Black violent crime rate 3 times that of whitess

[Lycanthrope]

Post 449.

Post 449 says this:

The valuing of education and marriage.

So you are contending that minority cultures do NOT value those things as much as whites do?

 

[NatMorton]

I'd be delighted to read it if you have any literature on hand. Unfortunately I don't have time to sift through the entire Internet right now.

It's been a number of years since I've updated this list, but here you go. Over a dozen studies from research teams from MIT, Duke, Stanford, and other leading universities. Nearly all of them showing better student outcomes in Boston's Public Charter Schools when comparing like with like.

The Research on MA Charters

This is less of a blog post and more of a list. In this one page I will attempt to catalogue every public charter school study, pro or con, of which I’m aware. I am going narrow the field s…

natmortonblog.wordpress.com

I've spent a fair amount of time on this issue, and if your plan is to repeat the same old pro-union talking points against charters, I can promise you there's a study on that list that refutes whatever anti-charter nonsense they offer. I've been down this road before.

 

[NatMorton]

Post 449 says this:


So you are contending that minority cultures do NOT value those things as much as whites do?

And as much as other racial culture groups in the US, correct.

 

[Yes_Minister]

And a second, matching study from the Brookings Institute.

Okay, here are several sources that state redlining is a major source of poverty in the black community:

The Injustice of Redlining » NCRC

Cover image: Keyframe Lab-stock.adobe.com

ncrc.org

Modern Day Consequences of Historic Redlining: Finding a Path Forward - PMC

There is emerging evidence that structural racism is a major contributor to poor health outcomes for ethnic minorities. Structural racism captures upstream historic racist events (such as slavery, black code, and Jim Crow laws) and more recent ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The racist history that helps explain our present wealth gap – Center for Public Integrity

The federal HOLC created discriminatory redlining maps for cities across the country in the 1930s, including in Waterloo, Iowa.

publicintegrity.org

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/10/23/redlining-black-wealth/

What makes your sources better than mine?

 

[Lycanthrope]

And as much as other racial culture groups in the US, correct.

Okay, now we're drilling down a bit deeper.

If we accept your premise, can you identify why minority cultures might not value education and marriage as much as whites? After all, much of culture in America, esp. entertainment, is shared across racial lines.

 

[Gozaburo]

Okay, now we're drilling down a bit deeper.

If we accept your premise, can you identify why minority cultures might not value education and marriage as much as whites? After all, much of culture in America, esp. entertainment, is shared across racial lines.

In short, it's because education and marriage are institutions, not universal principles or moral values. These institutions (in America) are European in nature, so there's always going to be some level of incongruence, probably.

Like imagine your some tribesman abducted from the African interior 250 years ago. You've never written or read a book (especially not in English), never professed your love in Christ, never listened to Bach, and so on.

Several generations later and both conservatives and liberals alike are stupefied as to why you have a hard time reaching equitable status with whites on these subjects. Conservatives say it's because you're uncultured, liberals say its because we haven't done "policy" hard enough.

Both are correct, but not in the way you would think.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Like imagine your some tribesman abducted from the African interior 250 years ago. You've never written or read a book (especially not in English), never professed your love in Christ, never listened to Bach, and so on.

You contend that American minorities in the modern day are handicapped by their ancestral heritage, as it lacked the books, faith, and music of Western Civilization?

 

[NatMorton]

Okay, now we're drilling down a bit deeper.

If we accept your premise, can you identify why minority cultures might not value education and marriage as much as whites? After all, much of culture in America, esp. entertainment, is shared across racial lines.

No, I don't have a satisfactory answer there.

Just curious, why do you keep focusing on "whites" as the opposed end of the spectrum?

 

[Gozaburo]

You contend that minorities are handicapped by their ancestral heritage, as it lacked the books, faith, and music of Western Civilization?

Well not just books, faith, and music, but yes. They were brought to a completely alien environment and have zero shared history with it. They come from a civilization which was thousands of years behind in terms of development. Obviously discrimination and racism causes inequality, but at the end of the day this initial culture shock wasn't ever really resolved and frankly, I'm not sure that it can be.

Even the most well meaning liberals don't seem to understand that what they're demanding is that African Americans become equal in a civilization that was totally alien to their ancestors and it is (now) expected that these people accept the ideals forced onto them via either working harder ala conservatism or social mobility programs ala progressivism. But I ask this: why should they accept these civilizational ideals in the first place? What if they don't want to?

But neither side really acknowledges that they will never have true sovereignty and so equity is impossible. Even if the white man disappears tomorrow, they will still be an underclass to whoever the next elite is.

