Big voting bill faces defeat as 2 Dems won’t stop filibuster

[Taylor]

That's because of reconciliation. Please explain to me what reconciliation is. Go ahead, in your own words of course, don't google it. What do you think about it?

You must be referring to the way Democrats held the bipartisan bill hostage.

 

[Conservative]

We'll see. I personally like the "we're for voting rights" position opposed to the "They are federalizing elections!" misinformation position. And I believe most Independent voters support voting rights, oppose voter suppression and especially voter annulment, and won't buy the "federalizing election" BS the Republicans are spouting. (Nor the "election integrity" BS the Republicans are using to justify their voter suppression and annulment bills in the states.)

Another liberal who doesn't have a clue as to what is in the voter's rights bill. This action is UNCONSTITUTIONAL as states control the elections and any voter's rights bill that takes away state power will be tested in the SC. The Constitution has to be amended to do that. We already have an Amendment to the Constitution which makes discrimination illegal. I cannot believe how civics challenged many on the left are and anything the left says is gospel and some will support.

 

[Peacenik]

If the Democrats did NOT bring the bill forward, the Republican line would have been "They said that they wanted to "improve voting" but they didn't do anything about it. That means that they lied.".

If the Democrats bring the bill forward, the Republicans would have to either shut up or say "They said that they wanted to "improve voting" but we filibustered it and the bill that they brought forward never even got debated.". Even if the Republicans do shut up, the Democrats will be able to say "We wanted to "improve voting" but the Republicans didn't even want to allow any proposal to do so to be debated. Obviously the Republicans are against improving voting - are you?".

I am for expanding secure voting as far and wide as possible. Make registration automatic when turning 18. And why vote in person? If taxes are safe enough to do online, so can voting be. I would support it if voting were required, such as in Australia. No big deal for opting out, maybe just lose an income tax credit.

I also support modernizing the communication between constituents and Representatives. Every Representative should have a well-moderated online discussion forum where staff keep the conversation going and the Representative can come in and join the conversation at their own discretion.

 

[Taylor]

OK... so I document my post with what, a dozen cites. You respond by talking out your A.... Then you go totally into the factless void of suggesting election fraud. There is no factual basis for that; it is complete fantasy land. It is a matter of fact that the 2020 elections were free and fair. To think otherwise is complete ignorance. Don't allow yourself to be a Trump useful idiot.

Where did I say fraud? You're making things up as usual.

By the numbers: President Donald Trump's failed efforts to overturn the election

Trump and allies filed scores of lawsuits, tried to convince state legislatures to take action, organized protests and held hearings.. None of it worked.

www.usatoday.com

Exhaustive fact check finds little evidence of voter fraud, but 2020's 'Big Lie' lives on

More than a year after President Joe Biden won the 2020 election, former President Donald Trump and his allies still insist without evidence that widespread voter fraud led to a stolen election. A new reporting project from the Associated Press shows that is false, finding fewer than 475...

www.pbs.org

Factbox: Trump's false claims debunked: the 2020 election and Jan. 6 riot

A year after a mob of Donald Trump's supporters assaulted the U.S. Capitol in a failed bid to overturn his 2020 election defeat, the Republican former president continues to repeat false claims blaming widespread voting fraud for his loss to Democrat Joe Biden.

www.reuters.com

AP FACT CHECK: Trump's claims of vote rigging are all wrong

Clinging to notions of widespread vote rigging that his own attorney general has disputed, President Donald Trump repeated a litany of baseless assertions Wednesday of political corruption, machine tampering and mysterious votes appearing out of nowhere that allowed Joe Biden to steal the election

apnews.com

All irrelevant. Has nothing to do with what I posted!

Debate is a bit like a court of law. Your opinion is moot. If you want to make a case, back it up with facts or expert opinions. You offer none. And rather than just stop at no facts you show yourself to be very comfortable making assertions that have dis-proven over and over and over again and trying to pass them off as true. Pathetic.

It boggles the mind that you participate on this board and lived through the last couple of years and still don't understand that we had an unprecedented level of mail in voting last election due to the pandemic. You assume it's voter fraud!!!! Unbelievable.

You really should spend less time linking articles and more time reading them.

