Biden’s challenge to Mitch McConnell: Go ahead, burn the place down

[ataraxia]

You think voting to prevent a global economic crash by defaulting on our debt for the first time will hurt elections more than not preventing the crash?

Yeah I know what you're saying. That is all part of McConnell's genius: heads he wins tails they lose. At this point anything they do will make the GOP look good and they will use it to cudgel them in the midterms and in 2024. It's absolute genius (of course for the GOP, not the country as a whole. The nation can go to hell as far as he is concerned, if the GOP is not in charge).

 

[NolanVoyd]

If 100% of Democrats voted for it, then it would pass. The Democrats decided they were going to play hard ball after the election and not compromise with the Republicans or give the Republicans any voice in the government. So be it. Now that they have baked the cake, they need to eat it. If they cannot get their own party to vote for a budget, then they should probably ask themselves why?

Wow, that is some seriously twisted logic.

If a handful of Republicans dropped their partisanship and did the right thing it would pass.

But McConnell has them whipped into not doing it.

Everybody who does not vote for it is to blame.

Which means a couple of democrats are to blame and 100% of Republicans are to blame.

 

[jdog]

Wow, that is some seriously twisted logic.

If a handful of Republicans dropped their partisanship and did the right thing it would pass.

But McConnell has them whipped into not doing it.

Everybody who does not vote for it is to blame.

Which means a couple of democrats are to blame and 100% of Republicans are to blame.

There is no blame because the entire bill is detrimental to the nation to begin with. Government spending is out of control and needs to be cut by at least 50% to begin to get the country back on the right course.

 

[j brown's body]

There is no blame because the entire bill is detrimental to the nation to begin with. Government spending is out of control and needs to be cut by at least 50% to begin to get the country back on the right course.

The problem with this is that those in the majority of Congress and control the presidency want to do this. In a real liberal democracy, the "loyal opposition" respects the leaders' mandate to govern and negotiates a deal more to their liking. They don't try to sabotage the whole agenda. The Republicans are siding with tyranny over democracy.

 

[NolanVoyd]

This has nothing to do with "Mom!!!!!, Billy did it too!!!!" This is the reality that both sides play their petty games.

At the end of the day, the fact remains...the Dems could have dealt with the debt limit at any time in the past nine months. They have the power...the numbers.

But they didn't and, regardless their spin about Republicans, they are responsible for whatever happens.

False equivalence

 

[NolanVoyd]

the hell are you talking about? I know what the debt ceiling is, if you pay off your debt, the ceiling goes down... what we should be making cuts to do.

The debts I'm question are debts incurred under previous administrations.

Spending can be cut or revenue increased to lower future debt but we still have to pay the bills we've leads incurred.

Republicans are saying we aren't going to pay our bills.

If they get their way it will be a disaster.

 

[j brown's body]

He also said this:

“Republicans’ position is simple. We have no list of demands. For two and a half months, we have simply warned that since your party wishes to govern alone, it must handle the debt limit alone as well,”

Odd coming from a party that has been invited in to do a bi-partisan infrastructure deal. Short memories.

 

[j brown's body]

"Republicans are united in opposition to raising the debt ceiling."
-Mitch McConnell

I see that running in some campaign ads.

 

[Cope]

"On Monday, President Biden shocked the political world by refusing to promise that the battle over the debt limit will be resolved without the United States defaulting on its debts, which would unleash economic calamity. “No, I can’t,” Biden said, when asked whether he could guarantee resolution. “That’s up to Mitch McConnell.”

...Biden’s declaration sets up the possibility for an endgame to all this that Republicans might not have anticipated. If this continues, it will soon become overwhelmingly clear that Republicans face a stark choice: Either they drop their filibuster, or we default.

if Democrats hold firm, we could soon find ourselves in a situation in which Democrats have no option of using reconciliation anymore. If so, at that point, the choice for Republicans will be incredibly stark: Either they stop filibustering, or we default. All the game-playing will fall by the wayside. No matter how many times McConnell disingenuously pretends he only wants Democrats to handle this themselves while Republicans block this from happening, and no matter how many times McConnell is credulously portrayed as a savvy operator for doing so, as the days tick down to Armageddon, that will be his choice."

Link

Interesting scenario playing out. it could lead to some filibuster reform.

The Democrats have an option, the Republicans hope they use it so they CAN'T use it to pass a bill that wouldn't pass under regular status.
Politics, like making your opponent use one of their timeouts.

I doubt it gets to a default.

 

[jdog]

The problem with this is that those in the majority of Congress and control the presidency want to do this. In a real liberal democracy, the "loyal opposition" respects the leaders' mandate to govern and negotiates a deal more to their liking. They don't try to sabotage the whole agenda. The Republicans are siding with tyranny over democracy.

It is the responsibility of every member of Congress to vote their own conscience, and to represent the interest of their State, and their constituents. Not to be the "leaders" what ever the hell that is. Loyal to what, the tyrants? Perhaps you have never heard, but in America, we do not have leaders, we have public SERVANTS.

 

[j brown's body]

"All or nothing" would be a severe blunder. Biden will straighten it out. If he can't, then I'll probably be voting NOTA for however many cycles I have left.

Progressives are not a majority. They should try being humble for a change.