 

[Irredentist]

It's been a number of years since I've updated this list, but here you go. Over a dozen studies from research teams from MIT, Duke, Stanford, and other leading universities. Nearly all of them showing better student outcomes in Boston's Public Charter Schools when comparing like with like.

The Research on MA Charters

This is less of a blog post and more of a list. In this one page I will attempt to catalogue every public charter school study, pro or con, of which I’m aware. I am going narrow the field s…

natmortonblog.wordpress.com

I've spent a fair amount of time on this issue, and if your plan is to repeat the same old pro-union talking points against charters, I can promise you there's a study on that list that refutes whatever anti-charter nonsense they offer. I've been down this road before.

I applaud your efforts to compile this research. Unfortunately, I don't see any studies which address outcomes for black students specifically, so I'll have to withhold judgment for now. But I'll keep my eyes open!

 

[Lycanthrope]

No, I don't have a satisfactory answer there.

Just curious, why do you keep focusing on "whites" as the opposed end of the spectrum?

We are comparing white vs. minorities in terms of poverty. You have alleged that there is something particular to minority culture that makes it difficult for them to achieve the "big 3" of high school graduation, marriage, and no kids before 21 that (according to your cited sources) would alleviate 90% of minority poverty. Minority culture in America (however one might identify of define it) does not exist in a vacuum; it is influenced by and influences other cultures. Seems only fitting then examine the differences doesn't it?

Why do you see as the causes of white poverty, given that they share the same cultural inheritance as non-poor whites?

 

[NatMorton]

I applaud your efforts to compile this research. Unfortunately, I don't see any studies which address outcomes for black students specifically, so I'll have to withhold judgment for now. But I'll keep my eyes open!

From the 2009 version for the MIT study that was confirmed in later version of the study (emphasis added):

Whether using the randomized lotteries or statistical controls for measured background characteristics, we generally find large positive effects for Charter Schools, at both the middle school and high school levels. For each year of attendance in middle school, we estimate that Charter Schools raise student achievement .09 to .17 standard deviations in English Language Arts and .18 to .54 standard deviations in math relative to those attending traditional schools in the Boston Public Schools. The estimated impact on math achievement for Charter middle schools is extraordinarily large. Increasing performance by .5 standard deviations is the same as moving from the 50th to the 69th percentile in student performance. This is roughly half the size of the black-white achievement gap. In high school, the estimated gains are somewhat smaller than in middle school: .16 to .19 standard deviations in English Language Arts; .16 to .19 in mathematics; .2 to .28 in writing topic development; and .13 to .17 in writing composition with the lottery-based results. The estimated impacts of middle schools and high school Charters are similar in both the “observational” and “lottery-based” results.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Well not just books, faith, and music, but yes. They were brought to a completely alien environment and have zero shared history with it. They come from a civilization which was thousands of years behind in terms of development. Obviously discrimination and racism causes inequality, but at the end of the day this initial culture shock wasn't ever really resolved and frankly, I'm not sure that it can be.

Even the most well meaning liberals don't seem to understand that what they're demanding is that African Americans become equal in a civilization that was totally alien to their ancestors and it is (now) expected that these people accept the ideals forced onto them via either working harder ala conservatism or social mobility programs ala progressivism. But I ask this: why should they accept these civilizational ideals in the first place? What if they don't want to?

But neither side really acknowledges that they will never have true sovereignty and so equity is impossible. Even if the white man disappears tomorrow, they will still be an underclass to whoever the next elite is.

Interesting response, thank you. To the bolded, I think that addresses the complex nature of the situation, i.e. that it's not just one thing that contributes to it.

What I would ask though, is this: how much influence do you feel the ancestral inheritance of a minority American has on them, when they are removed from it by multiple generations?

 

[NatMorton]

I applaud your efforts to compile this research. Unfortunately, I don't see any studies which address outcomes for black students specifically, so I'll have to withhold judgment for now. But I'll keep my eyes open!

... and from another of those studies, again, emphasis added:

We examined the score results by student subgroups and find that [charter] gains are largest for minority students but smaller for white students. In middle school, gains are larger for students who score worse on their baseline exams. At both school levels, gains are particularly large for English language learners, though the sample in high school is too small for precise estimates…MCAS analysis leads to an interesting conclusion: those who are most likely to succeed in Boston charter schools are the least likely to enroll in them, especially in middle school …Like earlier studies, this report finds that attending a charter school in Boston dramatically improves students’ MCAS performance and proficiency rates. The largest gains appear to be for students of color and particularly large gains were found for English Language Learners.“

 

[Noodlegawd]

Yeah, it must be because they are black right?