 

[RedFishBlueFish]

Another liberal who doesn't have a clue as to what is in the voter's rights bill. This action is UNCONSTITUTIONAL as states control the elections and any voter's rights bill that takes away state power will be tested in the SC. The Constitution has to be amended to do that. We already have an Amendment to the Constitution which makes discrimination illegal. I cannot believe how civics challenged many on the left are and anything the left says is gospel and some will support.

Perhaps you should look at post #50 in this thread. Or perhaps you can explain why it is unconstitutional given that the constitution gives Congress authority to pass legislation on voting that overrides state law.

 

[Conservative]

Perhaps you should look at post #50 in this thread. Or perhaps you can explain why it is unconstitutional given that the constitution gives Congress authority to pass legislation on voting that overrides state law.

No, the Congress does not have the right to override state laws, the SC does. Where did you get your Constitutional education? For some reason far too many are civics challenged, buy the liberal rhetoric and ignore the Constitution. Can you explain to me why after 2020 elections this is the number one issue for the Democrats?

 

[Peacenik]

You're the one calling people fascist for wanting more bipartisan legislation and saying it is democracy dying if they disagree. Don't forget Republicans have 50 senators, Democrats have 48 and there are 2 Independents who happen to caucus with Democrats. Democrats don't even have a majority. They need the VP to cast a vote to split the tie.

I was speaking in general terms. That's quite a bit different than singling out one person. And it was meant in a definitive way. Not as an insult. How else to describe what is going on? The Republican state voting law changes are not bipartisan, not needed, and done for another purpose than what is stated. Republicans are only fooling themselves. Democrats can see what is going on. It's Jim Crow 2.0.

Republicans have voted for bipartisan legislation. Having Democrats write election takeover laws without allowing Republican input or $6 trillion social spending is too radical for the current Senate. Democrats need to come back down to earth if they want bipartisanship. Those Republican senators represent constituents who they believe do not want this hyper-partisan legislation.

That's not fascism. That's not democracy dying. That's government working as intended.

Good song. Thanks for posting that. An epic, and it's true. These new Bills are nothing more than the concepts contained in the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Republicans supported that in 2006. They make voting fair. 15 Republicans who voted to extend it then are now against the current version because the party has been taken over by an autocrat. Republicans are not allowed to vote their own decision. They either vote with Trump or their career is over. That is how it now works. We have seen that quite enough to know.

The Republican Party, or should I just go ahead and call it what it is, the Trump party, is in the process of election subversion. Every state Republican who upheld the rule of law and verified the 2020 election is being targeted by Trump for replacement with yes-men who will throw out results if Trump, or another Republican candidate willing to forward a Big Lie, doesn't win. That will officially signify the death of democracy. Call it fascism, call it autocracy, it won't be democracy if election losers are proclaimed the winner.

 

[Conservative]

I was speaking in general terms. That's quite a bit different than singling out one person. And it was meant in a definitive way. Not as an insult. How else to describe what is going on? The Republican state voting law changes are not bipartisan, not needed, and done for another purpose than what is stated. Republicans are only fooling themselves. Democrats can see what is going on. It's Jim Crow 2.0.



Good song. Thanks for posting that. An epic, and it's true. These new Bills are nothing more than the concepts contained in the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Republicans supported that in 2006. They make voting fair. 15 Republicans who voted to extend it then are now against the current version because the party has been taken over by an autocrat. Republicans are not allowed to vote their own decision. They either vote with Trump or their career is over. That is how it now works. We have seen that quite enough to know.

The Republican Party, or should I just go ahead and call it what it is, the Trump party, is in the process of election subversion. Every state Republican who upheld the rule of law and verified the 2020 election is being targeted by Trump for replacement with yes-men who will throw out results if Trump, or another Republican candidate willing to forward a Big Lie, doesn't win. That will officially signify the death of democracy. Call it fascism, call it autocracy, it won't be democracy if election losers are proclaimed the winner.

Why is this an issue now for the Democrats when they won the 2020 election and we had record turnout of voters? I can give you the answer but you will refuse to accept it due to partisanship and the acceptance of Democrat rhetoric simple due to loyalty to the D

 

[RedFishBlueFish]

No, the Congress does not have the right to override state laws, the SC does. Where did you get your Constitutional education? For some reason far too many are civics challenged, buy the liberal rhetoric and ignore the Constitution. Can you explain to me why after 2020 elections this is the number one issue for the Democrats?

