Boots on the ground.

[US Conservative]

Obama likes bombing folk. Saddam wasn't a threat either, yet we used that as an excuse to muck things up. Infinity war doesn't install itself.

I thought we established time machines dont exist?

 

[Perotista]

I think Assad should stay. I dont think his forces should be allowed into Iraq (same with Iran from the east), but we should at least provide some oversight and air support in eastern Syria. Obama appears to despise Assad but I see him as better than Assad, and frankly better than Iran.

Another factor is the Kurds-used to conflict and perhaps our best ally in the region.

I agree with you on the Kurds, they are willing to fight for their homeland, but do not want to stray far from it. Right now I do not know what to make of Turkey as they seem to be playing both sides of this. I think we could link up with Assad with the Russians blessing and even perhaps their help. They like Assad. That would leave ISIS which is in Iraq. The Iraqi forces do not seem willing to fight for their homeland or should I say government.

This is a mess with no easy answers, probably no right answers at all. Especially if one is bent on defeating ISIS and doing away with Assad at the same time. There are times when one must choose the lesser evil. We did exactly that when we allied with Stalin in WWII and the propaganda from the government did a 180 from those evil godless commies to Hooray for Uncle Joe.

 

[polgara]

The American people are fickle that is for sure. Perhaps they have gotten use to war as computer games. Dealing with ISIS I keep coming up with Assad. Even if we drive ISIS out of Iraq which without a creditable ground force seems a bit unlikely, yes then the question becomes what do we do with them in Syria?

Now working with Assad instead of against him would provide that creditable ground force to go along with our air power and his if we let him use it. But we have this notion that Assad must go, but I wonder has anyone ever thought what or whom would replace him. ISIS, AQ, a situation like Libya which is in total chaos and turmoil with everyone fighting everybody. An islamic Republic or someone or organization with very close ties to Iran.

I know it is against what this administration believes, but making nice with Assad even if it means helping keep him in power, now that at least as of now is the only alternative for American boots on the ground. Any other ideas?

Greetings, Pero. :2wave:

Also, keeping a duly elected Assad in power who is also fighting the rebels - he holds a 70 percent approval rating with his people - means we shouldn't be toying with having a possible WW3 with Putin, China and the UN over this, which we don't need and can't afford. Why is Obama so hell-bent on removing Assad, who is the leader of a sovereign nation? As it stands, it looks like Obama appointed himself as the leader of a non-coalition fighting a non-war over religious differences in the region. Our "allies" aren't joining in, so when is it going to be called what it really is? Get rid of ISIS - they're the problem, not Assad!

 

[Ikari]

I thought we established time machines dont exist?

They don't, but saying "Obama is bombing" them as some form of legitimate argument for interventionism doesn't cut it. We did the same in the past and it didn't turn out well. While there are no time machines, it is folly and straight up ignorance, to ignore the lessons of the past. Appeal to authority is not proper argument for current action.

How about instead of deflections, you address perchance an actual point?

 

[US Conservative]

While there are no time machines, it is folly and straight up ignorance, to ignore the lessons of the past. Appeal to authority is not proper argument for current action.

How about instead of deflections, you address perchance an actual point?

Sweet irony. The lesson of the past is that it takes boots on the ground. Obama appears fine with bombing Iraq, but NOT placing boots on the ground.

Why wont Obama learn this lesson of the past?

 

[Ikari]

Sweet irony. The lesson of the past is that it takes boots on the ground. Obama appears fine with bombing Iraq, but NOT placing boots on the ground.

Why wont Obama learn this lesson of the past?

No, the lesson of the past is that boots on the ground with no planning mucks things up even further and leaves you vulnerable to takeover by extremists.

 

[US Conservative]

No, the lesson of the past is that boots on the ground with no planning mucks things up even further and leaves you vulnerable to takeover by extremists.

Thats one lesson Obama should heed-along with the necessity of boots on the ground. Im tired of his half measures based on political polls.

**** or get off the pot, obama.

 

[Respecthelect]

Indeed, and those who do not heed the lessons of the past are doomed to repeat it. So instead of blindly running in, thinking our interventionism actually innately gains something positive, we're going to have to maybe...you know....think about this one and perhaps, God forbid, have an actual plan this time.

If you just want to throw more American lives at terrorist organizations, then forget about it. Stupidly throwing the lives of our countrymen away on military interventionism doomed to fail is an insult to their commitment to America and our freedom.

I've made similar comments and in light of Ikari's agreement, I'm re-evaluating my position.

 

[MMC]

No, the lesson of the past is that boots on the ground with no planning mucks things up even further and leaves you vulnerable to takeover by extremists.

Like you said.....that's with no planning.

 

[Kurmugeon]

What part of :

We do not have the MONEY to re-fight the Iraq War!​

don't you get?!

 

[MMC]

Thats one lesson Obama should heed-along with the necessity of boots on the ground. Im tired of his half measures based on political polls.

**** or get off the pot, obama.

The Hammer doesn't think BO will put his heart into it.....moreover he doesn't think BO will be able to stay on top of the Arab states to keep them honest and to their word.


