Biblical Canon

[calamity]

OK, I'm on record here as saying the Bible is BS, a book of fiction that maybe passes the smell test of a historical novel at best. The characters within the fictional work are highly exaggerated, if they even existed at all.

Others say, the Bible is the word of god. But, it's not. It's just words written by men, approved by other men who put together the book from edited versions of old scrolls.

So, one might ask. How did these words meet approval?

A biblical canon or canon of scripture is a set of texts (or "books") which a particular Jewish or Christian religious community regards as authoritative scripture.

These canons have developed through debate and agreement on the part of the religious authorities of their respective faiths and denominations. Some books, such as the Jewish–Christian gospels, have been excluded from various canons altogether, but many disputed books are considered to be biblical apocrypha or deuterocanonical by many, while some denominations may consider them fully canonical. Differences exist between the Hebrew Bible and Christian biblical canons...

Clear as mud, right?

Seriously. What is this screening process of which they speak, and how reliable is it?

 

[Rumpel]

What is this screening process of which they speak, and how reliable is it?

I would say it is less reliable than any weather forecast.

 

[Evilroddy]

OK, I'm on record here as saying the Bible is BS, a book of fiction that maybe passes the smell test of a historical novel at best. The characters within the fictional work are highly exaggerated, if they even existed at all.

Others say, the Bible is the word of god. But, it's not. It's just words written by men, approved by other men who put together the book from edited versions of old scrolls.

So, one might ask. How did these words meet approval?


Clear as mud, right?

Seriously. What is this screening process of which they speak, and how reliable is it?

Calamity:

The screening process was done first by leaders of the Jewish Faith and then almost a thousand years later by leaders of the Early Christian Faith in order to impose orthodoxy on a corpus of chaotic and multidirectional written and artistic traditions, after the fact. These were exercises in power, not programmes designed to enhance historical reliability or to foster diversity of belief within each of these faiths. That said, there is a remarkable amount of verifiable historical commentary in the Bible. However to see the whole picture, as best as anyone can, you must go beyond the approved texts and semi-approved texts and you must plough through a huge corpus of ancient literary and artistic material. Most folks have neither the interest, nor the time, nor the skill, nor the means to do so. So the vetting processes based on securing orthodoxy still stand, despite their many shortcomings.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy the heretic.

 

[Somerville]

Calamity:

The screening process was done first by leaders of the Jewish Faith and then almost a thousand years later by leaders of the Early Christian Faith in order to impose orthodoxy on a corpus of chaotic and multidirectional written and artistic traditions, after the fact. These were exercises in power, not programmes designed to enhance historical reliability or to foster diversity of belief within each of these faiths. That said, there is a remarkable amount of verifiable historical commentary in the Bible. However to see the whole picture, as best as anyone can, you must go beyond the approved texts and semi-approved texts and you must plough through a huge corpus of ancient literary and artistic material. Most folks have neither the interest, nor the time, nor the skill, nor the means to do so. So the vetting processes based on securing orthodoxy still stand, despite their many shortcomings.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy the heretic.

Russell Gmirkin published a book titled, Plato and the Creation of the Hebrew Bible, that has caused some 'discussion' among Bible scholars as he argues that the Old Testament we know today didn't exist until the 3rd century BCE. The Codex Sinaiticus being dated to the early years of the 4th century CE would show that the gap is not quite a thousand years.

Russell Gmirkin​

His 2006 book called Berossus and Genesis, Manetho and Exodus: Hellenistic Histories and the Date of the Pentateuch was one of the first to discuss specific Greek sources used by the biblical authors. His latest book, Plato and the Creation of the Hebrew Bible, identifies Plato’s Laws as perhaps the most influential such Greek text, a source for many of the Laws of Moses and for the very notion of an approved national literature (the Bible).

Some of the key innovations found in Gmirkin’s writings include the identification of the authors of the Pentateuch (Genesis–Deuteronomy) as the same group of Jewish scholars that tradition said translated these books into Greek for the Great Library of Alexandria around 270 BCE; the model of a collaborative composition of the Pentateuch by Samaritan and Jewish legislators, storytellers, poets and priests under official governmental oversight and direction; the identification of various late Greek sources by the biblical authors, including Plato (350 BCE), Manetho (285 BCE), Berossus (278 BCE) and others; and the model of the creation of the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament as an ethical national literature assembled and approved according to directions laid out in Plato’s Laws.

