throwing off responsibility, so I doubt that that will ever fly with them.

That solution would help if applied, unfortunately, it has never really worked. I suspect that most test-driving has been done at the request of men, and therefore you need to appeal to them on that issue, and that is not throwing off responsibility, but assigning it properly.

 

[OKgrannie]

Ironic, with this attitude, that Jerry's wife has had not one but two abortions, which he claims to have pushed her into.
Perhaps either Jerry, his wife, or both of them should be retroactively Hanged®?
I vote for Jerry.
Being this big a chump should have consequences.
And coercing females into multiple abortions should- should- forfeit your right to ever again behave self-righteously and judgementally.
The fact that it doesn't - the fact that nothing does- is the reason the prolife movement has little to no credibility.
A movement with people like Jerry for spokesmen cannot possibly hope to be taken seriously by society at large.

Two abortions and two adoptions....perhaps Jerry could speak to Jamesrage about the effectiveness of birth control on the math thread. There is never a more forceful, self-righteous, judgemental advocate than a convert.

 

[Jerry]

True, my opinion based on my observations.

Exactly, and you are just as capable of making objective measures as I am. The fact that you and I disagree just as the population disagrees shows our mutual need for a higher authority to come in, examine the facts, and set a common policy for all to follow.

So, at least given the fact that all 3 branches of the government agree in practice with your side of this issue, it behooves you and all PC to not declare them unqualified to make such policy, as to do so is to say that the current allowance of abortion is unfounded, which is self destruction on your part.

Our laws are not based on considerations of "holy spirit" or "God", and a zef is clearly not a candidate for personhood. As long as a zef is dependent on a woman for life, it is worthy of as much respect as she decides.

Well, actually they are, just in different words. The law uses terms like "communal law" so as to make "blue law" seem secular. It's the same thing, it's just that secularists are so stupid that the case can be made otherwise.

The same is true in so far as abortion is concerned; even gay marriage. It's a simple trick, really, I call people on it all the time. As a master of sophistry I know it when I see it, so let me illustrate this brief and simple word play.

Instead of using overt words like "holy spirit", "God" or similar, we use words like "tradition", "conscious" and "history". If you look through some SCOTUS rulings you will find this terminology appearing as "deeply rooted in the traditions, history, and conscience of the people".

So, while in an informal setting like this academic forum you will see us say things like "temple of the holy spirit", we know to turn on the legal translator when in serious legal discussions and especially in official legal proceedings.

Generous fella, aren't you?

Quite :mrgreen:

The only thing is that women tend to change their minds about abortion once it involves them personally. There will be an ever changing opinion, and you will NEVER eliminate pro-choice women.

Women loose their objectivity when they become pregnant?
I'll agree to that.

Here, have some information on financial planning for keeping your child (where's your fiancé', btw, we have info. for him as well; and it gets better once you 2 go down to the court house with $70 and make it official next week), some information on adoption services, and a Hang'ing® kit courtesy of your local Evil Conservative Chapter.

The blame for abortion deaths falls on the population that knowing women will have abortions yet denied women the availability of safe abortion.

Well, no, 'cuz we're not forcing anyone to put a hanger anywhere, we're not even encouraging it.

These women do it to themselves, so the blood is on their own hands.

It was generous of your significant other to share the experience with you, since she need not have done so.

Here again we simply come from very different premises.

My wife was raised on a healthy diet of traditional native 'American, Christian and Naval values. We didn't even have sex for the first time until we were committed to each other for life. We were, in for all intents and purposes, married.

Her not being of the morally absent, selfish and self centered mind of feminism that no doubt you were raised with, her being pregnant was a family, a community issue. In her mind it wasn't a matter of "generosity", as that's feminist hype, but of familial responsibility.

I recall a P.P. receptionist having the balls to ask her why she told me that she was pregnant. My wife looked at her with a "well-no-duh" expression and said "it's his child".

The receptionist didn't seem to understand, saying something about "it's not a child, it's a fetus" as they disappeared into a room in the back.

Those who do not know of the pregnancy cannot be damaged by the end of it. Children are amazingly unaware of pregnancy and little affected by the end of it. Crib death affects those who "knew" the baby, abortion likewise affects only those who "knew" the fetus, and that can only be few.

You admit then that everyone who knows of the pregnancy is effected by it.

So much for your premise "Abortion really effects no one but the pregnant woman."

This is yet another premise you dissolve yourself.

That solution would help if applied, unfortunately, it has never really worked. I suspect that most test-driving has been done at the request of men, and therefore you need to appeal to them on that issue, and that is not throwing off responsibility, but assigning it properly.

That solution hasn't been applied for a long time, but when applied, it works.

Not risking making a woman pregnant until he is ready to start a family with her is a responsibility of a man, just as not risking becoming pregnant with any man she is not ready to start a family with is a responsibility of the woman.