Krauthammer on ISIS: Obama Is ‘Ambivalent, Reluctant, Obviously Does Not Want to Do This’



Krauthammer explained that Obama isn’t asking for authorization from the Democrats because they are begging him not to cast a vote for war. Turkey – which is next to Syria – has also said that it will not allow us to use its air bases. He also touched on Obama’s remarks comparing this mission to what we have done in Somalia and Yemen.

“Obama said we have to imitate what we did in Somalia and Yemen, which is quite ridiculous. Somalia – we’ve had two airstrikes all year. He’s gonna defeat ISIS – which his own administration is calling a threat unlike any we’ve ever seen – with two airstrikes, drone strikes? That doesn’t apply.” Krauthammer remarked that George W. Bush had 38 allies with boots on the ground, 25,000 allies on the ground with us.

“Obama as of today has zero,” he said.....snip~

 

[MMC]

What part of :

We do not have the MONEY to re-fight the Iraq War!​

don't you get?!

You forget.....BO has the Saud and Qatar throwing up the funds. He just wanted another measly 500 mil to train and equips some moderates.

 

[Kurmugeon]

You forget.....BO has the Saud and Qatar throwing up the funds. He just wanted another measly 500 mil to train and equips some moderates.

0.5 Billion! Good Gods man, that wouldn't fund the effort for a day...

We spent 2 Trillion dollars on the Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns!

Obama has wasted another 18 Trillion on non-military largess and kick backs over the last 5 years!

We do NOT have the money!

 

[Linc]

The World changes 24/7 on a dime--certain leans won't recognize that depending on the President .

 

[Linc]

Obama has wasted another 18 Trillion!

We do NOT have the money!

Did Kurmugeon just say that President Obama has wasted another 18 trillion.
And it's his lean that beats the drums of war the loudest .

 

[MMC]

0.5 Billion! Good Gods man, that wouldn't fund the effort for a day...

We spent 2 Trillion dollars on the Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns!

Obama has wasted another 18 Trillion on non-military largess and kick backs over the last 5 years!

We do NOT have the money!

Well he did give them 600 mil back in June. Then a few hundred mil for some Humanitarian aid.

I agree we don't have the money.....but its not just our war to fight. Its everybody's.

Truly if we wanted to get rid of ISIS. We would tell all those refugees and the poor over there. 75k US Dollar for each ISIS body brought to me. It will be less than a 1 trillion on the payout. Plus we will improve all of their lives so they can retire, kick back and watch some tube and play some video games.

 

[Ikari]

Like you said.....that's with no planning.

Indeed, maybe if we make a plan this time, we could do something. But planning doesn't seem to be something government wants to do as of late.

 

[US Conservative]

The World changes 24/7 on a dime--certain leans won't recognize that depending on the President .

Dont be so hard on the dems, they are just trying to win an election.

 

[Kurmugeon]

Did Kurmugeon just say that President Obama has wasted another 18 trillion.
And it's his lean that beats the drums of war the loudest .

You are far too hung up on brand name politics.

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[Respecthelect]

Perhaps my words regarding "boots" weren't clear?

Muslims view infidel "boots on the ground" as an insult to Islam. Obama is personally offended by American boots on the ground. He is shamed in front of his cleric friends. Obama couldn't care less about American casualties. It's the offense to the religion he was raised under, that is the problem.

American's are looking at Obama and saying, "he's a reluctant warrior." Or "he's thinking it through." Or "he was elected to end wars, not start them." None of these is correct. Obama would gladly send thousands of troops into ebola-ravaged epidemics. He doesn't care one bit about soldiers lives. It strictly a Muslim religion issue for Obama. He simply can't offend Islam. His Islam.

 

[MMC]

Indeed, maybe if we make a plan this time, we could do something. But planning doesn't seem to be something government wants to do as of late.

Well send in the mercs.....then send in the Assassins. They will have a plan. Its called Kill ISIS. Start with Command and their Clerics. Make Shining Torched examples of them. So that their next generations grow up, fearing to even be associated with anything concerning ISIS. Do it in the night.....in the dark.....where they fear most.

 

[Kurmugeon]

I personally remember the last time a Leftie got U.S. involved in a War he really did not want to win...

Perhaps you youngins need a bit of reminding of what it meant:



Think this THROUGH!

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0054CAD1367AFC37


Sooner or later, we will need to address ISIS...

For God's Sakes, lets get the wacko Lefties out of the White House and Congress BEFORE we start!

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[MMC]

I personally remember the last time a Leftie got U.S. involved in a War he really did not want to win...

Perhaps you youngins need a bit of reminding of what it meant:



Think this THROUGH!

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That's a war song.....they'll never get it. More than likely they remember this one from back then.

 

[polgara]

That's a war song.....they'll never get it. More than likely they remember this one from back then.

And the band plays on.....

 

[Kurmugeon]

And the band plays on.....

Does the youth of today really want to carry the ISIS weight?



P.S. I think that the movie "Across the Universe" should be required viewing in the senior year of High School.

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