 

[Daisy]

Sometimes the canonicity of small books such as James, Jude, Second and Third John, and Second Peter is questioned on the grounds that these books are quoted very little by early writers. However, they make up all together only one thirty-sixth of the Christian Greek Scriptures and were therefore less likely to be referred to. In this connection it may be observed that Second Peter is quoted by Irenaeus as bearing the same evidence of canonicity as the rest of the Greek Scriptures. The same is true of Second John. (The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. I, pp. 551, 557, 341, 443, “Irenaeus Against Heresies”) Revelation, also rejected by some, was attested to by many early commentators, including Papias, Justin Martyr, Melito, and Irenaeus.

The real test of canonicity, however, is not how many times or by what nonapostolic writer a certain book has been quoted. The contents of the book itself must give evidence that it is a product of holy spirit. Consequently, it cannot contain superstitions or demonism, nor can it encourage creature worship. It must be in total harmony and complete unity with the rest of the Bible, thus supporting the authorship of Jehovah God. Each book must conform to the divine “pattern of healthful words” and be in harmony with the teachings and activities of Christ Jesus. (2Ti 1:13; 1Co 4:17) The apostles clearly had divine accreditation and they spoke in attestation of such other writers as Luke and James, the half brother of Jesus. By holy spirit the apostles had “discernment of inspired utterances” as to whether such were of God or not. (1Co 12:4, 10) With the death of John, the last apostle, this reliable chain of divinely inspired men came to an end, and so with the Revelation, John’s Gospel, and his epistles, the Bible canon closed.

The 66 canonical books of our Bible in their harmonious unity and balance testify to the oneness and completeness of the Bible and recommend it to us as indeed Jehovah’s Word of inspired truth, preserved until now against all its enemies. (1Pe 1:25)

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000880

 

[calamity]

Sometimes the canonicity of small books such as James, Jude, Second and Third John, and Second Peter is questioned on the grounds that these books are quoted very little by early writers. However, they make up all together only one thirty-sixth of the Christian Greek Scriptures and were therefore less likely to be referred to. In this connection it may be observed that Second Peter is quoted by Irenaeus as bearing the same evidence of canonicity as the rest of the Greek Scriptures. The same is true of Second John. (The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. I, pp. 551, 557, 341, 443, “Irenaeus Against Heresies”) Revelation, also rejected by some, was attested to by many early commentators, including Papias, Justin Martyr, Melito, and Irenaeus.

The real test of canonicity, however, is not how many times or by what nonapostolic writer a certain book has been quoted. The contents of the book itself must give evidence that it is a product of holy spirit. Consequently, it cannot contain superstitions or demonism, nor can it encourage creature worship. It must be in total harmony and complete unity with the rest of the Bible, thus supporting the authorship of Jehovah God. Each book must conform to the divine “pattern of healthful words” and be in harmony with the teachings and activities of Christ Jesus. (2Ti 1:13; 1Co 4:17) The apostles clearly had divine accreditation and they spoke in attestation of such other writers as Luke and James, the half brother of Jesus. By holy spirit the apostles had “discernment of inspired utterances” as to whether such were of God or not. (1Co 12:4, 10) With the death of John, the last apostle, this reliable chain of divinely inspired men came to an end, and so with the Revelation, John’s Gospel, and his epistles, the Bible canon closed.

The 66 canonical books of our Bible in their harmonious unity and balance testify to the oneness and completeness of the Bible and recommend it to us as indeed Jehovah’s Word of inspired truth, preserved until now against all its enemies. (1Pe 1:25)

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000880

It's still only a collection of myths that some men deemed special. Right?

 

[Exquisitor]

OK, I'm on record here as saying the Bible is BS, a book of fiction that maybe passes the smell test of a historical novel at best. The characters within the fictional work are highly exaggerated, if they even existed at all.

Others say, the Bible is the word of god. But, it's not. It's just words written by men, approved by other men who put together the book from edited versions of old scrolls.

So, one might ask. How did these words meet approval?


Clear as mud, right?

Seriously. What is this screening process of which they speak, and how reliable is it?

It's still only a collection of myths that some men deemed special. Right?

I tend to avoid the equation; is God.

The Bible is Earth memorabilia.

The Bible is our record of Christ and it has a cosmic and fictional beginning.

The Garden of Eden is a vision of the three worlds that any priest may see and we see that they saw it in great detail.

Although it could be the Scripture causes the vision. Could be, you never know, but it seems likely that the vision exists independently of the Scriptures and causes them, not the other way around.

