Black violent crime rate 3 times that of whitess

[Ahlevah]

Your ignorance is anything but funny.
View attachment 67582493

Table 43

ucr.fbi.gov

What the hell are you talking about? The FBI collects data based on race and ethnicity separately. There is no “brown” category under “race.” So the default is to place the “brown” people—including the many people in this country of Mexican and Central American heritage (i.e., people who also have higher rates of criminality than whites)—in the “white” column.

 

[Gozaburo]

Yes, I think it is an oversimplification, in part because those groups dispersed more or less culturally intact, in family groups, with traditions and history maintained. African slaves were ripped from their communities, thrown together in groups where no one knew each other, everyone spoke different languages and dialects, and there were likely few common traditions or teachings. These people had to start from scratch, and they had to do so as slaves, with no control over the direction of their lives. Any traditions they might have recalled they often couldn't pass on to their children because those children were taken from them and sold off to someone else.

If you stop and think about the wrenching impact of a complete loss of cultural identity and social cohesion on a people, followed by generations of slavery that made it incredibly difficult to rebuild any kind traditions, followed then by decades of discrimination as a free people, it helps to understand the challenges still faced by some African-American communities.

I’ve spoken about this frequently in other threads and ironically I get the most backlash from liberals when I discuss it.

So much of American society from the social fabric, work culture, recreation, and so on is very Anglo in nature. Liberals always view inequity through the lens of what is considered ideal by the Anglo American stereotype: a 9-5, a mortgage, a couple of cars, some kids & a Christian marriage, and so on. All social programs, all wellbeing statistics, all socioeconomic considerations are bent toward ensuring that this bourgeoise conception of the middle class is achieved by as many people as possible.

But no one at any point in American history stopped and considered: is this the ideal of the historically tribal peoples that were abducted from across the ocean? Prior to civil rights, it was assumed that blacks could be inoculated with these ideals via cultural authoritarianism and colonization. In the post-civil rights era, these things are chauvinistically assumed as objective moral ideals, but clearly there is more to this formula, which you allude to.

This is why I continue to hold that the question of the African diaspora in America is not something that we can simply "policy" our way out of.

 

[j brown's body]

I’ve spoken about this frequently in other threads and ironically I get the most backlash from liberals when I discuss it.

So much of American society from the social fabric, work culture, recreation, and so on is very Anglo in nature. Liberals always view inequity through the lens of what is considered ideal by the Anglo American stereotype: a 9-5, a mortgage, a couple of cars, some kids & a Christian marriage, and so on. All social programs, all wellbeing statistics, all socioeconomic considerations are bent toward ensuring that this bourgeoise conception of the middle class is achieved by as many people as possible.

But no one at any point in American history stopped and considered: is this the ideal of the historically tribal peoples that were abducted from across the ocean? Prior to civil rights, it was assumed that blacks could be inoculated with these ideals via cultural authoritarianism and colonization. In the post-civil rights era, these things are chauvinistically assumed as objective moral ideals, but clearly there is more to this formula, which you allude to.

This is why I continue to hold that the question of the African diaspora in America is not something that we can simply "policy" our way out of.

Red lining certainly did NOT ensure that middle class was achieved by as many people as possible.

 

[j brown's body]

If “science” told a progressive to burn his grandmother at the stake he would do it. They’re completely devoid of common sense. Releasing “fathers” from prison and not holding them accountable for the crimes they commit so they can stay home and be parents and role models for their kids is a stupid idea. It’s ideas like this one, along with “bail reform,” sanctuary cities, open borders, and unlimited free needles for drug addicts camped out on public sidewalks that put Donald Trump in the White House. President Trump thanks them.

On the other hand, if you're not a criminal when you go to prison, you'll almost surely be one when you get out.

 

[Simpletruther]

Where's that crime rate in relation to income level?
I bet when that is the metric used, color of skin is irrelevant.

The vast majority of poor people are not criminals. So low income obviously is not "causing" people to commit crimes.

 

[Gozaburo]

Red lining certainly did NOT ensure that middle class was achieved by as many people as possible.

Kind of besides the point of the post I made and an issue that people have attempted to address (via policy) with varying levels of success.

 

[j brown's body]

The vast majority of poor people are not criminals. So low income obviously is not "causing" people to commit crimes.