View attachment 67582316

This totally explains why Black Americans murder each other at 4 times the rate that Hispanic Americans do.

 

[MAGAnificent]

I'll believe it when I see it. My prediction is that black people will always be the underclass of America, and nothing that anyone does will ever change that.

If I were a black individual, I would be offended by that view. Have you never had interactions with a black businessman, attorney, doctor, politician, etc.?

 

[Ganondagan]

Poverty. What literally every study on the topic shows.

But thank you for doing a racist dog whistle to “culture”.

Why are they in poverty?

 

[Questerr]

Why are they in poverty?

The continuing effects of multiple generations of massive racist discrimination.

 

[MAGAnificent]

What a dark message we get from the left.

Unfortunately, the left wants very badly to either keep racism alive or the perception of institutionalized racism alive as they think they benefit from it politically. That they seem to now be bleeding minority voters at some level, does not seem to matter to them yet.

 

[Gozaburo]

Interesting response, thank you. To the bolded, I think that addresses the complex nature of the situation, i.e. that it's not just one thing that contributes to it.

What I would ask though, is this: how much influence do you feel the ancestral inheritance of a minority American has on them, when they are removed from it by multiple generations?

I think it's impossible to say to be honest.

The African diaspora in America is unique in some ways in that (in my opinion) they've never truly assimilated. Consider another example like the Gauls under the Romans. Caesar waged a genocide on the Gauls, enslaved them, killed their Gods, and destroyed their culture which eventually became completely Romanized. So much so that several generations later, you have Charlemagne attempting to emulate the Romans, creating a mythology of how grand this older civilization which conquered his ancestors was. This devotion to a shared mythology is what true assimilation looks like and it's something the African diaspora does not share with white Americans. There is clearly resentment and an unspoken tension which permeates the air even today and we certainly do not share a view of this nations founding mythology.

I would argue this is clearly a very influential historical variable. Consider other ethnic groups like Chinese or Japanese peoples, who had varying levels of horrible oppression abroad and domestically since the creation of the United States and yet these peoples have by-and-large assimilated and outperform natives, ethnic enclaves like Chinatown not withstanding. The difference, of course, is that the Chinese came here and voluntarily subjugated themselves to the white mans imperial will and became indentured servants on the railroads, or worked any number of undesirable borderline slave labor jobs natives wouldn't take.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Trump is largely removing Medicaid benefits from illegal immigrants and fraudsters.

A lie. Republicans will be removing Medicaid benefits from up to 17 million people, despite Trump promising to not touch Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Secuirity.



Republicans of course want it both ways, deep cuts to Medicaid, but they don't want their deep cuts to Medicaid to be an albatross around their midterms necks.

So in their Big Cruel Bill they finagled the majority of cuts to Medicaid to not kick-in until December 2026.... 1 month AFTER the 2026 midterm voting.

 

[MAGAnificent]

A lie. Republicans will be removing Medicaid benefits from up to 17 million people, despite Trump promising to not touch Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Secuirity.



Republicans of course want it both ways, deep cuts to Medicaid, but they don't want their deep cuts to Medicaid to be an albatross around their midterms necks.

So in their Big Cruel Bill they finagled the majority of cuts to Medicaid to not kick-in until December 2026.... 1 month AFTER the 2026 midterm voting.

So, we should continue providing Medicaid to illegal immigrants, fraudsters, and people who are not eligible?

 

[Ganondagan]

The continuing effects of multiple generations of massive racist discrimination.

Ah, I see you have a very low opinion of blacks don't you. Not enough white saviors, apparently, to help the poor souls through life?

 

[Questerr]

Ah, I see you have a very low opinion of black's don't you. Not enough white saviors, apparently, to help the poor souls?

Acknowledging reality means having a low opinion of people who were subject to multiple generations of racist discrimination?

Let me guess, you think they should all just pull themselves up by their bootstraps, right?

 

[Lycanthrope]

I would argue this is clearly a very influential historical variable. Consider other ethnic groups like Chinese or Japanese peoples, who had varying levels of horrible oppression abroad and domestically since the creation of the United States and yet these peoples have by-and-large assimilated and outperform natives, ethnic enclaves like Chinatown not withstanding. The difference, of course, is that the Chinese came here and voluntarily subjugated themselves to the white mans imperial will and became indentured servants on the railroads, or worked any number of undesirable borderline slave labor jobs natives wouldn't take.

Consider also the historical resistance whites had to allowing minorities to fully assimilate into the dominant culture, esp. African and Native Americans. Not that Asians met less resistance; how they were able to overcome it more successfully (generally speaking) is worthy of study.