And yes, I'm all for trying new things, just not so much all at once. Let's first see if we can get the rich to pay.

This is pure ignorance. The new things are neglected things. The cost is negligible. You have been hoodwinked.

 

[j brown's body]

It is the responsibility of every member of Congress to vote their own conscience, and to represent the interest of their State, and their constituents. Not to be the "leaders" what ever the hell that is. Loyal to what, the tyrants? Perhaps you have never heard, but in America, we do not have leaders, we have public SERVANTS.

The problem with this, and it goes along with the GOP embracing tyranny over democracy, their "constituents are limited to their supporters. They are not the same thing. And their constituents, as well s their supporters, stand to gain quite a bit from this bill.

Its about power. That's what appeals to tyrants.

 

[NolanVoyd]

I know what it is. It caps how much money the Treasury can borrow and it’s supposed to be a deterrent to deficit spending. Instead it’s been raised over 60 times because of Congress can’t stop itself.

So the right question is what you think would happen to your family’s finances if you just keep increasing the credit limit on your credit cards instead of controlling your spending and paying your bills.

You have it all wrong.

It has nothing to do with future spending or revenue.

It is about paying the bills we have already incurred.

We can cut future spending and/or raise future revenue. Great. But we can't do it after the money has already been spent.

We still have to bay the bills we have already incurred to avoid financial disaster.

 

[Michael Cole]

This is pure ignorance. The new things are neglected things. The cost is negligible. You have been hoodwinked.

Lol. Sure thing, bud.

I'm a "show me" kinda guy. Lip won't get you in the door.

 

[j brown's body]

Do you understand basic civics? The Dems are trying to pass it via regular order in order to force support from the GOP. They can very easily skip that and go to reconciliation.

I'm getting lectured on civic by a guy who doesn't understand the filibuster.

The GOP should vote for it. As the Dems did when the GOP was last in control.

 

[jdog]

The debts I'm question are debts incurred under previous administrations.

Spending can be cut or revenue increased to lower future debt but we still have to pay the bills we've leads incurred.

Republicans are saying we aren't going to pay our bills.

If they get their way it will be a disaster.

So, the 3.5 in new spending, is actually debt incurred by previous administrations..... More lies.

 

[Cope]

You have it all wrong.

It has nothing to do with future spending or revenue.

It is about paying the bills we have already incurred.

We can cut future spending and/or raise future revenue. Great. But we can't do it after the money has already been spent.

We still have to bay the bills we have already incurred to avoid financial disaster.

That doesn't change the dynamic though. It is about fiscal constraint.
Look it up if need be, stop spending what you cannot pay for.
That is what the centrists want, FISCAL CONSTRAINT from both major parties.

 

[Craig234]

Yeah I know what you're saying. That is all part of McConnell's genius: heads he wins tails they lose. At this point anything they do will make the GOP look good and they will use it to cudgel them in the midterms and in 2024. It's absolute genius (of course for the GOP, not the country as a whole. The nation can go to hell as far as he is concerned, if the GOP is not in charge).

I think it's just wrong, that the Democrats won't 'look bad' by passing the increase in reconciliation except to the Republican base who hate them.

 

[Cope]

I'm getting lectured on civic by a guy who doesn't understand the filibuster.

The GOP should vote for it. As the Dems did when the GOP was last in control.

Why, they don't want to. They want to force the Dems to use reconciliation so that the danger is past for using in on the 3.5 T bill.

 

[j brown's body]

That doesn't change the dynamic though. It is about fiscal constraint.
Look it up if need be, stop spending what you cannot pay for.
That is what the centrists want, FISCAL CONSTRAINT from both major parties.

Fiscal constraint is not a concern for the vast majority of American people. The GOP is living in the past. Like the pre-Trump era, when the deficit exploded under Republican rule.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Honestly, this narrative is getting about as worn out as the narrative about the socialism bill being free and paid for.

You don't like facts?

 

[Cope]

Fiscal constraint is not a concern for the vast majority of American people. The GOP is living in the past. Like the pre-Trump era, when the deficit exploded under Republican rule.

Yes, it explodes under most major political party rule, which is exactly why grid lock is best to the centrist and independents.

 

[j brown's body]

Why, they don't want to. They want to force the Dems to use reconciliation so that the danger is past for using in on the 3.5 T bill.

Indeed. It has nothing to do with the debt ceiling and everything to do with preventing the party in power from legislating and winning power.

I don't think its going to work out for the GOP.

 

[Craig234]

It is the responsibility of every member of Congress to vote their own conscience, and to represent the interest of their State, and their constituents. Not to be the "leaders" what ever the hell that is. Loyal to what, the tyrants? Perhaps you have never heard, but in America, we do not have leaders, we have public SERVANTS.

Boy, sorry to say but I think you really don't know how it works, especially on the Republican side. You're talking about an idealized version where big money doesn't own the system - you're describing progressives. To others, to Republicans, voters are just like the suckers are to con men, the 'marks', not the important people.

 

[Cope]

Indeed. It has nothing to do with the debt ceiling and everything to do with preventing the party in power from legislating and winning power.

I don't think its going to work out for the GOP.

I personally don't like reconciliation, as an option, at all. So I see nothing wrong with the forced usage of it.