Certain crimes are fostered by a lack of confidence in the justice system. For instance, priorities of a police department can reduce the odds that the murders of young black men are solved. When someone is wronged and they don't see justice serving them, they take it into their own hands.

"Decades of acrimony between the department and civilians have left Skaggs and his fellow detectives feeling, she writes, “like door-to-door salesmen, trying to peddle a legal system no one wanted anything to do with.” Getting witnesses to talk, to tell the truth, to show up in court to testify, to not “roll back” on their stories — all of this can be close to impossible. As Leovy tells it, this is not primarily because of a street code against snitching, but a very real fear of being injured or killed. In one case, a victim’s mother actually tells her neighbors that she does not expect them to let their children cooperate with the detectives trying to solve her child’s murder; she doesn’t want to run the risk that any other child might be killed."

Link

 

[j brown's body]

Kind of besides the point of the post I made and an issue that people have attempted to address (via policy) with varying levels of success.

It is the point. I think youre kidding yourself that anglo society wants to make it possible for everyone to succeed. More than anything, our nation is defined by the color line dividing between them with their privileges and everybody else.

 

[Simpletruther]

Certain crimes are fostered by a lack of confidence in the justice system. For instance, priorities of a police department can reduce the odds that the murders of young black men are solved. When someone is wronged and they don't see justice serving them, they take it into their own hands.

"Decades of acrimony between the department and civilians have left Skaggs and his fellow detectives feeling, she writes, “like door-to-door salesmen, trying to peddle a legal system no one wanted anything to do with.” Getting witnesses to talk, to tell the truth, to show up in court to testify, to not “roll back” on their stories — all of this can be close to impossible. As Leovy tells it, this is not primarily because of a street code against snitching, but a very real fear of being injured or killed. In one case, a victim’s mother actually tells her neighbors that she does not expect them to let their children cooperate with the detectives trying to solve her child’s murder; she doesn’t want to run the risk that any other child might be killed."

Link

Well that mentality should be taught agaisnt but it's not. Instead the focus is on victimhood instead of improving oneself.

 

[Gozaburo]

It is the point. I think youre kidding yourself that anglo society wants to make it possible for everyone to succeed. More than anything, our nation is defined by the color line dividing between them with their privileges and everybody else.

American liberalism is a European, mostly Anglo ideal - that isn't up for debate. The post-civil rights era of progressive liberalism is just the logical progression of those ideals.

Whether or not liberalism is truly oriented toward global emancipation or if it's actually subtly used as a means of conquest and empire is actually a very interesting subject, but probably outside of the scope of this thread.

 

[NatMorton]

No, it's economic.

Sorry, no. The outcome, low income, is economic. The root cause of the outcome is cultural.

 

[Tettsuo]

American liberalism is a European, mostly Anglo ideal - that isn't up for debate. The post-civil rights era of progressive liberalism is just the logical progression of those ideals.

Whether or not liberalism is truly oriented toward global emancipation or if it's actually subtly used as a means of conquest and empire is actually a very interesting subject, but probably outside of the scope of this thread.

You've completely missed the point of @j brown's body post.

The promise of American Liberalism was not offered to the American Blacks until recent history. That also isn't up for debate.

 

[j brown's body]

Sorry, no. The outcome, low income, is economic. The root cause of the outcome is cultural.

Measure wealth, not income.

 

[j brown's body]

American liberalism is a European, mostly Anglo ideal - that isn't up for debate. The post-civil rights era of progressive liberalism is just the logical progression of those ideals.

Whether or not liberalism is truly oriented toward global emancipation or if it's actually subtly used as a means of conquest and empire is actually a very interesting subject, but probably outside of the scope of this thread.

You feel social justice is an anglo idea.

 

[Gozaburo]

You've completely missed the point of @j brown's body post.

The promise of American Liberalism was not offered to the American Blacks until recent history. That also isn't up for debate.

I didn't miss the point. I'm saying that the promise of American liberalism wasn't "offered" to American blacks. It was chauvinistically assumed for them that they, as a culture (insofar as one even exists), have the same ideals as the Anglo and that, perhaps more importantly, they would be 'okay' with living out those ideals in a nation where they would never have total sovereignty, cultural hegemony, or true political independence.

You feel social justice is an anglo idea.

In the modern context yes, liberal social justice and emancipation is a European concept which only exists in European nations OR nations which were conquered and subjugated by European empires.