 

[Jerry]

Ironic, with this attitude, that Jerry's wife has had not one but two abortions, which he claims to have pushed her into.
Perhaps either Jerry, his wife, or both of them should be retroactively Hanged®?
I vote for Jerry.
Being this big a chump should have consequences.
And coercing females into multiple abortions should- should- forfeit your right to ever again behave self-righteously and judgementally.
The fact that it doesn't - the fact that nothing does- is the reason the prolife movement has little to no credibility.
A movement with people like Jerry for spokesmen cannot possibly hope to be taken seriously by society at large.

You're premise is a false premise: "Ironic, with this attitude, that Jerry's wife has had not one but two abortions, which he claims to have pushed her into."

I did not have this attitude when I endorsed those abortions. I was Pro-Abortion then.

Given your false premise, the rest of your rant falls apart.

 

[Jerry]

Two abortions and two adoptions....perhaps Jerry could speak to Jamesrage about the effectiveness of birth control on the math thread.

I'm working on him.....the Depo. shot works best, though she has to keep up an active lifestyle to counter the water retention.

There is never a more forceful, self-righteous, judgmental advocate than a convert.

Are you saying that you want Jamesrage a forceful, self-righteous and judgmental convert for yourself, of that the fact that I am a convert from PC is why you say I'm forceful, self-righteous, judgmental......or both?

 

[OKgrannie]

I'm working on him.....the Depo. shot works best, though she has to keep up an active lifestyle to counter the water retention.

I would imagine that one thing works best for some, and another thing works best for others. Some women cannot use hormonal birth control which is the most effective next to sterilization. But nothing is 100% effective.

Are you saying that you want Jamesrage a forceful, self-righteous and judgmental convert for yourself, of that the fact that I am a convert from PC is why you say I'm forceful, self-righteous, judgmental......or both?

The latter.

 

[Jerry]

I would imagine that one thing works best for some, and another thing works best for others. Some women cannot use hormonal birth control which is the most effective next to sterilization. But nothing is 100% effective.

Even abstinence is not 100% effective.

One can always be raped.

The latter.

Jamesrage isn't worth your time?

 

[OKgrannie]

Even abstinence is not 100% effective.
One can always be raped.

Jamesrage isn't worth your time?

Worth my time for what?

 

[1069]

Worth my time for what?

.... :2rofll:

 

[Cephus]

I did not have this attitude when I endorsed those abortions. I was Pro-Abortion then.

Oh good, it's always the ones that have 'seen the light' who make the best fanatics, for example, look at how many ex-smokers are the most adamant, zealous critics of smoking.

I guess it's one of those 'I did it but you're not allowed' things.

 

[Cephus]

Worth my time for what?

I'm not even going to go there. :mrgreen:

But IMO at least, there are a lot of people around here, jamesrage included, who do a lot more 'feeling' than thinking and the second you point out the logical, rational ramifications of their statements, they just don't want to hear it.

 

[Jerry]

Worth my time for what?

:lol:
That answers the question succinctly.

 

[Jerry]

Oh good, it's always the ones that have 'seen the light' who make the best fanatics, for example, look at how many ex-smokers are the most adamant, zealous critics of smoking.

I guess it's one of those 'I did it but you're not allowed' things.

Much like a recovering alcoholic says to a school assembly "I did it, and learned my lesson why I shouldn't have; learn from my mistake and don't do it yourself".

 

[1069]

Much like a recovering alcoholic says to a school assembly "I did it, and learned my lesson why I shouldn't have; learn from my mistake and don't do it yourself".

More like Dave Chappell's "Tyrone the crackhead" character. :roll:

What "lesson" have you learned?

And what is it about your experience that makes you think you know what's best for others, or have somehow earned the right to be flippant about women's health, rights, and lives?

You ain't shite, and your "clothes hanger" assclownery repels prolifers and prochoicers alike.

 

[Jerry]

More like Dave Chappell's "Tyrone the crackhead" character. :roll:

I'm rich, b!tch!

What "lesson" have you learned?

Abortion is wrong.

And what is it about your experience that makes you think you know what's best for others, or have somehow earned the right to be flippant about women's health, rights, and lives?

Obviously I know better than women who choose medically unnecessary abortion because killing one's unborn child without medical necessity is not the product of rational thought.

You ain't shite, and your "clothes hanger" assclownery repels prolifers and prochoicers alike.

Like I care?

There are very few on this world who share my brand of very dry sense of humor, it is a fact I have come to accept, and like healthy homosexuals do I choose not to hide who I am in a closet for the sake of social acceptance.

 

[1069]

Obviously I know better than women who choose medically unnecessary abortion because killing one's unborn child without medical necessity is not the product of rational thought.

Meh, save it for the judge. :roll:
I'm sure public policy-makers are likely to take you reeeeal seriously. :screwy

 

[Cephus]

Obviously I know better than women who choose medically unnecessary abortion because killing one's unborn child without medical necessity is not the product of rational thought.

Says the guy with the imaginary friend. Okay, tell us another one.