Can't tell if Daniel was real, either it is a first hand account, or there was no one like Daniel and in shame they wove their prophesies into a story. Where did the potency go?

Samuel read the record before him and wrote a fictional love story Ruth and began his record.

Big things are going on, Earth has just the right size, water, Moon, Sun, Continents, India, America, Avatars and Teachers appear according to Isaiah 41, 42 and Convergences according to Revelation chapter six and Daniel 12:7 and 9:27.

The Beast, Antichrist and False Prophet have been wounded and are here among other personalities.

The Bible is a pretty cool book, but I wouldn't count on the common interpretation.

Tribulation Theory

Tribulation Theory: At the White Horse Tribulation 2020-2026, 2030.5, the first Seal is prominent in the coronavirus. Five Convergences occur in the ten-thousand year Golden Age...

www.azapizzazz.com

 

[calamity]

I tend to avoid the equation; is God.

The Bible is Earth memorabilia.

The Bible is our record of Christ and it has a cosmic and fictional beginning.

The Garden of Eden is a vision of the three worlds that any priest may see and we see that they saw it in great detail.

Although it could be the Scripture causes the vision. Could be, you never know, but it seems likely that the vision exists independently of the Scriptures and causes them, not the other way around.

Can't tell if Daniel was real, either it is a first hand account, or there was no one like Daniel and in shame they wove their prophesies into a story. Where did the potency go?

Samuel read the record before him and wrote a fictional love story Ruth and began his record.

Big things are going on, Earth has just the right size, water, Moon, Sun, Continents, India, America, Avatars and Teachers appear according to Isaiah 41, 42 and Convergences according to Revelation chapter six and Daniel 12:7 and 9:27.

The Beast, Antichrist and False Prophet have been wounded and are here among other personalities.

The Bible is a pretty cool book, but I wouldn't count on the common interpretation.

Tribulation Theory

Tribulation Theory: At the White Horse Tribulation 2020-2026, 2030.5, the first Seal is prominent in the coronavirus. Five Convergences occur in the ten-thousand year Golden Age...

www.azapizzazz.com

It's an incredible collection of myth blended into the historical lifestyle of one particular people living in an ancient time. Of course, once we consider that they were not the ONLY people living at that time, the Bible loses a lot of its power. After all, there is no logical reason for God to choose a tribe in the middle east over one in southeast Asia or various islands in the Pacific or budding civilizations in the Americas.

It's not like the Mediterranean region was the only place where people did great things. But, it could be argued that the ancient Sumerians probably deserve more credit than anyone else. But, they didn't get the nod from god.

 

[Exquisitor]

It's an incredible collection of myth blended into the historical lifestyle of one particular people living in an ancient time. Of course, once we consider that they were not the ONLY people living at that time, the Bible loses a lot of its power. After all, there is no logical reason for God to choose a tribe in the middle east over one in southeast Asia or various islands in the Pacific or budding civilizations in the Americas.

It's not like the Mediterranean region was the only place where people did great things. But, it could be argued that the ancient Sumerians probably deserve more credit than anyone else. But, they didn't get the nod from god.

Israel is the navel of the planet. India contains the pituitary and pineal glands and the lobes of the brain are Russia and China the heart extends through America and the Alps, the anus is Mecca.

The raising up of Israel from Jericho as a people for Christ is totally logical.

No other people came up with churches, hospitals, science and Democracy like the Christians.

 

[Rumpel]

It's not like the Mediterranean region was the only place where people did great things. But, it could be argued that the ancient Sumerians probably deserve more credit than anyone else. But, they didn't get the nod from god.

The ancient Sumerians were great people!
They invented beer!

Who invented wine, btw?

 

[calamity]

Israel is the navel of the planet. India contains the pituitary and pineal glands and the lobes of the brain are Russia and China the heart extends through America and the Alps, the anus is Mecca.

The raising up of Israel from Jericho as a people for Christ is totally logical.

No other people came up with churches, hospitals, science and Democracy like the Christians.

Native American tribes had democracy. The Greeks weren’t exactly slouches in the math and sciences. And, long before Christians discovered quaint concepts like freedom of religion, they burned people at the stake.

 

[Rumpel]

The Beast, Antichrist and False Prophet have been wounded and are here among other personalities.

Methinks you have read too much in that Book of Revelation, which I find totally disgusting.

 

[calamity]

Methinks you have read too much in that Book of Revelation, which I find totally disgusting.