 

[Cope]

Modern-day redlining: Banks discriminate in lending

Mortgage data shows a troubling pattern of lending, even in major cities like Atlanta, Detroit, Philadelphia, St. Louis and San Antonio: Banks block African Americans and Latinos from getting loans.

revealnews.org

...This modern-day redlining persisted in 61 metro areas even when controlling for applicants’ income, loan amount and neighborhood, according to a mountain of Home Mortgage Disclosure Act records analyzed by Reveal from The Center for Investigative Reporting.

The yearlong analysis, based on 31 million records, relied on techniques used by leading academics, the Federal Reserve and Department of Justice to identify lending disparities.

It found a pattern of troubling denials for people of color across the country, including in major metropolitan areas such as Atlanta, Detroit, Philadelphia, St. Louis and San Antonio. African Americans faced the most resistance in Southern cities – Mobile, Alabama; Greenville, North Carolina; and Gainesville, Florida – and Latinos in Iowa City, Iowa...

New Jersey-based TD Bank, which denied a higher proportion of black and Latino applicants than any other major lender, said it “makes credit decisions based on each customer’s credit profile, not on factors such as race or ethnicity.”

Reveal’s analysis included all records publicly available under the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act, covering nearly every time an American tried to buy a home with a conventional mortgage in 2015 and 2016. It controlled for nine economic and social factors, including an applicant’s income, the amount of the loan, the ratio of the size of the loan to the applicant’s income and the type of lender, as well as the racial makeup and median income of the neighborhood where the person wanted to buy property.

Credit score was not included because that information is not publicly available.

Gasp, when you control what you use for 'analysis', you find the thing you set out to find!

Credit score is a BIG part of whether or not you qualify ...

 

[Cope]

What defect do you suppose women are handicapped by such that they are incapable of that clarity in the preseason?

The same ones that men suffer I'd imagine.

Love, hope to change, hormones, lust?

 

[Cope]

how many do you want?

Whichever ones allow you to make a cogent. clear argument.

So far, you've said, and shown nothing.

 

[j brown's body]

New Jersey-based TD Bank, which denied a higher proportion of black and Latino applicants than any other major lender, said it “makes credit decisions based on each customer’s credit profile, not on factors such as race or ethnicity.”

Reveal’s analysis included all records publicly available under the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act, covering nearly every time an American tried to buy a home with a conventional mortgage in 2015 and 2016. It controlled for nine economic and social factors, including an applicant’s income, the amount of the loan, the ratio of the size of the loan to the applicant’s income and the type of lender, as well as the racial makeup and median income of the neighborhood where the person wanted to buy property.

Credit score was not included because that information is not publicly available.

Gasp, when you control what you use for 'analysis', you find the thing you set out to find!

Credit score is a BIG part of whether or not you qualify ...

There is quite a discrepancy between white and black wealth due in no small part to red lining which affects credit scores.

 

[Cope]

You would be incorrect. I was indeed lucky. Where I was born, to whom I was born, and when I was born are all about luck. None of that took effort on my part.

My grandparents had nine children and fled the South for the hope of better opportunities up North. They didn't find those opportunities and struggled instead. They could never afford to give equal resources to all nine of their children. They quite literally had to decide which of the nine would benefit most from their meager resources. The rest were left to flounder (financially). This was not a rare predicament for people of that generation.

It seems you don't understand the impact of poverty, having a lack of generational wealth, and the pernicious destructiveness of systemic racism to upward mobility.

I don't find it impossible... who made that statement? A good number of their grandchildren moved into the middle class, including me. A good number of us didn't rise as well. The whys are numerous. And just to note, the rest of the country... what the hell are you talking about? Are you implying that whites aren't poor? Hispanics? The vast majority of people living in poverty in the US are white. It must be their culture... right?

Of course they are poor but you don't see a big push to do anything by race when it comes to them, do you? Why is that? It's their choices, in a LOT of cases. You don't see me stumping for them to be given MORE opportunities yet that is what Democrats and others attempt to do for the black population. Again, I ask, why is that?

Honestly, your ignorance about this topic is amazing to me. Not because of incorrect assumptions, but because of your obstinacy around it. You're getting some great information from a bunch of posters, and you're choosing to completely ignore it and run with your own narrative.

I'm getting anecdotal stories in the face of data, in an attempt to understand. AKA, more excuses.