No. You are wrong. See below.

"The Elections Clause is the primary source of constitutional authority to regulate elections for the U.S. House of Representatives and U.S. Senate. The Clause directs and empowers states to determine the “Times, Places, and Manner” of congressional elections, subject to Congress’s authority to “make or alter” state regulations. It grants each level of government the authority to enact a complete code for such elections, including rules concerning public notices, voter registration, voter protection, fraud prevention, vote counting, and determination of election results. Whenever a state enacts a law relating to a congressional election, it is exercising power under the Elections Clause; states do not have any inherent authority to enact such measures.

Although the Elections Clause makes states primarily responsible for regulating congressional elections, it vests ultimate power in Congress. Congress may pass federal laws regulating congressional elections that automatically displace (“preempt”) any contrary state statutes, or enact its own regulations concerning those aspects of elections that states may not have addressed. The Framers of the Constitution were concerned that states might establish unfair election procedures or attempt to undermine the national government by refusing to hold elections for Congress. They empowered Congress to step in and regulate such elections as a self-defense mechanism."

https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/interpretation/article-i/clauses/750

I ask you again. Can you support your argument that the voter rights legislation is unconstitutional? Oh, and BTW, how about supporting your statement that the U.S. Congress does not have the right to override state laws in regards to elections.

 

[Perotista]

My comment was in response to your post (#37) giving examples of Democratic gerrymandering and basically saying if the Democrats conduct gerrymandering they don't really support voting rights. But, allowing one party to gerrymander at will, while the other party does none and allows it to happen unchallenged, would create an unlevel playing field and put Democrats at a significant disadvantage. In putting forth legislation to ban gerrymandering the Democrats are saying we'll quit gerrymandering if they will such that we all play by the same rules.

You ask "why don't the Democrats propose this as a stand alone bill". I ask, why don't the Republicans? Can you give me recent examples of Republicans proposing anti-gerrymandering legislation?

The simple reason, neither party wants to do away with gerrymandering. Both major parties use gerrymandering to their advantage when they can. They howl like a stuck banshee when the other party does it to them. As I said, there isn't a holier than thou party out there. All are satanic and evil in my oipinion. Again, neither party will ever propose ending gerrymandering as a stand alone bill or legislation as neither party wants to do away with it.

 

[Conservative]

No. You are wrong. See below.

"The Elections Clause is the primary source of constitutional authority to regulate elections for the U.S. House of Representatives and U.S. Senate. The Clause directs and empowers states to determine the “Times, Places, and Manner” of congressional elections, subject to Congress’s authority to “make or alter” state regulations. It grants each level of government the authority to enact a complete code for such elections, including rules concerning public notices, voter registration, voter protection, fraud prevention, vote counting, and determination of election results. Whenever a state enacts a law relating to a congressional election, it is exercising power under the Elections Clause; states do not have any inherent authority to enact such measures.

Although the Elections Clause makes states primarily responsible for regulating congressional elections, it vests ultimate power in Congress. Congress may pass federal laws regulating congressional elections that automatically displace (“preempt”) any contrary state statutes, or enact its own regulations concerning those aspects of elections that states may not have addressed. The Framers of the Constitution were concerned that states might establish unfair election procedures or attempt to undermine the national government by refusing to hold elections for Congress. They empowered Congress to step in and regulate such elections as a self-defense mechanism."

https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/interpretation/article-i/clauses/750

That doesn't answer the question as to why this is a major issue for the Democrats now as they won 2020 with the election laws in place and there was record turnout for the 2020 elections. Although your post is accurate election laws have never been addressed by the SC and that is what is going to happen if this voting Rights law is passed

 

[RedFishBlueFish]

The simple reason, neither party wants to do away with gerrymandering. Both major parties use gerrymandering to their advantage when they can. They howl like a stuck banshee when the other party does it to them. As I said, there isn't a holier than thou party out there. All are satanic and evil in my oipinion. Again, neither party will ever propose ending gerrymandering as a stand alone bill or legislation as neither party wants to do away with it.

