Book of Genesis

[kal-el]

Even though the book of Genesis does not say who wrote it, Jesus did say that the writer was Moses. Mark 12.26 says "And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?". This is found in the Book of Genesis.



Though God did not say who He used to write Genesis , Jesus (Yahweh) did give the credit to Moses. But I guess you would need to believe in his word to begin with.

It is almost like saying Leonardo DA Vinci did none of his paintings, his brushes did. :mrgreen:

Haha, yes well Jesus said alot of things. According to Revelation, the carpenter also had a sword in his mouth. I posted this on another forum, but I can't help but post it again. It might be a cold hard fact that Jesus was fat:

Matthew 9:14-15
Then John's disciples came and asked him, "How is it that we and the Pharisees fast, but your disciples do not fast?" Jesus answed, "How can the guests of the bridegroom mourn while he is with them? The time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them; then they will fast."

Ha, he emits a pragmatic parable when his disciples eating habits are in question.:lol:

It seems that when the carpenter is hungry, he gets really cranky:lol: :

Matthew 21:18-19
Early in the morning, as he was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the fig tree withered.

And one of the first things the carpenter uttered to his disciples when he resurrected was:

Luke 24:41
And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement he asked them, "Do you have anything here to eat?"

 

[Rev.]

Genesis is a religious work. It's purpose is to explain the relationship between God and man. God once had an intimate fellowship with the man, but because of sin, that fellowship was broken. Since then, God has been working His plan to restore the fellowship between himself and his creation. Since the Bible was not intended to be a scientific explaination of how everything came to be, or a complete historical record of the activity of mankind since the beginning, it is not fair to charge the Bible as a failure because it does not fulfill those purposes.

 

[steen]

Since the Bible was not intended to be a scientific explaination of how everything came to be, or a complete historical record of the activity of mankind since the beginning, it is not fair to charge the Bible as a failure because it does not fulfill those purposes.

Rev. I think this is the first time I have agreed with you?

 

[BodiSatva]

I think that this is the first time that I have agreed with steen as well...
Good point Rev.

 

[Rev.]

Since we can agree what the purpose of the Bible is NOT...and we might agree on what the purpose of the Bible IS...does it really matter who exactly wrote it so long as it fulfills that purpose?

Tradition says that Moses wrote the first five books. This is admittedly difficult to believe because Moses doesn't even appear in Genesis (regardless of what a previous poster said about Moses and the burning bush...that is actually in Exodus.) But on the other hand, it doesn't all have to be a first person account in order for Moses to have written it.

Biblical scholarship says there are at least four distinct writers...and people point to this as proof that with mutiple authorship it couldn't possibly be "inspired."

But consider this: when you read an article in the newspaper, you are reading the compilation of several eyewitness accounts plus additional research of previous writings on the subject with perhaps contributions from several other reporters whose names never appear in the by-line. The reporter does NOT write the whole article out of his own head (unless he's from the New York Times ). Have you ever ONCE read a news article and judged the truth of the reporting based on the fact that there were "so many" sources? No! In fact, you probably consider it MORE truthful.

How is that any different that writing the Bible? The fact that SO MANY different writers over thousands of years can agree on so many things independantly ought to be MORE compelling reasons for us to believe its truthfulness. But then people get stuck over a definition of "inspired." The Bible is said to be "inspired" by God...which makes God some cosmic "Deep Throat" and the writers merely transcribed the Bible from tapes? NOT HARDLY! I believe that in the process of writing, the Holy Spirit directed the writers about which stories to include, which things to leave out, and how to write about the events so that the purpose is revealed. This allows the personality of the writers to come through while still fulfilling the purpose of telling the story of God.

 

[F41]

Since we can agree what the purpose of the Bible is NOT...and we might agree on what the purpose of the Bible IS...does it really matter who exactly wrote it so long as it fulfills that purpose?

Tradition says that Moses wrote the first five books. This is admittedly difficult to believe because Moses doesn't even appear in Genesis (regardless of what a previous poster said about Moses and the burning bush...that is actually in Exodus.) But on the other hand, it doesn't all have to be a first person account in order for Moses to have written it.