 

[j brown's body]

I didn't miss the point. I'm saying that the promise of American liberalism wasn't "offered" to American blacks. It was chauvinistically assumed for them that they, as a culture (insofar as one even exists), have the same ideals as the Anglo and that, perhaps more importantly, they would be 'okay' with living out those ideals in a nation where they would never have total sovereignty, cultural hegemony, or true political independence.



In the modern context yes, liberal social justice and emancipation is a European concept which only exists in European nations OR nations which were conquered and subjugated by European empires.

Unfortunately, I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[j brown's body]

Of course they are poor but you don't see a big push to do anything by race when it comes to them, do you? Why is that? It's their choices, in a LOT of cases. You don't see me stumping for them to be given MORE opportunities yet that is what Democrats and others attempt to do for the black population. Again, I ask, why is that?

I'm getting anecdotal stories in the face of data, in an attempt to understand. AKA, more excuses.

Its to try and correct the imbalances due to the consequences of our history of giving whites more opportunities.

 

[Tettsuo]

I didn't miss the point. I'm saying that the promise of American liberalism wasn't "offered" to American blacks. It was chauvinistically assumed for them that they, as a culture (insofar as one even exists), have the same ideals as the Anglo and that, perhaps more importantly, they would be 'okay' with living out those ideals in a nation where they would never have total sovereignty, cultural hegemony, or true political independence.

The American Black is the most American, culturally speaking, than nearly any other racial group in this country. What a bizarre claim to say that "black culture" has different ideals than "white culture".

First, there is no homogenized black culture. A person, regardless of skin color, born in the South will have more in common with another Southerner than with a Northerner. I'm talking specific cultural cues. You think I learned how to hunt growing up a Brooklyn, NY? But my southern cousins sure did, just like the whites they grew up right next to. I have more in common with a Manhattan Jew than I have with a black dude who grew up in Appalachia.

 

[hooligan]

New Jersey-based TD Bank, which denied a higher proportion of black and Latino applicants than any other major lender, said it “makes credit decisions based on each customer’s credit profile, not on factors such as race or ethnicity.”

Reveal’s analysis included all records publicly available under the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act, covering nearly every time an American tried to buy a home with a conventional mortgage in 2015 and 2016. It controlled for nine economic and social factors, including an applicant’s income, the amount of the loan, the ratio of the size of the loan to the applicant’s income and the type of lender, as well as the racial makeup and median income of the neighborhood where the person wanted to buy property.

Credit score was not included because that information is not publicly available.

Gasp, when you control what you use for 'analysis', you find the thing you set out to find!

Credit score is a BIG part of whether or not you qualify ...

Justice Department Secures Agreement with Patriot Bank to Resolve Lending Discrimination Claims

The Justice Department announced today that Patriot Bank (Patriot) has agreed to pay $1.9 million to resolve allegations that the bank engaged in a pattern or practice of lending discrimination by redlining majority-Black and Hispanic neighborhoods in Memphis, Tennessee. Redlining is an illegal...

www.justice.gov

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/12/1148751006/redlining-city-national-bank-doj-settlement

DOJ Fines Credit Union $6.5 Million in Redlining Settlement

First-ever credit union DOJ redlining settlement shows that fair lending is a credit union challenge too.

www.ncontracts.com

Justice Department Reaches Significant Milestone in Combating Redlining Initiative After Securing Over $107 Million in Relief for Communities of Color Nationwide

The Justice Department announced today that its Combating Redlining Initiative has secured over $107 million in relief for communities of color nationwide that have experienced lending discrimination by banks or other mortgage lending businesses. As a part of the $107 million, the Department...

www.justice.gov

Pennsylvania lender FNB settles US redlining case in North Carolina

First National Bank of Pennsylvania on Monday reached a $13.5 million settlement with the U.S. Department of Justice and North Carolina to resolve charges it engaged in lending discrimination known as redlining in the Charlotte and Winston-Salem, North Carolina markets.

www.reuters.com

Do you want more? 'Cause there are more.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

What the hell are you talking about?

What the hell I'm talking about is that Hispanic/Latino are counted.

The FBI collects data based on race and ethnicity separately. There is no “brown” category under “race.” So the default is to place the “brown” people

It isn’t a “default” because there is no brown race.

—including the many people in this country of Mexican and Central American heritage (i.e., people who also have higher rates of criminality than whites)—in the “white” column.

Show proof that American citizens of “Mexican and Central American heritage” commit crimes at higher rates than white Americans.