So, am I correct you are unaware of a Republican proposing legislation to eliminate (practically) gerrymandering? And am I correct that the Democrats are proposing legislation that will ban gerrymandering?

You seem to be caveating this by using "stand alone", but by doing so you avoid addressing my point. That the Democrats are proposing legislation to end gerrymandering, and the Republicans are just bitching with respect to that issue.

 

[rahl]

Another liberal who doesn't have a clue as to what is in the voter's rights bill. This action is UNCONSTITUTIONAL as states control the elections and any voter's rights bill that takes away state power will be tested in the SC.

the constitution explicitly states that congress can at anytime pass legislation pertaining to elections lol.

The Constitution has to be amended to do that.

no it doesn't. it's right in article 1

We already have an Amendment to the Constitution which makes discrimination illegal. I cannot believe how civics challenged many on the left are and anything the left says is gospel and some will support.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

No, the Congress does not have the right to override state laws, the SC does. Where did you get your Constitutional education? For some reason far too many are civics challenged, buy the liberal rhetoric and ignore the Constitution. Can you explain to me why after 2020 elections this is the number one issue for the Democrats?

There's more to the Constitution than just your interpretation of it.

You think the only things that are Constitutional are the those ideas which promote your own economic and political interests.

That's not legal scholarship, that's just called being self-interested.

 

[rahl]

No, the Congress does not have the right to override state laws, the SC does.

Article 1 section 4......................................

Section 4.​

The times, places and manner of holding elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each state by the legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by law make or alter such regulations, except as to the places of choosing Senators.

Where did you get your Constitutional education? For some reason far too many are civics challenged, buy the liberal rhetoric and ignore the Constitution. Can you explain to me why after 2020 elections this is the number one issue for the Democrats?

 

[RedFishBlueFish]

That doesn't answer the question as to why this is a major issue for the Democrats now as they won 2020 with the election laws in place and there was record turnout for the 2020 elections. Although your post is accurate election laws have never been addressed by the SC and that is what is going to happen if this voting Rights law is passed

I don't see much purpose in discussing this further with you. You came into this thread with a bombastic, and incorrect, statement that Congress does not have the right to override state laws. Then you implied that I am ignorant of civics and that I'm biased by liberal rhetoric and ignore the Constitution. Then when I prove you wrong, you deflect.

 

[Conservative]

So, am I correct you are unaware of a Republican proposing legislation to eliminate (practically) gerrymandering? And am I correct that the Democrats are proposing legislation that will ban gerrymandering?

You seem to be caveating this by using "stand alone", but by doing so you avoid addressing my point. That the Democrats are proposing legislation to end gerrymandering, and the Republicans are just bitching with respect to that issue.

Will never understand the issue of gerrymandering as again that never was an issue until the GOP Took Control of Congress in 1994, prior to that it was a political tool for the left. What I will never understand is the loyalty anyone has to a particular ideology that transcends policies, actions and results. I don't have a D or R tattoo on my head and always vote for issues not party. Doesn't seem to be the case with far too many. There isn't anything that today's Democrat Party has proposed or implemented that I support as that party is a long way from the JFK Democrat Party of "Ask not what your country can do for you" Stunning entitlement mentality being promoted today and that is what destroys democracy, no discipline, no personal responsibility, no pro private sector policies

 

[Conservative]

I don't see much purpose in discussing this further with you. You came into this thread with a bombastic, and incorrect, statement that Congress does not have the right to override state laws. Then you implied that I am ignorant of civics and that I'm biased by liberal rhetoric and ignore the Constitution. Then when I prove you wrong, you deflect.

I gave you a thumbs up on your post and yet now this from you? Why can't you answer a direct question? Why is this a major issue for the Democrats after the 2020 elections and record voter turnout? Stop buying the rhetoric and think for a change. This is all about Democrats retaining control and power at the mid terms as they believe they can get enough support to stay in power by making voting rights an issue, rights that exist now.

 

[yankintx]

Voter suppression is actually a diversion. Of course it is serious and voting should certainly be expanded, not further restricted. Voter fraud is nearly non-existent. Republicans are changing laws to favor the Republican party, it is clear.

The real danger is election subversion. Republicans are preparing to over-rule elections if Republicans don't win. They will simply disregard the results of the election if a Democrat wins, and instead select their own electors who will hand their electoral votes to the Republican candidate. Particularly if it is Trump in 24. The fascist takeover of the USA is under way.