Yes, I was wrong in my previous post I apologize to all.

But then people get stuck over a definition of "inspired." The Bible is said to be "inspired" by God...which makes God some cosmic "Deep Throat" and the writers merely transcribed the Bible from tapes? NOT HARDLY! I believe that in the process of writing, the Holy Spirit directed the writers about which stories to include, which things to leave out, and how to write about the events so that the purpose is revealed. This allows the personality of the writers to come through while still fulfilling the purpose of telling the story of God.

This too is your interpretation as well. If we look in 2 Timothy 3:16 It states;

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

I do believe it is the Inspired Word Of God and I also believe The Holy Spirit does direct man in writting The Inspired Word Of God. To insinuate that God would be some kind of cosmic Deep Throat for Inspirations in the writting of His Word is another misguidance as well, The Holy Spirit IS God..

 

[F41]

Since we can agree what the purpose of the Bible is NOT...and we might agree on what the purpose of the Bible IS...does it really matter who exactly wrote it so long as it fulfills that purpose?

Yes it does matter who wrote the word of God. If Lucifer said God gave him the word to teach the people, Would you believe it?

But consider this: when you read an article in the newspaper, you are reading the compilation of several eyewitness accounts plus additional research of previous writings on the subject with perhaps contributions from several other reporters whose names never appear in the by-line. The reporter does NOT write the whole article out of his own head (unless he's from the New York Times ). Have you ever ONCE read a news article and judged the truth of the reporting based on the fact that there were "so many" sources? No! In fact, you probably consider it MORE truthful.

Not knowing the source does not give credit to the truth of a story, One may need to know who is telling the story to concider its credability, otherwise, it becomes more hearsay then fact.

How is that any different that writing the Bible? The fact that SO MANY different writers over thousands of years can agree on so many things independantly ought to be MORE compelling reasons for us to believe its truthfulness.

Could be., but it could also be fiction handed down as fairytailes and legends.

This allows the personality of the writers to come through while still fulfilling the purpose of telling the story of God.

Personality is usually in the writtings of any author. Look at Edgar Allen Poe, His personality was of a depressed, and had a very darkside about him, and his writting reflected this.

 

[kal-el]

Genesis is a religious work.

True that.

It's purpose is to explain the relationship between God and man. God once had an intimate fellowship with the man, but because of sin, that fellowship was broken.

Dude, wouldn't God be a sadist? Adam was probably mentally hurting from thinking up names for all the animals, not to mention his chest probably hurt like hell as he was minus a rib; I guess that's considered "intimate fellowship?"

Since then, God has been working His plan to restore the fellowship between himself and his creation.

Uhh, he doesn't do anything in the here and now, so that ideas pretty much tossed.

Since the Bible was not intended to be a scientific explaination of how everything came to be, or a complete historical record of the activity of mankind since the beginning, it is not fair to charge the Bible as a failure because it does not fulfill those purposes.

Right, but some of that **** is rather impossible. C'mon 2 different creation accounts, talking snakes and donkey's, a flat earth. And if these fundies would take Jesus' teachings so literally, like they do with the OT, you know how he felt about wealth. "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possesions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven." It basically says that you have a much better chance of getting into the sky fortress if you're poor. So you would think these right-wing fundies would throw around wealth like a hot potato.:lol:

 

[steen]

Since we can agree what the purpose of the Bible is NOT...and we might agree on what the purpose of the Bible IS...does it really matter who exactly wrote it so long as it fulfills that purpose?

Agreed. The purpose of the Bible is not to give us a history lesson or a science lesson. It is to tell us why things matter and why we should live to love our neighbor. The Bible is all about "Why." The ones why try to make it into a "What" or a "How" are blasphemers who distorts God's words for their own political message, and who are so weak in the faith that they need "proof" of God.

 

[George_Washington]

According to biblical scholarship, the Torah in its present form was written by the Yahwist (the J-Writer) during the Babylonian captivity period of Jewish history. It is assumed that the Yahwist put order to and perhaps edited earlier Jewish documents and oral traditions. One can also discern a borrowing in Genesis of non-Jewish sources such as the Sumerian 'Epic of Gilgamesh'... a pre-Torah account of the Great Flood and the oldest known written work of literature.