It's ok as long as we keep in mind that it is a work of fiction.

 

[code1211]

OK, I'm on record here as saying the Bible is BS, a book of fiction that maybe passes the smell test of a historical novel at best. The characters within the fictional work are highly exaggerated, if they even existed at all.

Others say, the Bible is the word of god. But, it's not. It's just words written by men, approved by other men who put together the book from edited versions of old scrolls.

So, one might ask. How did these words meet approval?


Clear as mud, right?

Seriously. What is this screening process of which they speak, and how reliable is it?

If you have faith, you don't need proof. If you have proof, you don't need faith.

I've always been impressed that religion exists in all societies. You may comfort yourself by having faith or rejecting faith. It's really your choice. Until something changes the conditions of the consideration for you.

If that happens, then you may try to describe that change that you can feel to another. If you do, you will use descriptions familiar to yourself.

What is familiar to any individual will change based on the level of technology in his society, his language, his social customs, literary traditions and previous religious training and on and on.

The Washington Times indicates that 84% of the people in the world hold religious beliefs.

I'm amused that people seem committed to the idea that EVERYONE must share the beliefs they hold. Even those who hold the belief that no beliefs should be be held.

Along with liking religion, people seem to like being a part of the herd. I suppose religion is one of the herds of which people like to be a part.

 

[calamity]

If you have faith, you don't need proof. If you have proof, you don't need faith.

I've always been impressed that religion exists in all societies. You may comfort yourself by having faith or rejecting faith. It's really your choice. Until something changes the conditions of the consideration for you.

If that happens, then you may try to describe that change that you can feel to another. If you do, you will use descriptions familiar to yourself.

What is familiar to any individual will change based on the level of technology in his society, his language, his social customs, literary traditions and previous religious training and on and on.

The Washington Times indicates that 84% of the people in the world hold religious beliefs.

I'm amused that people seem committed to the idea that EVERYONE must share the beliefs they hold. Even those who hold the belief that no beliefs should be be held.

Along with liking religion, people seem to like being a part of the herd. I suppose religion is one of the herds of which people like to be a part.

I've had several experiences that made me think about changing my mind...and, I am sure some of it has changed as a result.

 

[Rumpel]

It's ok as long as we keep in mind that it is a work of fiction.

Well, there is good fiction and there is bad fiction.
Another reason, why I do not like that "Revelation":
Fundamental Christians love it and use it as a source for all kind of silly conspiracy theories.
For them that bad beast with 10 horns stands for the European Union.
Not nice!

 

[calamity]

Well, there is good fiction and there is bad fiction.
Another reason, why I do not like that "Revelation":
Fundamental Christians love it and use it as a source for all kind of silly conspiracy theories.
For them that bad beast with 10 horns stands for the European Union.
Not nice!

Likely the real beast was the Germanic Tribes standing at the Empire's gates.

 

[Rumpel]

Likely the real beast was the Germanic Tribes standing at the Empire's gates.

Three cheers for the Germanic tribes!

 

[Daisy]

Likely the real beast was the Germanic Tribes standing at the Empire's gates.

Which beast? Revelation speaks of several...there is the 7-headed wild beast, the 2-horned wild beast, and the image of the wild beast...

 

[calamity]

Which beast? Revelation speaks of several...there is the 7-headed wild beast, the 2-horned wild beast, and the image of the wild beast...

There were "several" Germanic Tribes.

 

[Daisy]

There were "several" Germanic Tribes.

Nope, we're talking about the beasts of Revelation, which have more of a reference for our day...not ancient tribes...

 

[calamity]

Nope, we're talking about the beasts of Revelation, which have more of a reference for our day...not ancient tribes...

lol...Revelation was not written for "our day." That's ridiculous.

 

[Daisy]

Ok, just keep s

lol...Revelation was not written for "our day." That's ridiculous.

Ok, just keep spreading your myths/lies about German tribes...

 

[calamity]

Ok, just keep s

Ok, just keep spreading your myths/lies about German tribes...

Nonsense. The authors and its adherents have been expecting the apocalypse for two thousand years. It's the end result of people living in despair, hoping for the end times and better things to come.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3141381?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents

That's why I always say it is important to think. sheesh.

 

[Daisy]

Nonsense. The authors and its adherents have been expecting the apocalypse for two thousand years. It's the end result of people living in despair, hoping for the end times and better things to come.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3141381?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents

That's why I always say it is important to think. sheesh.

lol...