Republicans will do whatever to remain in power, look at Jan 6 as an example.

 

[Conservative]

Republicans will do whatever to remain in power, look at Jan 6 as an example.

Keep ignoring the reality that it is 2 Democrats that are holding up the vote. Also keep ignoring that the Biden poll numbers are at 40% meaning that you believe you are right and 53% of the people wrong.

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Biden Job Approval

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Biden Job Approval

www.realclearpolitics.com

Cannot seem to get an answer to the question as to why this is a major issue today for the Democrats with the 2020 election results and record voter turnout.. So many other issues, Covid, Border, Inflation so diverting to this issue attempts to take the focus of the disaster the left helped put into office.

 

[Perotista]

So, am I correct you are unaware of a Republican proposing legislation to eliminate (practically) gerrymandering? And am I correct that the Democrats are proposing legislation that will ban gerrymandering?

You seem to be caveating this by using "stand alone", but by doing so you avoid addressing my point. That the Democrats are proposing legislation to end gerrymandering, and the Republicans are just bitching with respect to that issue.

I want gerrymandering ended, but not the rest of the junk in the bill that is being proposed by the the Democrats. stand alone has my backing. The rest is just an attempt by the party in power to legisltate themselves into being permanently in power. You want to end gerrymandering, make it a simple bill, a one issue bill. I'll support that. But I won't support any legislation designed to install one party or the othe in permanent control of our government.

I'm a big fan of divided government just to prevent what is being tried by the democrats. Can't guarantee their majority by fair elections, then legislate their majority when they have the power to do so.

 

[Cope]

The USA is hopelessly racist. ....

I agree with you sadly.

We probably think so for wildly differing reasons though. Stop dividing everything by race and race relations magically get better! Who knew?!

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

All the Democrats have done is engage in bad faith negotiations and insert poison pills and controversial bits into tomes of legislation so they can blame Republicans for not doing what Democrats promised and without even putting it to a vote. The constituent parts of this bill should be broken up into separate bills and voted on before anyone points fingers.

Yes, and no legislation should be passed unless a majority of the Republicans vote in favour of it either.

And, if wishes were horses then beggars would ride because

[1] If the Democrats were to bring forward legislation that was 100% guaranteed to totally wipe out illness, poverty, and discrimination in the United States of America, the Republicans wouldn't vote for it - and would most likely filibuster it to prevent it even being discussed.​

​

[2] If the Republicans were to bring forward legislation that was 100% guaranteed to totally wipe out illness, poverty, and discrimination in the United States of America, the Democrats wouldn't vote for it - and would most likely filibuster it to prevent it even being discussed.​

​

[3] If the Democrats took the Republican bill mentioned in [2] above and did nothing else to it but changed the name to "The Democrat Plan to Eliminate Illness, Poverty, and Discrimination in the United States of American" the Republicans wouldn't vote for it - and would most likely filibuster it to prevent it even being discussed.​

​

[4] If the Republicans took the Democrat bill mentioned in [1] above and did nothing else to it but changed the name to "The Republican Plan to Eliminate Illness, Poverty, and Discrimination in the United States of American" the Democrats wouldn't vote for it - and would most likely filibuster it to prevent it even being discussed.​

Your plan to break the bill up into smaller parts so that the Republicans will have more chances to prove that they will not support anything that the Democrats propose is simply needlessly compounding the problem.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

The artile didn't say, but the objection was breaking up a majority solid black district, perhaps 80-90% into basically thirds or something akin to that.

Would you like to bet that the lawsuit was filed by members of the political party which BENEFITED from the change?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I want gerrymandering ended, but not the rest of the junk in the bill that is being proposed by the the Democrats. stand alone has my backing. The rest is just an attempt by the party in power to legisltate themselves into being permanently in power. You want to end gerrymandering, make it a simple bill, a one issue bill. I'll support that. But I won't support any legislation designed to install one party or the othe in permanent control of our government.

I'm a big fan of divided government just to prevent what is being tried by the democrats. Can't guarantee their majority by fair elections, then legislate their majority when they have the power to do so.

You and some Democrats have the same position

​