Many people of religion consider the Book of Genesis as a historicity... a literal chronicle of the creation event. Although this may offend some, interpreting Genesis in such an absolute manner is both simplistic and disingenuous. The Yahwist was much more clever than that. Rather than a literal chronicle of creation, the Yahwist intended Genesis to be a celebration of the holy Shabbot (Sabbath). Even God in the midst of creation... honored the sanctity of Shabbot.

This is Jewish thought, and perhaps you should consider this unique Yahwist avenue of approach the next time you read the Book of Genesis.

Tashah

Well said, Madame.

:::tips his hat:::

lol

 

[F41]

Agreed. The purpose of the Bible is not to give us a history lesson or a science lesson. It is to tell us why things matter and why we should live to love our neighbor. The Bible is all about "Why." The ones why try to make it into a "What" or a "How" are blasphemers who distorts God's words for their own political message, and who are so weak in the faith that they need "proof" of God.

You Know Steen, Whenever someone says something you do not like or want to hear, you always judge them as bearing false witness or a blaspheming God. Blaspheme means to speak of (God or a sacred entity) in an irreverent, impious manner. I really do not see where anyone here is using it as a political message other then maybe you. So I would suggest you stop judging others when you hear something you do not like to hear. Maybe we can get back to the topic of the thread and have a civil discussion of Who wrote the book of Genesis instead of judging others inerpretations.

and who are so weak in the faith that they need "proof" of God.

Interesting comment steen. Below is taken from the thread A Continued Discussion Concerning God and the Big Bang.

The universe and time as we know it does have a beginning. On a Christians standpoint, God created time and therefore created the beginning of time we exist in. God lives outside the realm of time so God has no beginning or end. God created time and God can end time.

Evidence, please.

The Spirit of God has always existed, but the universe we know has not. What is beyond our universe, only God knows. Think of it this way, we live inside a universal globe, we can not go beyond a certain point. There is a barrier between the third heaven and the second heaven. The first heaven is our atmosphere, the second heaven is the vacuum of space and the third heaven is outside the globe we can not penetrate .

Please provide evidence for this.... (yeah, and for the rest of your claims as well).

 

[kal-el]

Well said, Madame.

:::tips his hat:::

lol

George, what the hell is up with that avatar? I hope you didn't go Brokeback mountain on us?:lol:

 

[steen]

You Know Steen, Whenever someone says something you do not like or want to hear, you always judge them as bearing false witness or a blaspheming God.

Nope, you are lying about me.

Blaspheme means to speak of (God or a sacred entity) in an irreverent, impious manner. I really do not see where anyone here is using it as a political message other then maybe you.

The creationists USE the Bible for their political agenda of "getting God into the class room." That very must is misuse of God.

So I would suggest you stop judging others when you hear something you do not like to hear.

Translation: I don't like to hear how creationist lies and deceptive plans are being exposed.

Interesting comment steen. Below is taken from the thread A Continued Discussion Concerning God and the Big Bang.

Where somebody made a false claim about science. Of course such false claims are going to be challenged with a request for evidence of that lie. Why not? Oh, wait, that was YOU who I challenged about your flase claim about science. Sour grapes?

 

[Rev.]

Yes it does matter who wrote the word of God. If Lucifer said God gave him the word to teach the people, Would you believe it?

:3oops: I wondered if you'd catch that...I didn't realize I'd left that open on that point til it was too late. Yes, it matters who to some degree. What I meant was does it matter if Moses wrote each word himself or if he compiled it from two or three God-fearing reliable sources?

Not knowing the source does not give credit to the truth of a story, One may need to know who is telling the story to concider its credability, otherwise, it becomes more hearsay then fact.

See my previous comment.

Personality is usually in the writtings of any author. Look at Edgar Allen Poe, His personality was of a depressed, and had a very darkside about him, and his writting reflected this.

Personality doesn't come through in dictation...that's the point I was making.